IDEAS FOR RYZOM

I'm all for and ok with the concept of "If you want toys, you have to work for it"
But for basic grinding and skill up garbage not so much. A little challenge sure. But I think if one honestly looks back 6+ years ago, there was a distinct difficulty gap that seemed to work well between PR, Sup and basic garbage materials.

Maybe the high end could have been harder back then, but lower were about right.

I wasnt around 6+ years ago, (not even half of that lol), so I dont know what happened then, but nowadays you just gotta believe in yourself. Even grindy mats are the toys you gotta put some effort, know the terrain (not to dig where nameds or aggro attack if you cant handle them etc), so just go and try. Worst thing that can happen is some DP that has gone away way before your bag is filled with mats.

Or maybe team up with master digger, get fast experience AND you'll see where materials are.

Sorry if I came across as unknowing or newb.
I am master dig, master 2hand axe, master ele, master heal etc.... I am merely thinking that just because they are the way they are now, doesn't mean it is ideal for a game to gain popularity or retain new members. Thereby more subscriptions.

Basic should be newb or solo friendly imo. They were once upon a time, and I think they should be again.

Jahuu -- what happened 6 years ago was the server merger.  As part of that merger all the material locations were moved so that those players who wished to keep their experience and skills wouldn't have a "big advantage" over those who chose to start anew.

As might have been predicted, that didn't work, and in Prime Roots it REALLY didn't work, since zones ended up right on top of each other and the prospecting and tracking operations failed/gave conflicting results.  The Prime Roots mats were put back to status quo ante, but the basic stuff that used to be available in the near vicinity of the towns was reduced to one mat only (amber), and several reasonably safe locations for early stages of digging and crafting (i.e. materials for a whole pair of pants were available near to each other) went away.

Thank you Bitty, that is a well put better indepth example of what I was trying to convey.

Not sure I understood, but I can name several locations where all materials are available close to each other. Like Thesos, Fount, EI, FG...

Hmm, as I never experienced these times, I cant really say much to that. I had found mektoub waterhole in jungle by myself and it was huge adventure. It took week atleast to get to know the place and to realize there is 10 different type of mats and knowing not to dig sap where Raguses roam and what of these mats goes to armor and what to pistol bullets. Knowing to face pond to get oil and Hoï-Cho to get sap (and the joy of learning mat spec on prospect). Made me see forager as someone who survives in the wild with just pickaxe in hand. I'm glad that there were no easy mats near capital. Then, I ended up talking to other forager who showed me spots in q200 zone next to the capital, it was huge deal. Sure there was Fylish roaming, but after few deaths one learns to avoid it. Gotta find your place in the Atys as forager. You and wilderness, and never knowing when kitins might come...

Now people keep talking about the Prime Roots, so Jahuu goes in and learns soon (after few DP's..) to watch out for Voraxes and Tyrancha, runs fast and far when bunch of kirostas seem to attack from far. Learns safer places to dig, and to avoid certain spots if they are full of aggro in this season. Next season it might be easy digging, just like how mektoub waterhole taught. "Oh, a supreme pop", mark down weather, season and time of day and trying when it will pop again. Cleared the spot few times and ended up clearing some other spots now and then, not too much, just once in a while and mostly just dumping stuff into GH for our crafters. Getting craft levels higher and boosting stuff since everybody else were boosting too.. Ended up having NPC HA, boosting staff and shield, getting the "is this it?" moment running almost invulnerable to anywhere. The going exile and giving all away but dig gear was very refreshing, trying still to stay far from supremes and that feeling.

Back to the topic, some challenge IN THE END GAME would be fun. Supremes are way too easy to get and hitting the roof _alone_ is nasty imo. Maybe if it would need more people to really get supremes, like with the Sinvaders' idea of less stabile sup spots or whatever. End game is way too single player game now (again imo), I atleast want to rely on other players more.

I disagree with some points.

Some sup spots; sure; they are super easy to dig. But so are a ton of other things in Ryzom.

But some spots; for a solo digger; they require extreme knowledge of the aggro movement on the area and when is the only window you will have to go dig your spot in one go. Notable examples: Dzao at LoC; Tama at US, Soo at FD etc. etc. etc. If u have a meat-shield everything is easy; if u don't it's not at all easy.

Shouldn't I , and all those like myself that have mastered the art of sneaking to difficult spots, be handsomely rewarded? We should.

Sup hunting for myself; is the only activity I really enjoy in Atys; the only real challenge that remains; that can be done with one person. You take that away; you take away my fun time; something I have invested way too much time in to learn and become good at. It's a fine art on its own to even know according to weather and where you are when to use your specials, when to purposefully dp taxi, when to tp, which mat to go after first; which specials you should use and when (some spots have jugs on the way some others don't). This is all a tremendous aspect of PR digging gameplay. Take away the benefits; we have nothing to play for.

I was the first to complain when Pats where removed from the Roots (for no reason at all), and I was the first to cherish their return. Like-wise when the goo-lag annoyances were introduced; it was a nightmare trying to solo-dig in PR; I stopped playing for quite some time when that happened. Those who have the time and invest their time into any activity they are good at, should be rewarded accordingly; if not; then our time is not worth it. Do whatever you want on the surface; (does anyone even care that after the last reboot the thessos wall "disappeared?"), but leave our roots alone.

I will stress again and again and again that the problems stem from Guilds keeping up with their Faction-only policies; and not making any effort what-so-ever to engage in trade activities with other factions. Of course if that's the attitude that is dominant, we all end up with stacks of sup mats in our GHs and we complain about over-abundance.

Need I mention the extremely hillarious thing that because of this policy; some factions, end up with a tremendous amount of Boss Loot, which they cannot however, irony huh, put to any good use, because they don't do Marauder Hunts, so they don't even have crystals to craft said loot? Or the fact that they ban and criticize other guilds that participate in said hunts? (And I am talking about my faction as well)

Yes; over-abundance of resources is the problem; clearly; not the dead-end cold war RP that has stagnated the market-place...

And here is the kicker: Sup digging allows a sole homina to be in control of her future. With a fully stocked sup gh; you do not need any faction, any guild, no-one. You are really free to play your game the way you want it; you have endless power. And this I know from my experience. I am kami because I have elected to be one; and because of my friends. However; I don't need them; and I hope they don't need me.

Because I can stand on my super tall legs on my own; I don't even care if my faction disagrees with me; and they have done on many times in the past.I am free. I am free because I don't depend on them. Maybe that's why many RP heavy guilds emphasize on the importance of doing things only intra-guild, or intra-faction, they are afraid of what happens when individual hominas and homins don't give a crap about their policies; when individual hominas seize utter control of the means of production to the extend to which; we really don't careeeee about your RP because we are FREE!

#DemolishRPeconomy

Too early in the morning for me. Not enough coffee in the world to place all that into my braincells to make sense. BUT I "think" I like/agree with your post Northstar :-)

+1 Northstar!

#DemolishRPeconomy

I chose HA as my 1st craft tree, a choice forever immortalized in "88 Lines About 44 Bunnies  "Freddy Chose the HA craft / he liked that kind of misery."  And that line was chosen because I never again experienced the "hassle" of getting all 4 mats both a) from the "math standpoint"... needed a calculator to figure how many of each mat to get.

But even more so because b) in NO region did I find all mats in the same place. Joolz is often claimed to be "the bear" , I guess because of so much clicking ... and when i doid it, each jool had different quantity of mats.  However, no math.... (if you had 660 bulk free, you dig 600 amber and 660 seed.) and amber and seed were always found in same place. 

I found Joolz a breeze by comparison. But I think the problem that Sarpes if referring to falls on the situation.  When game was developed, it went thru a long development period ... then there were several betas and things changes substantially.  When servers merged, everything had to get done quickly.

I don't get the post merge "wanted to remove advantage by experienced players thing" as it must have been obvious this wouldn't work, at least for spots.  Within a week, all the spots used by the experienced players (250 zone), were posted on Silenda.  So it actually had the opposite effect ... experienced players had maps for where they dig and the inexperienced players ... the ones doing 50 - 200 regions did not. If that was the intent, it had the reverse effect.

The only real equalizing effect that needed to take place I guess was due to the fact that the player culture was different.   When ya have one server where all factions cooperated to collect uber mats and gear, you are going to reap the rewards of working cooperatively.   When the main goal is not "getting the stuff" but "keeping the stuff away from others", there's going to be a lot less "stuff" around.

The economy was a big change too and they did great considering the time frame, wasn't really anything I could do w/ 1.3 billion dapper before merge.  It did take a bit more than I liked post merge to get "up to speed" w/ 4 meks, apartment and GH purchases but not overburdenly so. The one omission I felt was missed was that the cost for Restoration of NPC Plans was not adjusted for the new economy.

What I took from the discussion in PMs with Sarpes was that "not a lot of thought" went into the new locations.  I place the root cause here again to the limited timeline between old servers going down and new ones starting up.  Wasn't any time to really think about it, nor time to evaluate the placement. Given the time frame allowed, end result is better than I would have presumed.

Atys players are creatures of habit, like in every other game and I admit to shaking my head when uni was filled with complaints "Hey I can't dig bark and my usual spot cause there's goo here" ... well ya know ... there's 5 other bark spots ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dBE8nvWUi8

"improvise, overcome adapt" !

On the other hand, there are things that simply are frustrating because they don't make sense or don't balance risk versus reward.   I can dig exe zun in Paramount Stock all night long w/ "no chance in the hot place" that I gonna get DP... but when I want to get the basic / fine bark necessary for that 84% amp recipe, it's dead in the middle of a kincher spawn.

And yes .... understanding how we got here, not a bigga deal ... a ryzom player surely should be able to "improvise, adapt, overcome" ... but I do think that risk and reward should be balanced where possible. So I don't see the point to putting effort into take that inconsistency / imbalance even further .

And yes, there needs to be some mystery left to the game ... there was Supreme version of the "Exe Mat Resources Bunny Tool" but after evaluating it for 2 seasons, frankly, it took all the fun out of chasing Sups and so it was never released. made a funny April Fools Day joke tho :)

I don't really understand many of the responses in that I didn't really see any suggestion to make things easier than they are now. My understanding was that what was proffered was let's just not make things harder willy nilly w/o consideration of that risk / reward factor. I understand the mindset of "let's make it harder for peeps to get the same stuff me and my buds can get".

I don't agree with it but I understand why it is desired. But I also see the point Sarpe wants to make ... making the game more difficult so it's better suited to experienced players at the potential expense of new or returning players just looking to grind levels doesn't benefit anyone and is likely to have a negative effect on player retention.

I think we are in violent agreement with one another :) So I'm not sure who you are disagreeing with for this part of the post. Sarpe is talking about access to QL140 basic mats w/o getting DP. To my understanding, you, he and I are in complete agreement on sups.

Yes, this is a central point of division with no "right or wrong". The mindset that developed on each server was different and that difference, I assume, has its basis in culture. My Polish grandmother's "fav sausage" was kielbasa, for my Italian Uncle.. Italian sausage, for my German neighbor, it was Bratwurst". The best choice for anyone is ... of course... "what they like best".

But if a restaurant serves a neighborhood with limited population and mixed cultures, then if they cater to only one set of "cultural cuisine", it will be hard to keep the doors open. Even a steakhouse, will offer a couple of chicken, vegetarian and seafood options so that a "party of 12" is likely to have 2 or 3 in that category and will go some place else if those options are not available.

As I indicated before, the reason we were all stripped our our goodies, is that on Ari server, at every SN pop, the player base walked away with 300 sups from every spot. Kami, Kara and neutrals all dug side by side and openly traded mats, OP mats and everything else.

The goal was , when it came to an OP battle... looking across the field at an opposition 1/4th your size was not a "good thing" ... looking across the field and seeing the opposition was not as well equipped as you were, was a "bad thing". The mindset was "winning" is not "winning", when there is a significant advantage in size, skill level or equipment. If the goal was to present a "challenge" and "have fun", that wasn't going to happen under the conditions noted above.


It seemed to me, from the lore and discussions with the NA CSRs, that the purpose of the Trytonists was to keep either of the religious factions from gaining dominance.

"Trytonists have their own beliefs. They follow the will of Elias Tryton. In fine, their aim is to make sure hominity will live through and that, as long as there's no possibility to do otherwise, they will make sure no Power (K/K) is going to takeover the planet." So at least from a RP perspective, there was a means to encourage balance, however the associated mechanics never quite got implemented.

Ari went thru several community mindsets for settling on that PoV. Given that 6 years or so has gone by, I don't think a "meeting of minds" is in Atys' future. The difficulty we face when discussing "where do we go from here ?" is that any changes which move to greater alignment to one PoV, because of this dichotomy, will invariably disinterest the other PoV's.

In summary, I think it is necessary that, if we want the game to survive, we have to be careful. In order to make things a bit more interesting for players with one PoV, the impact on other PoV's should be taken into account such that others are not are not alienated or negatively impacted to the point where subscriptions drop to a level that maintaining the game becomes nonviable.

you forgot the /mic drop
well said.