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Refused
Do you think this is a good idea?
Yes, it is a good idea pretty much as is 3
9.1%
Yes, it's a nice idea but could use a bit of polish 3
9.1%
No, but I have an idea that I think could work 1
3.0%
No, I think there is no problem so this is not needed 8
24.2%
No, I think Around is the RP channel even though many others disagree 15 (3)
45.5%
Other 3
9.1%
Abstain 5
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#31 Added by Revvy 6 years ago Multilingual 

Multilingual | Français | [English]
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How complicated you guys are really... :)

Adding 2 lines in a channel at the connection and this is the tragedy of the century, I am really disappointed to see the communities so juvenile.

You remind me of childrens fighting over a lollipop when there's a full pack right next to it, because "it's mine!"....

But I understand better why Ryzom hasn't progressed for a long time, if all the ideas, however simple they may be, drag on in debate for months to reach something completely different at the end ^^

If it would have been added without your notice, you would have thought it was a great idea.
Please no lies, be real.


The goal was also to get the new player to hear the word Roleplay, to have familiarity with it from the very beginning, certainly not to be obliged to do so.
As a result, in addition to having the benefit of officially preventing and informing, there could have been vocations created, and desires.
So possibly a new breath for Ryzom, through education, not obligation.

Looking for a Roleplay tag in an obscure game configuration, and we move away from the basic idea for our young players (and old.. it seem..).


Gidget, Your behavior is very worrying, especially regarding your obsession with my forum posts.
Not to mention your non-neutral voting choices, as well as your twists and turns on all my subjects, it is a flagrant example of this reality.

And I hope people will have the decency to realize it.

[EDIT] Non-constructive comment.


Now I let you all discuss this subject, which has become so complicated, moving away from the idea that you have decided to bury yourself.

Where the goal is no longer to simply help, prevent and inform, in order to live better together... but to isolate, and mark the players as different.

This is your world Gidget, not mine, and I leave it to you with pleasure.

Many players play a role in the game through extremism, and therefore are detestable as a choice.
But you... You don't play a role, and I have to admit it scares me.

The ideas you convey are extremist and encourage the difference, IRL this time... its not a role.

(I would therefore not vote, since the proposed choices are clearly not neutral, and are oriented towards your own person, which is quite disappointing).


Thank you.

Edited 3 times | Last edited by Tamarea (6 years ago)

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Spoiler

#32 Added by Craftjenn 6 years ago [fr] 

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Zarden
+1 pour le tag RP qui donne une couleur différente en alentours : ça laisse chacun libre de ses choix et rend sans équivoque que la personne fait du RP. Peut-être avec un pop up la première fois que le joueur l'active, expliquant en quelques lignes à quoi il sert? Le même genre de pop up qui apparait la première fois qu'on se connecte en chat UNI; ce pop up étant assez inattendu je suis certain que tout le monde l'a lu!

(#TROLL-ON Et il faudrait ajouter un timer de 24 sur ce tag car le RP, ce n'est pas une chose à faire à moitié hihi ♥ #TROLL-OFF )
+1on se relaxe, on respire... Y a de la place pour tous, Atys est immense :p

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Mon profil sur le wiki Francais

https://fr.wiki.ryzom.com/wiki/Utilisatrice:Craftjenn


Craftjenn, Ranger

#33 Added by Neira 6 years ago [en] 

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Gidget
It seems that some folks like to use Around strictly for RP while others like to use it to chat (often OOC) with un-teamed homins in the immediate vicinity without the hassles of making teams or leagues that dissolve as soon as the conversation is over. And that has led to a bit of conflict between those who have differing views on what Around is really for.

I'm not quite sure how anyone couldn't just form a cohesive, grammatically correct sentence. Because that's literally all that's needed to have it pass for being RP (even if it's not intented as such).

So instead of trying to come up with even more complications for the game, rather teach people some basic linguistic skills maybe?

#34 Added by Luminatrix 6 years ago [en] 

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Mithian
@Gidget

That's the point, i'm not RPing rn since.... Forum isn't RP ( Except dedicated part of it... ) so, your argument is quite.. unlucky :P

And... Don't try to say something like " Yeah, if i don't RP, that's because of RPers behavior. " You don't RP because you don't like to or just because that's not the way you want to play. And that's the same for at least 90% of the non RP players.

Maybe some rejected RP because they had bad experience of it, but most just don't care.

Maybe with an explanation of different kind of RP and habits... Some would maybe understand it and like to learn it, but, that's on an another topic.

It's interesting that you apparently know what thoughts I had around 5 years ago. Back when I was completely new to the game, I was willing to dabble in RP but the role players I encountered were so awful that it made me go "okay yeah no thanks".

I've never done RP in an MMO before. But I'm an avid D&D player so I'm no stranger to the concept. I'd be up for dipping my toes into Ryzom RP to see if I like it. But, despite the fact that you refuse to believe it (again, apparently you can read my thoughts but...you need glasses), I am once again turned off by the condescending, patronising attitude of the role players I have run into. I'm not saying the entire RP community is like that (I'm sure most of them are lovely people) but the attitude of some is more than enough to make me steer clear and keep my roleplaying to D&D.

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Luminatrix

Explorer, storyteller, universalist, fighter for freedom and equality.

"Without contraries, there is no progression" - William Blake

#35 Added by Placio 6 years ago [en] 

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[EDIT] Non-constructive comment.

Last edited by Tamarea (6 years ago)

#36 Added by Gidget 6 years ago [en] 

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@Revvy - Once again, I feel that 2 lines, no matter how well-intended, is insufficient.  [EDIT] Non-constructive comment.

Your lollipop analogy amuses me; lets roll with it. From my perspective, there have been so many people grabbing my lollipop for years while shoving their lollipop in my mouth and telling me to stop touching their lollipop.

Oh, and I do play a role. I am the one who does what others will not, whether it be clearing a path down the ramp in Great Outback wearing nothing but skivvies and a grin so that squishies may continue their trek to Zora, or pointing at the elephant in the room and saying, "Isn't it time we talked about this?". I am the one who gets people to think, whether it be educating the young or shaking the old from their hidebound complacency. I am not any of the traditional archetypes and don't fit into a conventional mold though, so I can see why you don't understand the role I play.

Lastly, I don't exactly encourage differences so much as simply acknowledge them, try to respect everyone's right to individuality, and seek compromise even if that means stripping one side of privilege for the sake of equity. I want us all to get along as players even if our characters are in conflict, but that requires all sides to give a little.

@Sinvaders - Maybe that was a poor choice of phrasing, but I've seen a minority think they are a landslide majority simply because they're obnoxiously loud often enough to feel the need to remind folks that there's more to demographics than merely how much you scream.

@Neira - For largely the same reason I feel Revvy's 2-line idea is not a real solution.

@Mithian - We actually agree more than I have time to elaborate on right now. I spent so much time on Revvy that I'll have to get back to you after work.

Edited 4 times | Last edited by Tamarea (6 years ago)

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Do not assume that you speak for all just because you are the loudest voice; there are many who disagree that simply have no desire to waste words on you.

#37 Added by Neira 6 years ago [en] 

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Gidget
@Neira - For largely the same reason I feel Revvy's 2-line idea is not a real solution.

This hardly provided any further information (comparable to the opening post of this thread).
I'm not going to work my way through the pages of this thread where one might be able to find additional information as to what your point of view may or may not be just because the opening post failed to make an argument on its own.

Additional channels will just separate the already small community more.
Segregation as by your idea stands against a marginal amount of decency if we're following @Revvy's proposal.

You're either supporting segregation or believe people are too illiterate and wilfully disruptive to have the tact adjusting their posting manners in an appropriate way.
Take your pick.

Last edited by Neira (6 years ago)

#38 Added by Naveruss 6 years ago Multilingual 

Multilingual | Français | [English]
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I’m really misunderstanding now…
Someone is proposing to prevent, and now another one is proposing to isolate RP player. Why? Does RP to much noticeable? Does to many means are used for RP development, interaction and event?
Seriously, I’m asking if it a true proposal or just a joke… The separate RP server idea made by Dukenono is as credible…
Let’s talk about all that arguments:
- “RP player want to monopolize the around channel for RP only then there aren’t any convention for that.” No, RP player just want to add two poor line for prevent that around channel MAYBE use for RP interaction.
- "How it seems to me is that there is a very vocal contingent who feels that anyone who uses the Around channel for not-RP is "doing it wrong", and there is a misconception that somehow RPers are more privileged/entitled than non-RP "peons".” As you’ve said, this concern a noisy minority. Thanks to don’t make amalgam.
- “RP player are a minority, why make so much efforts for them?” NO SHIT Sherlock! 90% of RP player have quit the game next to the merge, because all of their fun have been destroy!

Finally, as this thread seem to be a sophism party, I’ll conclude my post by a argumentum ad personam to you Gidget: As well you’ve said, you’re playing at unconventional hours, so your point of view is probably bad, why would we listen you…?

Last edited by Tamarea (6 years ago) | Reason: Edit to add language tags.

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#39 Added by Magez 6 years ago [en] 

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Neira
Gidget
@Neira - For largely the same reason I feel Revvy's 2-line idea is not a real solution.

This hardly provided any further information (comparable to the opening post of this thread).
I'm not going to work my way through the pages of this thread where one might be able to find additional information as to what your point of view may or may not be just because the opening post failed to make an argument on its own.

Additional channels will just separate the already small community more.
Segregation as by your idea stands against a marginal amount of decency if we're following @Revvy's proposal.

You're either supporting segregation or believe people are too illiterate and wilfully disruptive to have the tact adjusting their posting manners in an appropriate way.
Take your pick.

Hmm don't remember which topic is was (since we been hopping between a few) but someone said they liked the idea of a link to a RP explanation/guide that would tell someone talking in OOC to move 20m away when there were people RPing in around, which is by itself segregation. Therefor separate channels would make valid sense.

Not related to the above quote:
An analogy, 3 countries.
Ryzom is Russia, RP is England, OOC is China.
While visiting Russia as a tourist, RP want OOC to learn English while in Russia so they can speak English undisturbed/unharassed by OOC speaking Mandarin.
Which could be swapped around, Teach RP to speak OOC. (i can feel the outrage)

I'm fine with a message like i said before but more neutral like:
"This channel is heard by those 'Around' you, be mindful of each others style of play and be respectful"
"This link will show you various examples of how communication is used in Ryzom"
The link would then go to a page describing regular respectful behavior, event examples, rp examples, various ingame terms (OP, Rite, TP, Dig, etc etc)

Will it be displayed every login, like Gmotd? or rather in a warning window like Uni? Additionally have a position in tutorial.

Last edited by Magez (6 years ago)

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#40 Added by Sinvaders 6 years ago [en] 

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Gidget
@Sinvaders - Maybe that was a poor choice of phrasing, but I've seen a minority think they are a landslide majority simply because they're obnoxiously loud often enough to feel the need to remind folks that there's more to demographics than merely how much you scream.

It's just a matter of perception. In my own experience there is more people using around channel for RP than the one using it for HRP (and it's reflected by Revvy's poll in another topic).


And +1 Naveruss, there is nothing else to say. Really sad to see the game as it is right now (RP wise) when you know it was sell as an roleplay game with a rich Lore ... haha

#41 Added by Jellona 6 years ago [en] 

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[EDIT] Removed because answering to a moderated comment.
Gidget
Lastly, I don't exactly encourage differences so much as simply acknowledge them, try to respect everyone's right to individuality, and seek compromise even if that means stripping one side of privilege for the sake of equity. I want us all to get along as players even if our characters are in conflict, but that requires all sides to give a little.
....read what you have written on this thread, please. Then read again what you wrote right here.
Maybe you don't do it on purpose but I see zero seeking for compromise and lots of personal conflict [EDIT] Part of the sentence moderated.
Post this same idea with a more neutral approach and maybe the message would come through in the way you wanted.
This suggestion was posted as a whim and it seems rather illogical that you see it anyhow comparable with this.

I also invite you to compare the views of Roleplay part of forum and for example this one.
[EDIT] Unuseful personal comment.

Last edited by Tamarea (6 years ago)

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#42 Added by Gidget 6 years ago [en] 

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I have a few minutes during lunch so lets address a couple things while I wait for my food...
Naveruss
As well you’ve said, you’re playing at unconventional hours, so your point of view is probably bad, why would we listen you…?
What you call "unconventional", I call "primetime for West Coast US". Ryzom is a global game with one server shared by folks all over the world. By calling my point of view bad, you are basically saying that you feel that anyone who is not in your time zone is somehow less than you. Respect is a two-way street, and if you will not respect others, why should others listen to you? Take a step outside yourself for a moment, get a little perspective, and think what you would do if the situation were reversed and you were the one whose opinion was invalidated for arbitrary reasons.

Also, I feel that your talk of sophism is a bit of projection on your part, though admittedly that may just be my frustration at having people attribute to me positions I do not hold.
Sinvaders
It's just a matter of perception. In my own experience there is more people using around channel for RP than the one using it for HRP
Precisely so! Like I said elsewhere, Ryzom was a totally different game when I worked night shift. I am not surprised our experiences differ. I simply want to see if we can rectify that.

[EDIT] Removed because answering to deleted comments.

Delivery is here.... food now!

Last edited by Tamarea (6 years ago)

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Do not assume that you speak for all just because you are the loudest voice; there are many who disagree that simply have no desire to waste words on you.

#43 Added by Jellona 6 years ago [en] 

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[EDIT] Removed because answering to deleted comments.

Last edited by Tamarea (6 years ago)

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#44 Added by Naveruss 6 years ago [en] 

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@Gidget

Of course, my last point wasn’t serious, just a sophism example (as I’ve said) because I’m tired to see all bad arguments against the RP.
I’m not here to disrespect you or anybody. And it’s probably not noticeable, but I’m trying to understand all point of view, and I’m expecting that everybody can understand the point of view of most RP player: We don’t want to impose our way of play, we just ask to respect our way of playing the game without being rejected.
We aren’t here for conflict or “segregation” but for get fun together.

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#45 Added by Bitttymacod 6 years ago [en] 

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[EDIT] Removed because answering to deleted comments.

For instance, right now the Around Tab displays a message whenever you log in. What is it? Many (most?) of us don't know because we use Around channel from the User Tab so we never see it.

I don't want to see Around restricted in any manner. That's my take on it. Informational statements are not a problem (unless I get them *every time* I hit /s , in which case it would be annoying).

Last edited by Tamarea (6 years ago)

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Remembering Tyneetryk
Phaedreas Tears - 15 years old and first(*) of true neutral guilds in Atys.
(*) This statement is contested, but we are certainly the longest lasting.
<clowns | me & you | jokers>
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