Should we have a separate Roleplay channel? - Refused

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#16 Added by Gidget 6 years ago [en]

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Jellona

To Gidget:

Lets imagine we have a separate RP-channel as you suggested. I log in this game for the first time and start my journey on Atys.
I finally end up in the same area with some roleplaying folks who use emotes (that still work in around as I guess you'd still want to see your waves there).
They don't seem to communicate as they are talking on the separate roleplaying channel that I have no idea of.
I just see the emotes and silent homins walking around or standing doing nothing.

Lets note that I have never tried roleplay before so I don't even realize it exists here.

How will I learn to know that such form of playing exists?
How do I learn to understand that the seemingly afking players are actually having lots of fun that I might greatly enjoy if tried?
How would this separate roleplaying channel save me from confusion when I bump into homins from my own faction and I don't seem to understand their way of playing the faction play?
How would this separation of the "so tight and helpful and nice community" be beneficial for us in any, I mean any way?

If you don't understand something the most primal instinct is fear -> hate.
So let's fix it by spreading information, not hiding it even more.
I'm sorry you had to experience so many issues with roleplay but I don't think those past bad experiences should be carried to the new generations and brought up over and over again.
That is not the Ryzom the new players want to learn to know.

That is actually the most valid disagreement I have seen on any issue in a long time, and also exactly the sort of constructive criticism I am looking for! Thank you for finding a flaw in my proposal and making a merit-based argument against it!

But if a separate RP channel wouldn't work, and there are serious enough doubts about the effectiveness of Revvy's proposal to doubt that that is the answer, then what's the answer? We still need to find a solution though. Maybe flip it around and have an OOC channel? Or, as was proposed elsewhere, have an RP flag that alters your text to make it easy to differentiate RP from OOC in Around?

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Do not assume that you speak for all just because you are the loudest voice; there are many who disagree that simply have no desire to waste words on you.

#17 Added by Revvy 6 years ago [en]

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Doesn't matter dude, just chill and relax a bit, adding 2 lines won't destroy your Ryzom, and can do good (or do nothing at all - but at least we tried).

Not to mention it is easier than reworking the whole channels, DEV's really need to fix other things than this, we will agree.

Also to clarify (for you, Luminatrix and some others), i invite you to re-read my post again carefully.
We never asked nor forced roleplay into around channel, its just a message of information.. you can still use the channel the way you want.

Also this should be written (the message) by the CM of Ryzom at the very least, to be neutral and prevent any confusion.

(CM is Communication Manager, for people who do not know).

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Spoiler

#18 Added by Magez 6 years ago [en]

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Placio

I don't think that person A saying something OOC prevents person B from RPing, unless they are specifically harassing that person which is a seperate issue. For example if I ask Gidg, "hey what type of car do you drive?" she can say the make and model or say I have no idea what you are talking about you drink too much Plac.... And if person C is also a RP'er and overhears the conversation they can say/think those people have a funny way of talking... That is roleplaying- not demanding that the game mechanics are changed so people can only speak a certain way. You could even encourage or point someone in the right direction.

off-topic but need to be said:

So if you come across someone asking something OOC you will respond in RP, and keep talking RP untill that person joins you in RP.

so basically:
PersonA needs to convert or read a RP manual to cater to your needs or f-off.
and not:
PersonB can answer the question or explain like an adult that he doesn't talk about Rl related stuff ingame

Rant:
How dare PersonA try to get to know me and form a bond a friendship over possible mutual interests.

Related On-topic:
RP: we don't want to be bothered by people asking Rl stuff in the mids of our RP, BUT we do want all our jibber jabber to be on full display to non-RP people.

very one way street stuff.

Edit:
Sorry but the more i read the more negative view i get of RP. We should all calm down and think of a solution that will resolve issues from BOTH sides, not only 1.

Edited 5 times | Last edited by Magez (6 years ago)

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#19 Added by Gidget 6 years ago [en]

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Revvy

...adding 2 lines won't destroy your Ryzom, and can do good (or do nothing at all - but at least we tried).

I had simply hoped that we could find something a bit better than the digital equivalent of a sticky note that won't be read. Good intentions are nice, but I'm pragmatic enough to prefer results. However, I also prefer minor good results with no downside over more effective solutions with drawbacks.

Magez

We should all calm down and think of a solution that will resolve issues from BOTH sides, not only 1.

Tensions run high as folks on both sides feel their way of (game) life is under attack, but yes, this is best handled by cool heads on both sides.

Last edited by Gidget (6 years ago)

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Do not assume that you speak for all just because you are the loudest voice; there are many who disagree that simply have no desire to waste words on you.

#20 Added by Placio 6 years ago [en]

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@Magez

Yes a RP'er can also let the other player know in chat or other non-around communication. I'm not opposed to comunication, just forcing people to play by "RP rules" that don't exist and that I and others certainly did not get to vote on. So if I accidentially speak OOC in around I would except RP'ers to work with it.

#21 Added by Mithian 6 years ago Multilingual

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( Not constructive at all, but can't hold myeself anymore :)

« Don't worry, honey, hide behind the blanket, the big bad RP won't be there anymore tomorrow when you'll woke up. »

That's really how it seems to me. Instead of accepting the fact RP is a big part of Ryzom, it's better to hide it, make a new channel RP dedicated. How weird, that's mostly the same people who cry for years because they don't want to be forced to play a certain way...

Last edited by Mithian (6 years ago)

#22 Added by Bitttymacod 6 years ago [en]

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Luminatrix

I don't know how good of an idea this is but a Roleplay tag that causes the tagged player's text in the Around channel a different color could also be a thing, maybe? We could use a Roleplay tag anyway.

The RP community and the non-RP community can peacefully live alongside each other. But it would take effort from both sides of the conflict. Right now I'm seeing a lot of "Your fun is wrong and our way of playing the game is the only right way", which is getting quite annoying.

I really like the idea of a different color for roleplay in Around. I think it would solve the whole thing. Use a flag of /sr and the color in Around changes. Voila.

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Remembering Tyneetryk
Phaedreas Tears - 15 years old and first(*) of true neutral guilds in Atys.
(*) This statement is contested, but we are certainly the longest lasting.
<clowns | me & you | jokers>

#23 Added by Jahuu 6 years ago [en]

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@Jellona, really good points with emotes and separation of community, that we need the least. I kinda liked the idea of RP channel, but this changed my mind completely.

There is ofc other channels for "not separating the community", but often as OOC healer even for just one your only good choice is around channel because /tell's disapears often when you change action bar and Region would be "flooding public chats".

Kyriann

Why can't people just use () when they want to talk in around ooc AND there are others players around making RP? Nothing to add, no work for dev who can work on things much more important, just to teach and advertise.

It does flood the one chat to have many discussions, even with () it makes it bit harder to follow, imo. Also "why should I have to type () around everything I say", eventho I already do this with new Homins to give room to RP'ers. Still not expecting it from others =D

Luminatrix

I don't know how good of an idea this is but a Roleplay tag that causes the tagged player's text in the Around channel a different color could also be a thing, maybe? We could use a Roleplay tag anyway.

Now this is something that would really solve something, amazing idea! Tag up your roleplay icon and have fancy color on your text, enter the story mode! =D

@Mithian, you provoker lol, also one could say that the other way around too ;)

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#24 Added by Luminatrix 6 years ago [en]

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[EDIT] This answer brings a judgment from others, which does not bring anything constructive to the debate.

Last edited by Tamarea (6 years ago)

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Luminatrix

Explorer, storyteller, universalist, fighter for freedom and equality.

"Without contraries, there is no progression" - William Blake

#25 Added by Gidget 6 years ago [en]

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Mithian

( Not constructive at all, but can't hold myeself anymore :)

« Don't worry, honey, hide behind the blanket, the big bad RP won't be there anymore tomorrow when you'll woke up. »

That's really how it seems to me. Instead of accepting the fact RP is a big part of Ryzom, it's better to hide it, make a new channel RP dedicated. How weird, that's mostly the same people who cry for years because they don't want to be forced to play a certain way...

Actually, it is constructive insofar as it's exactly that sort of behavior that made me think that this might be needed. [EDIT] Non-constructive comment.
How it seems to me is that there is a very vocal contingent who feels that anyone who uses the Around channel for not-RP is "doing it wrong", and there is a misconception that somehow RPers are more privileged/entitled than non-RP "peons". Sure, a lot of RPers are not that way, but enough are that way that RP gets a bad rep. And that's a shame and a disservice to the decent RP folks. Now, if you want more people to RP, then it would be in your best interest to make sure RP is seen in a more favorable light than it currently is by so many people.

You are also overlooking the fact that the User tab in chat has all channels enabled by default, so unless someone specifically and explicitly takes intentional action to opt out, it's not really hidden. (That fact takes a bit of the edge off of Jellona's argument as well, but we can address that later.) You will not be hidden unless they want to hide you, so unless you make people want to find a way to hide you, you have nothing to fear from that.

Yes, RP is a part of Ryzom, but how big a part is it? There is no universal consensus. And where there no consensus or compromise, there is conflict. I proposed an option with the intended purpose of turning conflict into compromise by allowing non-RP to tune out stuff they have no desire to deal with being told they are doing it wrong in a manner that does not deprive them of the Around channel. Do you want to deprive people of the ability to opt out? If so, how is that not forcing your way on others? How is giving non-RP folks the option to tune out unwanted dialog depriving RPers in the immediate vicinity the ability to RP?

Last edited by Tamarea (6 years ago)

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Do not assume that you speak for all just because you are the loudest voice; there are many who disagree that simply have no desire to waste words on you.

#26 Added by Mithian 6 years ago [en]

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That's probably why i've said that's not constructive at all.

And yep, that's exactly the same thing, just different point of view. Non RP players cry because they don't want to be forced to respect RP rules or whatever you want, but, RPers cry because non RP players don't care about it at all on an MMO based RP ;)

Tho, i think i like the idea on a color ( only one dedicated to show RP message on Around, i think no one want to have a rainbow on /s channel for RP.
[EDIT] Judgment of others, not bringing anything constructive to the debate.

Edited 2 times | Last edited by Tamarea (6 years ago)

#27 Added by Mithian 6 years ago [en]

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@Gidget

That's the point, i'm not RPing rn since.... Forum isn't RP ( Except dedicated part of it... ) so, your argument is quite.. unlucky :P

And... Don't try to say something like " Yeah, if i don't RP, that's because of RPers behavior. " You don't RP because you don't like to or just because that's not the way you want to play. And that's the same for at least 90% of the non RP players.

Maybe some rejected RP because they had bad experience of it, but most just don't care.

Maybe with an explanation of different kind of RP and habits... Some would maybe understand it and like to learn it, but, that's on an another topic.

#28 Added by Zarden 6 years ago Multilingual

Multilingual | [English] | Français

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+1 for the RP tag and different color on around : not forcing anyone to do anything and making it really obvious that this is RP. Maybe with a pop up the first time you active it explaining in a few line what it's for? Same kind of pop up you have the first time you go on UNI chat; I'm pretty sure everyone got to read this one as it's quite unexpected!

(#TROLL-ON And we should add a 24h timer on this tag because you know, RP is something people should not take lightly hihi ♥ #TROLL-OFF )

Last edited by Zarden (6 years ago)

#29 Added by Moniq 6 years ago [en]

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Luminatrix

...

I don't know how good of an idea this is but a Roleplay tag that causes the tagged player's text in the Around channel a different color could also be a thing, maybe? We could use a Roleplay tag anyway.

...

The best idea so far :)

#30 Added by Sinvaders 6 years ago [en]

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Gidget

Sinvaders
"No, I think Around is the RP channel even though many others disagree"

Many others agree.
Yes, there are many on both sides of the issue. I put that option there for the sake of those who feel maintaining the status quo (conflict, confusion, and all) is preferable to any solution that requires change.

By adding "many others disagree" in this particular choice, you are just willing to give the orientation you are looking to the result. Your answer is nothing more than bad faith.

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Refused

Do you think this is a good idea?