IDEAS FOR RYZOM

Currently, almost all items, mats, mobs, homins, etc. can get an INFO window opened if right-click and select INFO from the drop down.

Unfortunatelly, almost all INFO windows are empty. There is plenty of mat, mob, and homin information on here and BM site.

Can we scrape some of that INFO into these INFO windows?

I'm not sure what the problem is... if ya don't need to see the INFO, don't right click :)

Also note that many folks playing ryzom are barely meeting system requirements and don't have a 2nd screen ... so opening up a browser can be an issue for such folks.

I think the problem is, that info window is empty in most cases.

Maybe we thinking about different things ? I'm trying to recall some ... at least the ones folks normally interact with, that don't have any info. Things out in the landscape ... to be frank ... I had to actually click on one to recall that you could even do that.

-Mats have a slew of precraft ino , what they are for , color, name, bulk weight and quality.

-Weapons have all the stats, sap load, weight, requirements, HP left, Bulk, crafter, and bonus.

-Tools have HP left, weight QL, bulk, HP left

-Animals don't if ya click on them but if you do in inventory you get number, name, etc.

-Occupation stuff has info

-TPs have instructions

Now if we talking about things out in the wild, say mobs, NPCs etc that we see walking around I gotta say I don't go about and ever look at these cause just about everything I wanna know I can already see on screen.So maybe it's a language thing in interpreting the original post, but when I see the word "scrape" ... I read that as "get rid of" as in after scraping a sticker off my windshield, it's now "gone'. Speaking to these...

EDIT:  My thoughts on what to do with those now empty boxes start below

a) I can't see putting any T & E into eliminating them as where you get an empty window or nothing doesn't change anything.

b) I don't like the idea of spoon feeding folks as there's to much of that already. I mean if there's going to be a "spoiler", at least make the player do something to get to the answer. But, then where does it end ? When using an occupation practice board, right click and info and it shows you 100% recipe ? Figuring out the recipes in a group was some of the best "fun" I have had in this game.

c) I do like the idea of having the space editable so that a user could, on their own, have say:

Mob Name: Cuttler
Aggro: Yes
Defense - Parry
Damage Type - Pierce
Resists - Slash
Resists - Rot
Immune - Fear, Slow Attack

.... where anything with a colon is there from game ... things with a - you could add via edit

NPC: Vinnie "The Nose" Nambino
Trade: Loan Shark
Vig - 15% a day
Late Penalty - Lose 1 Fame point after 1st day.... 2 a day after 2nd ... 4 a day after 3rd .... 8 a day after 4th.

4. I'm not necessarily opposed to having some basic info in there, but just like if we could trade TPs, who would ever get off their tails and explore the beauty that is Atys ? Thirty party tools like KipeeCraft, Zyroom, BM and Silenda Sites, Bunny Tools, RyGReg, etc. exist because of a co-operative effort among a number of people ... and the experiences of the people involved in working together towards that common goal is a big part why the Ryzom Community is what it is today and throughout its history.

In short, i think where the question arises from is in the interpretation of the word "scrape". If it means spend some development time getting rid of them, if want to discourage that. If it means making the Windows editable so one could "take notes", I'd support that idea whole heartedly.

If it means spoon feed every thing there is to know about every thing we interact with in game, again, I see now sense of discovery or fun there.

If it means somewhere in between that certainly seems workable and useful.

I think he means mainly these windows:

Yeah, i think by the word "Scrape," he means 'Move' some of the info into those screens above. Or, as you mentioned, I like the idea of being able to add your own notes too. So even if you had to do it manually, that is good also imo.

As the community here has different 1st languages, when sharing one, intent and what's actually written are often not in alignment. So when referencing "the language thing ", I tried to make a distinction between what "the post literally says" 91st part) and "what I think Nudge meant" (2nd part) as a basis for further discussion. I obviously didn't do that as well as I'd hoped, as we're diverting into semantics (1st part) rather than addressing the idea itself (2nd part). Let my try and do better.

In the language written, the post implies something other than where I think Nudge wanted to go. For example, here's some common English uses of "scrape" (definition: "to remove from a surface ")

- Junior, make sure "scrape" the doggie poo of ya shoes before ya go in the house.
- Busboys, make sure ya "scrape" all the food off a plate before sticking in dishwasher
- I got a ticket today not because I didn't have my inspection sticker on the windshield but because I didn't "scrape" the old one off.
- Oh man, they still didn't "scrape" the roadkill of the pavement in front of our house yet.
- I was looking forward to another season of that TV show but it was "scraped".

In common usage, the scraped stuff is not retained ....it's never seen again. So before going on to what I surmised was the idea I wanted to make that clear fir subsequent participants in the thread .... I don't think it was intended that we in any way would want all Info boxes "scraped" (aka removed) never to be seen again.

With that ... or so I thought :) ... out of the way, transitioned to what I surmised Nudge intended starting with... "Now if we talking about things out in the wild"... examples I gave were Mobs and NPCs and if it wasn't clear, these are identical to the other examples which Moniq posted.

I, and I presume Nudge, is looking for feedback of how these might be used..... whether it's worth the T & E of removing them or scraping "transferring" data from other sources into these windows.  And hence the meat of the issue or what I think Nudge wanted to place on the table for discussion

A. Mob Window Options

1. a) eliminate, b) include basic data c) make it editable d) combination of b and c

2. If b), what data should be included

B. NPC Window Options

1. a) eliminate, b) include basic data c) make it editable d) combination of b and c

2. If b), what data should be included

C. Other "in the wild" Objects

1. a) eliminate, b) include basic data c) make it editable d) combination of b and c

2. If b), what data should be included.

See previous post for my thoughts below the yellow edit line

I'm with Naema. When I scrape things, the stuff I scrape off goes somewhere. When I scrape a block of cheese, "somewhere" is my plate. I've also been known to scrape a block of wood and use the shavings as a firestarter. So think of it not so much "removed" as "relocated". ;)



As for the original topic, I used to be disappointed by uninformative Info windows, but now I write them off as the sadly inevitable result of having a teeny, tiny dev team. Sure, I'd love to see them filled in and all, but not if it means having Ulu working nine 27-hour days a week.

Point is, they are pretty useless know. I found it very dissapointing in my early years. I could imaging that players making the switch from a " big " game to our beloved Ryzom, will find this a bit unprofessional, to say the least. This brings me to the point there is always the same excuse, that content , upgrades and all that is needed to keep a game exciting, can't be done bc it mainly runs on volunteers. I find that point not very valid, don't get me wrong i appreciate the hours of work done by these volunteers, but Ryzom is basicly run by a company, not an NGO...

If someone makes some money with running this game, doesn't bother me, it's a company and companies need to make money. But every time a player makes a valid point about some things that could be improved or altered, chances are tha the first reaction is " but there are only volunteers working on this "...
I know this runs on volunteers, but maybe one should ask him or herself if that explanation doesn't run out validity.

To be clear, i don't want to diminish the efforts from the volunteers, i just find it very easy for a company to give people the feeling that itself can't do any more than it does and it requires people who wan't to play this game, to work for free.

This is only to put my disinterest in this game atm in some perspective, i heard that phrase to much...

Next time I scrape doo doo off my shoe I'll save it for you. :)

I know it can be entertaining to argue semantics. But I'm gonna bow out. Yes, there are secondary, in this case tertiary uses of many words, as in "scrape up some money" but the context used certainly didn't imply that so we have to default to the primary "most common usage" definition.

I'd prefer to focus on Nudge's ideas. Luckily, we have dictionaries for semantics, most commoin usage being listed 1st under the various definitions and that will be my last word on the topic since i'd ratther advance the OP's idea.  i think anyone reading the topic at this point undertsands the comments are addressing "transfer rather then "remove"
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/scrape

Primary Definition = to **remove** from a surface by usually repeated strokes of an edged instrument
If we were talking about the primary *most common usage* definition of "scraping" I agree, it's not worth anyone's T & E.  When I re-read thinking as "transfer" rather than "remove", I was kinda perpexed having even forgotten you could do that ... "Yeah it's a cuttler, it's level 233, what else do ya wanna know ?"But then i stepped away from my personal PoV and thot about the new player and thought ... yes, it is kinda a pain to have to go outta game and open a browser to look at a web site, especially if ya not using a 2nd screen.   But BM IG App provides a bunch of info and Bunny Tools provides that and adds a few more categories.  But many folks are of the opinion that installing an IG app dimishes the puter's available resources (It doesn't, just adds an icon to app bar .. might a bit while actualy open) so they don't want to install IG apps.It would be a lot of work to grab all that data and transfer it into those windows ... and then there's the issue of spoon feeding (fun of dicovery lost).  I would seem that making the box editable might be done in just a few strokes but but obly if the infrastructire is in place to make anything editable besides markers and AI layout.  If not, I have no way to guess how much infrastructure might be required to do that.I have a possible solution in mind, will report on that when i get some feedback from folks more knowledgeable than me.

Spend a few years living with someone who you can't say "Good morning" to without kicking off an hours-long debate on how morality is subjective and who thinks we should all speak Haskell, and you'll eventually develop a certain degree of pedantry as a survival mechanism.


A lot of folks don't consider that Ryzom was written back when CPU clockspeeds, RAM and storage were all measured in units starting with Mega- instead of Giga-. However, a lot more feel that certain things should be part of the base game instead of add-ons, and consider installing/using IG apps to be an added hoop to jump through.

Blu - Not all companies have 74,134 employees or more.

sorry to have missed this great thread....

as for the right click --> 'info' window

the fact that it's always blank in game has always eluded me because we can indeed find all this information on sites that are as eternal as ryzom it's self.

i love the idea to provide some information by default and allow user input to add more details or personal notes to them, as for the argument that it's too much work, as someone that's poked into ryzom's files in the past (no secret, the results of it all are posted on the official forums as guides to improve the user experience of ryzom.)

as for the default information: that's just adding the text to an already existing file for whatever NPC/MOB/clickable items (eg: the 'Suvue' which looks like a flower and when right clicked has an option to pick a flower {but nothing happens} this example can be found in game by the dev with this location data: 8800.992188,-3154,-76.977562,-1.443092)
would be rather easy to do, decompress bnp archive, add text, save, recompress bnp archive, send out patch with new updated bnp file. ta-da.

as for the player edited data: that would be stored on a new file in the save folder and might be a little more tricky to implement then just adding text inside the base ryzom files.

the one HUGE issue to this is the language barrier, with the supported languages there would have to be info done for each one as it would be the finishing of the default info window that right clicking offers us which 99.9% of the time is indeed blank.

gidget:
while ryzom might not have 74,134 employees, it's had a massive amount of volunteers that put huge efforts into projects just to be ignored by WG and the powers that be. i can surely say this because i'm still waiting on some reply about the upper branches project, i never got a 'yes' , 'no' , 'drop dead' , or anything, and that was work i and those that worked with me in the beginning did over the course of 2 years, many hours... hours where i was paying to play ryzom while i worked for ryzom for free.... i paid to work i guess; so i can indeed agree with FF that the excuse that we don't have the talent required on hand to do any of these things is just extreme, more then a few of us have been around since 2002/2003 when atys was just the burning desert map {now you know why it's the only region that has cities outside the level 1-50 zone} which is also why NH is most useful in... the burning desert.
most of what i know about ryzom i've learned on my own by talking to others and doing things on my own, i've bricked a few installs over the years (glad the save folder is always safe) trying to change the limit on the map zoom for example. tried for ages to find a way to remove the retarded limit to my map markers, they're saved locally on my PC i should be able to save as many as i want, maybe i'm forgetful. but there's a check done by the server that will delete any new markers over X value, totally pointless given it's not using the companies storage space to be kept.
bottom line, ryzom's turned away far more talent then they've been willing to utilize by always giving an excuse that we don't have the development team for it, the volunteers are the development team if this is truely OPEN source, but it's not because WG makes the final choices, and volunteers work hard just to find out they wasted time.

..... sorry for the rant in there, but i've been gone for years, and the excuses are the same and for the most part so is the game, most requests are still unfilled, and i'm looking at the requests asked for repeatedly over 15 years or more. (never saw anyone ask for a new version of the wheel of misfortune)

i'm the same talk i always was, and always will be: blunt

talkIRC

This would be a great idea to have ingame. I dont always want to keep extra windows open to just view simple information about some object, npc...etc. Its all there ingame. and Its a nice feature that there but its not being used. take out of game if we arent going to use it. So many things in ryzom that is left untouch and forgotten about.

- Make your own appzone app
- Populate it however you want and with whatever you want
- Ask the devs to link the info button to it instead

Don't expect someone else to do the work. If you want something bad enough. Do the work.

What did I miss ?

I was but around in 2002/2003 but Ryzom ? The NeL engine was released (free software) in late 2002. My download folder is dated January 2004, tho don't have anything in it anymore. Game release was in September 2004... 1st Open Beta I think was April. .... US had desert to play in, UK had forest ... as I recall Germany had Lakes and France Zora.