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Is that a good idea? / Ist das eine gute Idee? / C'est une bonne idée ?
Yes (Write what could develop positively) / Ja (Schreib, was sich positiv entwickeln könnte) / Oui (Écrivez ce qui pourrait évoluer positivement)
Atys: Gidget, Jahuu, Kaetemi, Luminatrix, Yper		 5
20.8%
No (write what would be wrong with it) / Nein (Schreib, was falsch daran wäre) / Non (écrivez ce qui ne va pas avec)
Atys: Aleeskandaro, Fyrenor, Bradbreddan, Dukenono, Hayt, Lacuna, Mermaidia, Naveruss, Revvy, Sinvaders, Sowen, Syron, Timna, Vauban		 14 (4)
58.3%
Other thoughts (write it down) / Andere Gedanken (Schreib es auf) / Autres pensées (écrivez-les)
Atys: Agy, Balkhog, Heernis, Placio		 4
16.7%
Other
Atys: Dorothee		 1
4.2%
Abstain 8
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#107 Added by Sinvaders 6 years ago [fr] 

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Or just go and talk to Lore team members. They can give you some input as well about it.

#108 Added by Moniq 6 years ago [en] 

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@Gidget

I already said all and your latest reply is as expected. You put words in my mouth, keep skipping between topics while you did not answer me yet. Thus I still don't know, what you actually fight for...

This failed.

#109 Added by Gidget 6 years ago [en] 

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Revvy
Unfortunatly the Lore about Marauders (nomads tribe) is not yet entirely published (and i doubt it will be released, im not even sure Lorist know what to do with this faction anyway..)

Honestly, I'd like to see it. But it does make think that if they don't know what to do with the faction anyway, they may want to watch how the players play and see if their observations lead to inspirations.


Moniq
@Gidget

I already said all and your latest reply is as expected. You put words in my mouth, keep skipping between topics while you did not answer me yet. Thus I still don't know, what you actually fight for...

This failed.

Your latest reply is as expected too; I expected you to be a bit rude, a bit confused, and try to make me out to be an idiot simply because you are unwilling to accept the answer I gave to the question you asked.

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Do not assume that you speak for all just because you are the loudest voice; there are many who disagree that simply have no desire to waste words on you.

#110 Added by Sinvaders 6 years ago [en] 

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Gidget
Revvy
Unfortunatly the Lore about Marauders (nomads tribe) is not yet entirely published (and i doubt it will be released, im not even sure Lorist know what to do with this faction anyway..)

Honestly, I'd like to see it. But it does make think that if they don't know what to do with the faction anyway, they may want to watch how the players play and see if their observations lead to inspirations.

Yes and no.
Players are the one who are making a faction alive ... but players needs to be drive to do so. If you don't give background to the players they will do, well, whatever they want.
Hopefully for us, there is working group for the marauder gameplay which include devs,lorist as well as players. (and we mainly know whats going on with resurrection because we asked for not being dependent on high powers for it as marauders are independent for teleportation(it has been rejected as you can guess)).

Yes: because asking players what they want for the "new" fresh faction make just sense.
No: because what players ask for as to be coherent with the existing world and lore.

I truly hope they know where they are going with the marauder faction.


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To talk about neutral: I also fail to see advantages for them. But freedom as a cost I believe. To me it makes sense to not allow neutral to use high level teleport pact as the kamis/kara most likely reserve this to they "real supporters/followers". They do not want to provide it to homins not aligned with them. (in my head it makes sense).
Now people not willing to be kara/kami/marauder are going to the ranger faction because they do want access to PR and 250 zones. I do not talk about trytonist here because 1) they are not really neutral 2) they are hiding themself in others faction on purpose.

#111 Added by Kaetemi 6 years ago [en] 

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Sinvaders
I truly hope they know where they are going with the marauder faction.
Hopefully down the garbage chute, and we get a proper implementation of ALL of the tribes instead. (You know, that thing where tribes fight over control of various areas of Atys.)

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Kaetemi

#112 Added by Gidget 6 years ago [en] 

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Sinvaders
Players are the one who are making a faction alive ... but players needs to be drive to do so. If you don't give background to the players they will do, well, whatever they want.
Driving players too hard will lead to backlash. It's better to make people want to join a faction than the current system where many players feel they have no choice beyond which of the four factions they join.
Sinvaders
No: because what players ask for as to be coherent with the existing world and lore.
True, there are ways to be consistent with both other than "Ma'Duk and Jena are all that could ever exist!!!1111". I could go on a loooooooong theological digression about Agnosticism but I doubt it would have the slightest effect on Atys/Ryzom no matter how high a percentage of the server population agreed.
Sinvaders
To talk about neutral: I also fail to see advantages for them. But freedom as a cost I believe. To me it makes sense to not allow neutral to use high level teleport pact as the kamis/kara most likely reserve this to they "real supporters/followers". They do not want to provide it to homins not aligned with them. (in my head it makes sense).
I see the logic behind that position, but disagree that that is a good way to go about it. The 250/PR TPs are simply so highly valued that withholding them from Neutrals inevitably leads to factions full of folks that really don't want to be there. We've both seen enough "Kami/Kara just for the TP" players to know that.
Sinvaders
Now people not willing to be kara/kami/marauder are going to the ranger faction because they do want access to PR and 250 zones.
My observations are that Ranger/Mara are generally more for those that actually want to join those factions because the effort (300 points of fame grind) required is far greater than for K/K (40-80 points).

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Do not assume that you speak for all just because you are the loudest voice; there are many who disagree that simply have no desire to waste words on you.

#113 Added by Fyrosfreddy 6 years ago [en] 

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Gidget

Fyrosfreddy - I did not mean to argue against what you said, merely express skepticism that your words would matter to those who refuse to change their thinking no matter how many facts or how much logic is used. To them, the Lore that was written 15 + years ago is inviolable and immutable....

It would appear that we are violently in agreement with each other in this respect.

If you are celebrating something start planning an event at your favorite restaurant and then as you make your invitation list, you realize that the people you wanna invite include

31 folks will eat anything
11 don't eat red meat but eat chicken
9 don't eat red / white meat
3 are vegan
4 have gluten allergies
2 have nut allergies

Do you stick with a restaurant you like best ? Or you pick a restaurant that can accommodate all the people who you want to be there.

If a bunch or Aqua-people and sea creatures were to appear ... is that a dead idea because it's not mentioned in the lore ? A few strokes of the pen (or strikes on a KB) could solve that in an hour.

So with Rangers being, by far, the fast growing faction ... if it's between keeping the lore and keeping the player base, the lore has go to evolve. And that goes both ways. If someone wants to be a ranger and wants to PvP, I am not a fan of restricting that option because of "lore". Guilds of course have a right to decide whether that is what they are going to be about, but game mechanics should not.

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#114 Added by Revvy 6 years ago [en] 

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I still can't believe the direction taken here.
They created a faction just to throw it to trash for years, and instead put all their effort to create a new faction(lol?) that came randomly from an event.
(I abuse with randomly/event, but you got it).

Make no sense really to put so much effort in not finishing anything.
Thanks to the new ARK the new-new faction did grow faster at least, and wasn't throw to trash like Marauder.

Fyrosfreddy
So with Rangers being, by far, the fast growing faction ... if it's between keeping the lore and keeping the player base, the lore has go to evolve. And that goes both ways. If someone wants to be a ranger and wants to PvP, I am not a fan of restricting that option because of "lore". Guilds of course have a right to decide whether that is what they are going to be about, but game mechanics should not.

True, nothing exclude a Ranger to attack another Homins.

This is just the common idea lately, that if you are a Ranger you should be a saint :P
Violence you will know only against your foe kittins and nothing else.

Ranger are Homins, Homins are violent and this nature itself create conflicts.

Remind me of this Ranger guild accepting an Outpost with all the consequence and clicking on Neutral the day they had to defend it.... im still laughing.

The legend don't tell if it is because of the option "Neutral" or by real ideology.

Last edited by Revvy (6 years ago)

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Spoiler

#115 Added by Sinvaders 6 years ago [en] 

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Revvy
Remind me of this Ranger guild accepting an Outpost with all the consequence and clicking on Neutral the day they had to defend it.... im still laughing.

It's just because they think that they deserves pieces of the cake without having to put effort into it. (they are willing to get stuff from PvP content without PvP).

#116 Added by Revvy 6 years ago [en] 

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Sinvaders
It's just because they think that they deserves pieces of the cake without having to put effort into it. (they are willing to get stuff from PvP content without PvP).

It seem to be the tendency yes.

I can access everything, for free without any implication of my part because I'm neutral;
I deserve it.

Anyway :)

Last edited by Revvy (6 years ago)

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Spoiler

#117 Added by Gidget 6 years ago [en] 

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Revvy - Thank you for supporting the argument that Ryzom was never meant for play by those outside the country it was developed in; that any attempt at appealing to other markets is seen as a flaw.

Sinvaders - Not really. But I can see how those who have a "Might makes right" attitude would prefer an RPG where there's a faction with that same attitude as a central tenet. And it's no surprise such players would seek to have the mechanics altered such that their preferred play style is given preferential treatment, or that those folks would accuse others of what they themselves are guilty of.

It amuses me that some folks are bent out of shape over an OP being obtained via RP instead of PvP. Maybe those folks are in the wrong genre? This isn't 2006; there's plenty of MOBAs out there for them. Look at what happened on Arispotle when PvP became a thing and remember that you share a server with folks like that. Folks who think "Neutral" is, by definition, an open-minded lack of bias.

If people can't respect their differences, they cannot respect people who are different. As one who believes in reciprocity, I feel those folks deserve any disrespect they get;actions have consequences.

Edited 3 times | Last edited by Gidget (6 years ago)

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Do not assume that you speak for all just because you are the loudest voice; there are many who disagree that simply have no desire to waste words on you.

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