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IDEAS FOR RYZOM
Should we change to faction based PVP?
Yes, change the deathmatch PVP to faction PVP!
Atys: Cotare, Heernis, Jellona, Kaetemi, Kaylerys, Lacuna, Luminatrix, Mermaidia, Revvy, Sinvaders, Sowen, Tomstato, Vorazun		 13
48.1%
No, it makes no sense.
Atys: Aleeskandaro, Bazett, Eolinius, Jorgensen, Kurutani, Placio, Wirroy, Yper, Zendae		 9
33.3%
No, we are too few, there will be no PVP anymore!
Atys: Yuritau		 1 (1)
3.7%
Other thoughts (Please write it down)
Atys: Gidget, Maiyr, Victoriacamper		 3 (1)
11.1%
Other
Atys: Vanixia		 1
3.7%
Abstain 6
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#37 Added by Revvy 5 years ago [en] 

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Luminatrix
Revvy
Luminatrix
Pardon me if I'm wrong but, from what I have heard, the Karas are now massively outnumbered, which is why some Kara guilds have alligned themselves with some Marauder guilds. Basing PvP on factions alone would put them at a severe disadvantage, surely?

I really like the idea of taking it a step further and allowing alliances to come into play. Faction politics can be really fun and exciting in general, as long as the people participating are reasonable enough.

What I don't like is the idea of being punished for helping someone from a different faction. I'm one of those dreaded carebears who just wants to make friends and help others. I have always found restrictions in other games that locked me out of creating a toon in the other faction (Aion) or didn't let me talk to players from different factions. Those limitations achieve exactly nothing besides being annoying and inconvenient.

The magic of Ryzom, Alliance still work if you are in team or league, or not tag ! :)

I didn't make what I meant clear. Here's what I meant: due to the sheer numbers of the Kami, a Kara would be statistically way more likely to be attacked by a hostile faction then a Kami. Unless we somehow magically cause the factions to be balanced in numbers, I think this would be quite annoying.

Lumi, you are thinking in a case where Atys is full PvP which is not the case.
Actually just a few players are PvP tag, the whole topic apply only if you are PvP Tag.

A Kara will not be attacked by 100 Kamis, since only a few Kami (not to say 0 kami) are tag.

You got it? :)

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#38 Added by Heernis 5 years ago [en] 

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Namcha
As I wrote in "is pvp rp", I think to solve this, one should always pay consequences of its acts : lose/win fraction of fame each time you exchange, gain xp with, rez, an enemy/ally. (so a scope not only focused on pvp act)

something like 0.05 per act is enough to loose your 100%. But in detail, like pvp points calculation, the amout could be weighted by the gap between your fame and the other guy one's.

If the actual PVP-System should stay, there have to be some improvements. The idiom: "Try new ideas, but dont leave good traditions". The old system was quite good, but restricted. So its not the real freedom most players want here. But in freedom there are always consequences for their acts. I like the idea of namcha loosing fame by killing own people i.e. Kami kills a Kami. So the one who kill loose fame on kamis. But also gain fame by killing Mara or Karavan as Kami would work as well. Just 0,1 Fame or lower maybe would be enough.

Another idea would be loosing dappers. Lets say 1-10% randomly of the dappers you have in you bag or maybe also faction points, you earned yourself at about 1-10% of the points you have randomly.

If you are in team with someone and support the one, who kills other, will also get the half of the dappers and factionpoints.

Or lets say it is only PVP-Points. Then the stolen PVP-Points have to be lower than the getting PVP-Points i.e.

Or loot one item in bag randomly, which is not locked?

The idea could be tested in a PVP Event?

Freedom means also having consequences for the acts. When you kill others in the actual "factional PVP" it would have more meaning by earning or loosing something except getting PVP-Points. And to be clear, i am talking only about "Free-for-Tag" factional PVP.

But in the end, it can be also abused. The CoC is strict when it comes to PVP. No idea in that point, what could come.

There should be also something to protect very new players from this. So it should not possible to be tagged until you reach 25 fame negative or positive. This behavior in PVP Regions like lands of umbra or nexus shouldnt be implemented in my opinion. Maybe if the players are habituated with this gameplay. For treks there is allways the option not go through ToT.

Maybe this idea is worth to make a new thread.

Edited 6 times | Last edited by Heernis (5 years ago)

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#39 Added by Gidget 5 years ago [en] 

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Heernis
Another idea would be loosing dappers. Lets say 1-10% randomly of the dappers you have in you bag or maybe also faction points, you earned yourself at about 1-10% of the points you have randomly.
The 1-10% figure is obvious a placeholder, but I like the idea of certain actions costing more than fame enough that I feel this idea is worth leaving mostly as-is and discussing details. Since some folks wander around with tens/hundreds of millions of dappers and tens of thousands of points, a penalty as high as 10% would de a [i]de facto[/b] ban in actual practice as the affluent would be loathe enough at the prospect of losing more dappers in one fight than some homins see in a year to simply refrain. As I doubt that that is the intended effect of such a penalty, it may be best to scale it down about tenfold. Just food for thought :)

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#40 Added by Revvy 5 years ago [en] 

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Yeah not bad restriction like, but how you explain your lose of money RP wise ?
For fame its obvious, but money?

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#41 Added by Victoriacamper 5 years ago [en] 

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Fame is not so obvious, since you attack a homin and normally not the representative of a government or faction (unless its an npc), and they don't even know your name because they never ask you, so a random homin bandit gets negative fame (you know it as a player, your character doesn't).

Dappers seem legit.

You can loot everything else you kill, why not take some of the wealth from your victims?

Possibly too abstract for some but we will see.

Last edited by Victoriacamper (5 years ago)

#42 Added by Revvy 5 years ago [en] 

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Victoriacamper
Fame is not so obvious, since you attack a homin and normally not the representative of a government or faction (unless its an npc), and they don't even know your name because they never ask you, so a random homin bandit gets negative fame (you know it as a player, your character doesn't).
As stated by Namcha (Lorist) you may be seen on a battlefield, or lost fame with your friends watching / supporting you etc.
Its not only a matter of recognizing the face of an Homin.
Victoriacamper
Dappers seem legit.

You can loot everything else you kill, why not take some of the wealth from your victims?

Possibly too abstract for some but we will see.

This is a good idea yes legit, but it implies we will all be thief.

Which may not be good for everyone.

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#43 Added by Victoriacamper 5 years ago [en] 

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I don't see it as tief, rather as trophy for your kill.

[deleted]


Nevermind. Lets stay on dappers.

Also wanted to say, losing points doesn't make much senses to me, since its such an abstract concept, not something one can claim of you?

Edited 3 times | Last edited by Victoriacamper (5 years ago)

#44 Added by Victoriacamper 5 years ago [en] 

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Revvy
As stated by Namcha (Lorist) you may be seen on a battlefield, or lost fame with your friends watching / supporting you etc. Its not only a matter of recognizing the face of an Homin

Applies for OPs and large scale battles but what about 1v1 and 2v2 situations when theres usually noone else around?

Last edited by Victoriacamper (5 years ago)

#45 Added by Revvy 5 years ago [en] 

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Victoriacamper
Also wanted to say, losing points doesn't make much senses to me, since its such an abstract concept, not something one can claim of you?

Yes i agree, also NPC should be lootable somehow, but still; that dappers idea may not be good for everyone as pointed out (Trophy / Thief etc).

But gameplay related, it could be good to have a reward and ofc a take down in case of bad action (which depends on the PoV).

In the actual Atys its interesting but not enough yes, lets say a marauder gain +10 fame in Tryker doing an action against marauder.. he just have to come at FH, click the NPC 20times and its done he's back to -100.

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#46 Added by Namcha 5 years ago [en] 

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@Victoriacamper

Hello,
Yes It could be strange to have a impact on fame when you did something in secret.

But maybe someone did see you, or maybe heard about it later ?

In fact, if you were really taken red-handed your fame would drop for 30 points ! don't you think ?

In what I've described, fame would decrease very little by little, reflecting the feeling given by your global action. Sometime someone would have seen you, sometimes not. Who knows? Fame is a kind of "rumor".

It cannot be fully realistic, but the goal is to encourage players to behave more according to their faction. Maybe the 100% will be harder to keep. But to pretend to 100%, shouldn't you be totally devoted to your faction without any fault ?

Edited 2 times | Last edited by Namcha (5 years ago)

#47 Added by Azazor 5 years ago [en] 

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Il y a plusieurs façon de changer sa fame, et la plupart ne sont pas très RP. Mais il y a aussi pleins d'actions RP que l'on fait qui n'ont aucune influence sur notre fame et qui pourtant devraient en avoir une.
Un exemple: j'insulte le roi matis. En jeu, ça ne change pas ma fame. Et pourtant, ça devrait valoir à mon personnage d'être banni à vie du royaume.

Je peux comprendre qu'on veuille rendre cohérent la fame avec nos actions du point de vue gameplay (ex: baisse de fame dans une faction si on tue quelqu'un de la dite faction). Mais d'un autre côté, c'est aussi à nous de mettre en adéquation notre réputation avec notre comportement.
Par exemple, j'ai cliqué plein de fois sur le pnj donnant la citoyenneté matis pour baisser ma fame à -100 afin d'être plus cohérent avec la fame que devrait avoir mon personnage, même si RP parlant, ça n'a aucun sens. Mais si je ne l'avais pas fait, j'aurai à peine une fame à -50 chez les matis, ce qui ne serait pas très cohérent pour un personnage qui passe son temps à les insulter.

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#48 Added by Placio 5 years ago [en] 

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Namcha
It cannot be fully realistic, but the goal is to encourage players to behave more according to their faction. Maybe the 100% will be harder to keep. But to pretend to 100%, shouldn't you be totally devoted to your faction without any fault ?

Okay, maybe a rework of the pvp point scoring could be more punitive against mortal enemies teaming up, currently opposing fames on the same team cancel each other out, but unfortunately that was not what this post was about- although in spirit it wants more clear cut faction divisions, that could be done by modifying the already existing rewards.

#49 Added by Namcha 5 years ago [en] 

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@Placio
in fact I was describing a idea that would have a impact not only on pvpers.

It's rare "mortal enemies" teams up, except on OP, which are currently out of pvp scoring.

The idea is more to put consequences on little acts like teaming with enemies on daily things (exchange, hunting...)

Not something that will drop fame to the abyss. But losing max fame could be already a serious matter. (could be easily retrieved with missions, but, if every days....)

@Azazor : you're right many roleplayers work on their fame to have it consistent with their behavior. Should we give power to event team to affect individuals' fames for those who might not be coherent ?

Edited 3 times | Last edited by Namcha (5 years ago)

#50 Added by Sinvaders 5 years ago [en] 

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Namcha
@Placio
@Azazor : you're right many roleplayers work on their fame to have it consistent with their behavior. Should we give power to event team to affect individuals' fames for those who might not be coherent ?

I am not Azazor, but definitely YES !

#51 Added by Heernis 5 years ago [en] 

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Revvy
Victoriacamper
Dappers seem legit.

You can loot everything else you kill, why not take some of the wealth from your victims?

Possibly too abstract for some but we will see.

This is a good idea yes legit, but it implies we will all be thief.

Which may not be good for everyone.

I guess to prevent implying that all PVP-Chars there are "thiefs", there should be also a "loot-window" where you can accept to loot or not. Then it is the choice of the player, if he wanna be a bad guy or a good guy.

Edited 2 times | Last edited by Heernis (5 years ago)

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