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Refused
Do you think this is a good idea?
Yes, it is a good idea pretty much as is 3
9.1%
Yes, it's a nice idea but could use a bit of polish 3
9.1%
No, but I have an idea that I think could work 1
3.0%
No, I think there is no problem so this is not needed 8
24.2%
No, I think Around is the RP channel even though many others disagree 15 (3)
45.5%
Other 3
9.1%
Abstain 5
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#1 Added by Gidget 6 years ago [en] 

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It seems that some folks like to use Around strictly for RP while others like to use it to chat (often OOC) with un-teamed homins in the immediate vicinity without the hassles of making teams or leagues that dissolve as soon as the conversation is over. And that has led to a bit of conflict between those who have differing views on what Around is really for.

There is already one thread about one possible remedy, but I have an alternative proposal that I would like some constructive feedback on; creating a Roleplay channel that functions much the same as Around (notably, limited range) but as it is separate from Around, it leaves no ambiguity as to whether something is IG or OOC without the hassles of, say, typing brackets on every comment or trying to remember whether italic is IG or not.

My goal here is simply to have the RP and non-RP folks each be able to do their thing without some of the confusion or conflict that we have, and do so in a manner that causes the least inconvenience. The only downside I see is that a small minority would have to click a different chat tab than the one that they are used to, and I consider that as a pretty minor inconvenience to a small number of people and thus more acceptable than some other ideas that have greater impacts on more people. But I also admit that my idea is likely less-than-perfect and would like to hear either ideas on how to refine it a bit or on more effective alternatives to a Roleplay channel or Revvy's suggestion.

Edited 2 times | Last edited by Gidget (6 years ago)

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Do not assume that you speak for all just because you are the loudest voice; there are many who disagree that simply have no desire to waste words on you.

#2 Added by Sinvaders 6 years ago [en] 

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"No, I think Around is the RP channel even though many others disagree"

Many others agree.

#3 Added by Luminatrix 6 years ago [en] 

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I'm honestly fine with Revvy's suggestion and yours both. We can have both options. As long as the warning says that "some players use this channel for RP" and not "this is the RP channel".

Around is NOT the RP channel. It never has been. Sometimes being used during events does not equal being a dedicated RP channel. As the OP says, it's commonly used for talking among players who aren't teamed. I would even argue that this is what it's used for most of the time. If it were meant to be a roleplay channel, it would be named Roleplay, not Around.

I'm perfectly okay with roleplayers using it for RP but they have to accept that it's not the channel's only function. Sure, use it for your RP but don't get mad that other people use it to speak OOC. If you want a channel just for RP, make a dedicated RP channel.

I don't know how good of an idea this is but a Roleplay tag that causes the tagged player's text in the Around channel a different color could also be a thing, maybe? We could use a Roleplay tag anyway.

The RP community and the non-RP community can peacefully live alongside each other. But it would take effort from both sides of the conflict. Right now I'm seeing a lot of "Your fun is wrong and our way of playing the game is the only right way", which is getting quite annoying.

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Luminatrix

Explorer, storyteller, universalist, fighter for freedom and equality.

"Without contraries, there is no progression" - William Blake

#4 Added by Aleeskandaro 6 years ago [en] 

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+

Either Revvy's suggestion (then in addition of a new non-RP around channel) or Gidget's idea seem equally valid to me.

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Bisugott(Atys)


#5 Added by Gidget 6 years ago [en] 

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Sinvaders
"No, I think Around is the RP channel even though many others disagree"

Many others agree.
Yes, there are many on both sides of the issue. I put that option there for the sake of those who feel maintaining the status quo (conflict, confusion, and all) is preferable to any solution that requires change.
Luminatrix
I'm perfectly okay with roleplayers using it for RP but they have to accept that it's not the channel's only function. Sure, use it for your RP but don't get mad that other people use it to speak OOC. If you want a channel just for RP, make a dedicated RP channel.
If they did accept that then we would not be having this discussion. There would be no need/desire for warnings or notices or separate channels. Alas, reality is not always ideal so here we are, and now we have to figure out what to do about it.
Luminatrix
I don't know how good of an idea this is but a Roleplay tag that causes the tagged player's text in the Around channel a different color could also be a thing, maybe? We could use a Roleplay tag anyway.
Great idea!
Luminatrix
Right now I'm seeing a lot of "Your fun is wrong and our way of playing the game is the only right way", which is getting quite annoying.
I've been annoyed by that for more years than I've been playing Ryzom. However, this is also the first game I've played where they community is reasonable enough to even bother trying to have any sort of discussion. I have faith that even those who disagree with me will at least listen respectfully.

Edited 4 times | Last edited by Gidget (6 years ago)

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Do not assume that you speak for all just because you are the loudest voice; there are many who disagree that simply have no desire to waste words on you.

#6 Added by Gidget 6 years ago [en] 

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double post

Edited 2 times | Last edited by Gidget (6 years ago)

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Do not assume that you speak for all just because you are the loudest voice; there are many who disagree that simply have no desire to waste words on you.

#7 Added by Jellona 6 years ago [en] 

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Gidget
...And that has led to a bit of conflict between those who have differing views on what Around is really for.
I don't know if we have read the same thread, Gidget, but the one you're referring to had nothing to do with making around channel for roleplay purpose only.
Please correct me if I got you wrong :)

I also fail to see how separating the community would make it better in any way.
I think we have enough examples of this in the world we live in today with groups of people being put in certain areas and then wondering why they don't fit well together with the rest of the society.

Gidget
I put that option there for the sake of those who feel maintaining the status quo (conflict, confusion, and all) is preferable to any solution that requires change.
Your hostility towards the roleplaying part of the Ryzom community is a bit too visible, even considered discrimination. "I don't know them or their habits so I want them away from my sight."
Why you want to write like this on the public forum where we're supposed to suggest positive ideas for the good of the game we all love?
Nobody tried to push roleplay on others but you feel a need to take the possibility from newcomers to learn what it is and choose themselves if they like it or not.

Put the roleplayers in a separate channel and I'm sure the gap between the different parts of the community will grow.

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#8 Added by Placio 6 years ago [en] 

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I'm just worried this will turn into (more?) channel policing. There are bound to be abusers of the new channel either intentionally or unintentionally.

I don't think that person A saying something OOC prevents person B from RPing, unless they are specifically harassing that person which is a seperate issue. For example if I ask Gidg, "hey what type of car do you drive?" she can say the make and model or say I have no idea what you are talking about you drink too much Plac.... And if person C is also a RP'er and overhears the conversation they can say/think those people have a funny way of talking... That is roleplaying- not demanding that the game mechanics are changed so people can only speak a certain way. You could even encourage or point someone in the right direction. You are asked what kind of car do you drive and reply, "Umm, you mean Mektoub? I ride an Aeden 1000, it is almost as weak as the FH guards!" That seems like a lot more fun than only sending a tell saying you're not allowed to use this channel for this or that...

#9 Added by Kyriann 6 years ago [en] 

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Jellona

Put the roleplayers in a separate channel and I'm sure the gap between the different parts of the community will grow.

+1000

Why should RPer be pushing apart? Why can't people just use () when they want to talk in around ooc AND there are others players around making RP? Nothing to add, no work for dev who can work on things much more important, just to teach and advertise.

And last, I can't answer the survey. Answers are realy too biased for a constructive answer.

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Kyriann Ba'Zephy Rie
Ancienne Cheffe de la guilde Bai Nhori Drakani
Taliar
Mère de famille

#10 Added by Gidget 6 years ago [en] 

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@Jellona - You say, "Nobody tried to push roleplay on others", but over the years I've had enough people give me flak for being lighter on RP than they feel I should be and "misused" the Around channel to feel that that is not true. If you can bear that in mind they maybe you will see I come across a bit strong on this issue. What you call "hostility" is simply frustration after years of being told I am wrong for having my own views and methods.

Now, my thinking was not segregation as you seem to imply. I simply feel that allowing a way for folks on both sides of the RP/non-RP line to have a short-range chat channel for their own use is preferable to a couple lines of text that will be ignored. I see a Roleplay channel as an option that adds inclusiveness; something analogous to a restaurant offering vegetarian options so that those who don't eat meat can still dine.

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Do not assume that you speak for all just because you are the loudest voice; there are many who disagree that simply have no desire to waste words on you.

#11 Added by Eolinius 6 years ago [en] 

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As Revvy says in the other post I ask myself if we're playing the same game.

Luminatrix
Around is NOT the RP channel. It never has been

I don't see how you can say that. I've been on ryzom for several years and around has always been the Roleplay channel.
Luminatrix
Sometimes being used during events

ALL THE TIME being used during events ! Can you only once prove otherwise ? and I can tell you that I have attended almost every event for several years
( I hope you don't confuse the around channel, and the channel created for the translation of the around channel )

Be careful, I have nothing against you or against people who don't do roleplay. You shouldn't simply reverse things.
I'm not saying that Around should be used exclusively for roleplay.
It is customary if people use it to make roleplay which ones have priority to use it without being bothered by non roleplay

The proof that Around channel was created to make roleplay is that in special commands to make it
/say (or nothing ) to talk 25m range
/sh for to shout only valid in around 50m range
Tell me what the /sh command can be used for if it's not for roleplay?

Now no one will put you in jail if you use around in any way you like
It's just a way of behaving so as not to disturb other players.

#12 Added by Naveruss 6 years ago [en] 

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I am absolutely agreeing with Jellona in all point:

-This thread wasn’t about making the around channel only for RP, but for prevent that it can be use by RP player, and you haven’t to be upset if someone is RP threatening you or other.

-Separate the around channel (and community?) into RP and none RP isn’t useful, only two prevention line are largely enough because we easily can peacefully live and play together.

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#13 Added by Luminatrix 6 years ago [en] 

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I probably phrased this wrong with Around not being an RP channel. What I meant to say was it's not a channel meant exclusively for RP. English is not my native tongue so forgive me if I didn't make that perfectly clear.
It is customary if people use it to make roleplay which ones have priority to use it without being bothered by non roleplay.

I have to disagree here. You don't have more of a right to the channel than anyone else just because you think you do. The channel is free to be used by everyone and there is absolutely nothing indicating roleplay should have any kind of priority whatsoever.

The /sh command may have been implemented for roleplay purposes, but again, it doesn't mean that's the case with the entire channel. It's to give you the option to roleplay, not to say "you must use this to roleplay".

As for whether Gidget's idea was or was not meant to isolate roleplayers, I feel like both sides of the conversation are heavily projecting what they think the other person is saying. Nobody is saying roleplayers have to be confined to the RP channel. Just that it would be nice to give them an option to have their own private channel where they wouldn't be bothered by people using Around for other things.

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Luminatrix

Explorer, storyteller, universalist, fighter for freedom and equality.

"Without contraries, there is no progression" - William Blake

#14 Added by Gidget 6 years ago [en] 

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Naveruss
-Separate the around channel (and community?) into RP and none RP isn’t useful, only two prevention line are largely enough because we easily can peacefully live and play together.

I really wish we could peacefully live and play together. And if I felt that two lines of ignorable text would do that, this whole thread would never have existed. Maybe this discussion will result in some sort of compromise that will render the idea moot though, and if that happens then I would consider that a win.

In any event, I would prefer to not be made out to be a villain here for having opinions or experiences that do not match those of others, or for having a different view on how best to reduce pointless conflict between players.

Last edited by Gidget (6 years ago)

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Do not assume that you speak for all just because you are the loudest voice; there are many who disagree that simply have no desire to waste words on you.

#15 Added by Jellona 6 years ago [en] 

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To Gidget:

Lets imagine we have a separate RP-channel as you suggested. I log in this game for the first time and start my journey on Atys.
I finally end up in the same area with some roleplaying folks who use emotes (that still work in around as I guess you'd still want to see your waves there).
They don't seem to communicate as they are talking on the separate roleplaying channel that I have no idea of.
I just see the emotes and silent homins walking around or standing doing nothing.

Lets note that I have never tried roleplay before so I don't even realize it exists here.

How will I learn to know that such form of playing exists?
How do I learn to understand that the seemingly afking players are actually having lots of fun that I might greatly enjoy if tried?
How would this separate roleplaying channel save me from confusion when I bump into homins from my own faction and I don't seem to understand their way of playing the faction play?
How would this separation of the "so tight and helpful and nice community" be beneficial for us in any, I mean any way?

If you don't understand something the most primal instinct is fear -> hate.
So let's fix it by spreading information, not hiding it even more.
I'm sorry you had to experience so many issues with roleplay but I don't think those past bad experiences should be carried to the new generations and brought up over and over again.
That is not the Ryzom the new players want to learn to know.

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