Reading some of the latest threads the following sentences have come to my attention and motivated me to start this topic.

While I, and surely many others will agree this is currently the case, I would like us all to try and point out what changes do you think would make PvP more attractive. If you have never experienced it, think about what would make you give it a try and post it here. Feel free to post your ideas about "attitude changes" and also "mechanic" changes you would like to see.

Please refrain from commenting how much you hate Pvp unless you're providing your justification and how/what needs to change to change your mind. Keep your posts respectful, constructive and discuss with Niveau. Troll or off topic comments, as well as personal attacks are discouraged, and CSR moderation will be sought after otherwise.

My point of view

I have played many years and enjoyed the different modes of PvP at different points of my Atys life, at countless OP battles, during friendly tag PvP events, tournaments, treks through PvP areas, supernodes... All of which have enriched my player experience and given me very nice memories and shared moments with friends and foes. All of these experiences had in common one that, regardless of whoever was my opponent, the main objective was always to have fun, mutual participation was always clear and respect was always of utmost importance.

Somehow though, the notion of play with X has been replaced by play to disrupt X , that being one of the most important aspects that demotivate Pvp interactions.

Aditionally, current rewards from PvP (PvP points, supremes, robes) are little to nothing compared with those one can receive through PvE game activities, when, in reality, PvP rewards should be Über gear and not easily overcome without effort.

So let me know what you think needs to change, perhaps a solid Idea for Ryzom can come out of this.



Here's a nice memory for you ;)
Elvanae at PvP tournament

I personally enjoy SN and OP wars. Because those have a point, an objective. It actually gives me a reason to fight others other than just wanting to fight others. It also involves large amounts of players, which means there is at least a little bit of a strategy and teamwork aspect I can enjoy.

I think the fundamental issue of the PvP tag is that it's just kind of...pointless. It doesn't really offer anything that other PvP modes don't do already. The previously mentioned SN and OP wars cover larger scale PvP battles over an objective. If you just want to duke it out with a bunch of friends, you can simply go to the arena. Want to duel a friend for fun? Just invite them to a duel. Unless you're a roleplayer who includes PvP in their RP, there really is no reason to ever tag up.

While I agree with PvP rewards not being interesting enough, I'd be very, very careful with this. Making PvP gear the top tier gear to trump anything else would be a huge mistake. I remember playing WoW, where, at the time, PvP gear was better even for PvE than any PvE gear. That led to every PvE player having to grind battlegrounds like crazy. And trust me, there is no better way to make someone who already isn't too keen on something absolutely hate it than forcing them to do it. It also ruined the BGs for the people who were there to have fun in PvP. Besides, if it provides too much of an advantage over people who don't have it yet, making it too hard for them to beat people who do have it, it will just discourage many from even trying.Therefore, sure, make PvP gear that's buyable with points the best gear for PvP, but don't overdo it, please.

As for what to do with the PvP tag to make it actually worthwhile, I'm hard-pressed to think of anything. My best idea would be themed events like raids on cities. All the players who want to participate would tag up, then join leagues on either the defending or the attacking side. The objective would be to maybe reach a specific building within the city or possibly kill an NPC. This would however possibly prove quite problematic due to the disparity in player numbers across different factions.

TL;DR: I agree that something needs to be done, I just don't really know what.

One key thing here is to understand that there are a lot of different reasons why one will/won't PvP, and (more importantly) respect those differences. Without mutual respect, nobody's mind will be changed. Many of the motivations I've seen in others are things I personally could not care less about.

Factions? I play games to get away from those who use flags or religions as an excuse for violence, so why would I do something I'm trying to get away from in-game? If you find fighting for gawd or country fun then you do you, but don't expect me to share your enthusiasm. Maybe if the notion of "faction" were changed to account for the reality of so many alliances crossing traditional lines, I might change my thinking on this one though.

Fun? I'm too goal-oriented to have fun fighting just for the sake of fighting. Again, if you find it entertaining then go ahead and PvP any consenting player you want, but unless I've had a bad day at work and feel the need to stab people in the head repeatedly for purely cathartic reasons, I prefer more concrete rewards.

Speaking of rewards though, that's a bit dicey. Right now the PvP rewards are a skirt, a shield, and some crystals that I can buy with occupation points. There needs to be more incentive than there is. And the point costs are pretty high too, so it feels a bit grindy when you consider how few opportunities there are to earn PvP points without farming your own alts. Mastering a craft seems less tedious by comparison! That said, I concur with Luminatrix' WoW experience. I watched another game I loved die a horrible death from players feeling forced into PvP due to a severe mismatch in the rewards between PvP and PvE. (It didn't help that many PvP players wanted the devs to delete any and all PvE content despite the fact that PvE players were >80% of the server population...) When Luminatrix says, "Don't overdo it.", I can't help but think of what lead to the demise of that other game, and how much I would rather not lose another enjoyable game the same way.

Objectives? Now we're talking! I personally do most of my PvP-ing for a goal, usually a shared goal that involves teaming with at least 4 other players to accomplish; OPs or Sups. So maybe we need more to fight over. And I don't mean artificial measures such as reducing the number of Sups that come up at season change or that bosses drop either. Somehow, I doubt that I am the only "results oriented" player that doesn't fight for greed or glory.

Another thought; between Silan barely mentioning PvP at all and most PvP-ers being multi-masters, new players are not really introduced to PvP, and really have no chance at winning until they've already played long enough to get so comfortable with PvE that they feel no real desire to PvP. Maybe with earlier introductions to PvP and more favorable ones than getting ROFLpwned, more new players will be interested in PvP.

I was tagging up 24/7 because in my old guild everybody tagged up. It was fun in a group and it just stayed as habit.

What it really yielded was ganking while digging, ganking while doing nameds/bosses, ganking while trekking, ganking while afking. Sometimes I ended up in a fight where I won, but since the attacker was usually nationalist, with opposing nation -100 fame, I never got any PvP points.

Add up that you cant heal around vortex or TP's like untagged, it's just lots of negative sides with sap crystals as reward. I rather get mah crystals by crafting for others, perhaps adding some RP in the mix of "mysterious marauding crafter that nobody ever sees in cities", appearing when the usual crafters dont have enough craft levels =D

Whenever there is PvP tournaments or similar going on tho, I wont hesitate to join! They are so much fun, 6v6 we had once was one of the coolest memories I've had in Ryzom! Also some SN's have been great fun, whack whack, then dig dig ^^