IDEAS FOR RYZOM

There has never been a currency based economy in Ryzom, you can go back to the archived forums and Items for Sale were either bartered for other items or "grind mats". Tho I had mastered HA and MA if i wanted that +165 LA Focus set was gonna cost anywhere between 3,000 and 8,000 grind mats. In 14 years of play, I never bought a crafted item from a merchant.

And Gidget, you undersold yaself ... post was easily worth 57 dappie. And to extend G's point ... post merge the desire for "boosted" items has grown into a "must have". That means for every boosted amp, there's 19 premium amps out there that didn't boost, most of which are given away.

As for unlimited money ... it takes quite a while to get to that point in the post-merge economy. First thing I did after 2 minutes on Silan was head to the stable where I had a case of sticker shock and responded by taking my 4 alts over and stealing their starter cash. Just going about your normal business should be more than enough to pay for ya TPs and Mek Food. The 2 million for apartment and IIRC, 10 million for each capital city GH. takes a while but then it's clear sailing unless ya need to spring for that way outta line 90 million to restore NPC plans.

Just going about my business w/o double dipping w/ alts, I'd earn about 10 million a month from crafts and Occs. When I hit 12, I'll lose 10 to GH or handouts to new players and go from 2 to 12 again next month. Tho, of late, spending time on Tribe Fame, I'd say its cut in half.


But I don't wanna veer to far off the original post subject except that Mats is the current economy. And in that respect its very much like RL ... if ya born w/ a rich daddy, life is easy. And the point Sin is making is "What fun is it having a giant new yacht if everybody has one ? In Ryzom terms, it's not enough to have the biggest stick, it's about making it so that the guy you go up against has a smaller one.

And this is why I am proud to call you friend and guildmate Freddy.
You are spot on and articulated my point quite well. All mats in desert from Q50 up to Q250 have seemingly gotten less newbie or returning player friendly.

Yes there are some easy no agro mats. But they are only small portions of the craft plans. To craft anything even a crappy basic give away, you have to endure agro for at least half the required mats. This was not really the case at all premerge/database wipe.

Want a very specific example?
Amber and seed. I could sit just at the edge of Dyron and dig till my eyes bled. Q200 but that is how I got my jewel craft up. Likewise for Q250, there was a special corner in the 250 area. Dig away with no issues. the ONLY catch was, you depleted the sources pretty often.

Now, seed is smack dab in the middle of an agro spawn for 50, 200, 250 at least. I have not checked 100 or 150. Very similar scenario for armor mats as well.

If your experience is different, submit and share your finds with the mat map websites please.

Which class do we talk about here? While I had never problem to dig any basic/fine mats for training. And also most of surface excellent just needs knowledge of the specific area.

Well i think several things are being discussed.

1. Sin wants fewer high end mats.

2. Sarpedonia's comments, at least what i gathered from in game discussions in Guild Chat was commenting that things have already been made harder post-merge and let's not take it any further. Three things factor in to being an "efficient" dig spot:

Proximity to TP
Proximity of Hawker
All mats within reasonable walk distance

Pre-merge, in desert, I could dig all the choice mats I wanted ... desired choice mats, mind you ... with a short walk from a TP and with a once / twice a day or so aggro attack. Today, yes I can find easy spots for each mat but it's inconvenient as dragging your mek around and long walks to / from TPs and hawkers are often required. To find all 4 mats of ya typical armor / weapon craft close to one another **in a zone that has close access TPs and hawkers** not so much.

Loria Ponds is one such area but, except for Mara is a pain to get to / from and rarely has a Hawker. Lost Valley is probably the most used for this purpose and it remains the only spot that I have seen knock the KT line down to any significance since merge. Access thru Void TP stinks for me but neighboring region HoP is not bad.

Flaming Forest has decent TP and Hawker access but many choice mats are right in aggro spawns. I have adjusted by switching to basic which is OK for me since Harvest XP is meaningless and craft XP yields the same no matter what the mat grade is.

I keep a packer in Void, Lakes and Desert ... can't be bothered w/ Forest. In lakes I keep in Lake Superior cause the no Hawker thing in Loria Ponds is a deal killer for me.

However, to the new or returning player who hasn't mastered all dig regions, the goal will be do dig choice to maximize dig XP and craft in close proximity to a TP and hawker. Not commenting why either is a good or bad thing, but he is correct ... it is harder to dig choice mats relatively undisturbed post-merge at a spot that fits the 3 criteria above.

The running doesn't bother me so much in comparison of having limited ability to fullfil craft plans without incuring death penalty.

Freddy is correct that my issue is to make sure people don't talk the devs into making it MORE difficult than it is with a preference of reverting to what dig conditions were premerge.

Making digs for general XP hard or impossible for newcomers just does not sell the game to anyone. If we make the game difficult to the point where you need master melee/heal/nuke to dig, we will have a population issue worse than we keep seeing over the years.

Nevrax went under due to poor marketting imo. Maybe it was other things as well, but not selling the game or advertising it doesn't make a game live. Then you add ontop of a huge learning curve and difficult starting in a "WoW" gamer age, This will remain a ghost town.

Basic mats should be agro free or very limited. Increase the agro occurance to match the quality of the mats.

For those that "have no issue" Do you report and share your dig finds on map sites? If not, you can't really expect any positive replies from returning players or new players....let alone agreements with you.

No. I gave up making any marks on map, I simply use BM to see where it should be and then it is not hard to locate there. And when I dag somewhere before I usually remember. However, showing spots to others when it comes to a question.

I think its still best to track random ex and then let tracking to lead me. I like random digging, if anything i like on digging :P

Well high end mats I believe some secrecy is good. But basic and Fine would be helpful to the community if people share what isn't already shared. Maybe Choice would be good if the digger is generous with knowledge.

I got two hints when I was low level digger, try prospecting in herbie groups or near zinuakeens.

Most of my (basic-choice) dig spots I've found by using relatively long time on searching them by exploring and trial and error, or when someone has shown me a spot.

"In Ryzom players together are against the game" and the famous cookie quote are showing we like it hard here. After working to accomplish something, it's more rewarding too ;)

Boosting with sups is everyday now for players, doesnt sound sups have their value or Ryzom style hardness to me. This leads back to this topic.

I'm all for and ok with the concept of "If you want toys, you have to work for it"
But for basic grinding and skill up garbage not so much. A little challenge sure. But I think if one honestly looks back 6+ years ago, there was a distinct difficulty gap that seemed to work well between PR, Sup and basic garbage materials.

Maybe the high end could have been harder back then, but lower were about right.

I wasnt around 6+ years ago, (not even half of that lol), so I dont know what happened then, but nowadays you just gotta believe in yourself. Even grindy mats are the toys you gotta put some effort, know the terrain (not to dig where nameds or aggro attack if you cant handle them etc), so just go and try. Worst thing that can happen is some DP that has gone away way before your bag is filled with mats.

Or maybe team up with master digger, get fast experience AND you'll see where materials are.

Sorry if I came across as unknowing or newb.
I am master dig, master 2hand axe, master ele, master heal etc.... I am merely thinking that just because they are the way they are now, doesn't mean it is ideal for a game to gain popularity or retain new members. Thereby more subscriptions.

Basic should be newb or solo friendly imo. They were once upon a time, and I think they should be again.

Jahuu -- what happened 6 years ago was the server merger.  As part of that merger all the material locations were moved so that those players who wished to keep their experience and skills wouldn't have a "big advantage" over those who chose to start anew.

As might have been predicted, that didn't work, and in Prime Roots it REALLY didn't work, since zones ended up right on top of each other and the prospecting and tracking operations failed/gave conflicting results.  The Prime Roots mats were put back to status quo ante, but the basic stuff that used to be available in the near vicinity of the towns was reduced to one mat only (amber), and several reasonably safe locations for early stages of digging and crafting (i.e. materials for a whole pair of pants were available near to each other) went away.

Thank you Bitty, that is a well put better indepth example of what I was trying to convey.

Not sure I understood, but I can name several locations where all materials are available close to each other. Like Thesos, Fount, EI, FG...

Hmm, as I never experienced these times, I cant really say much to that. I had found mektoub waterhole in jungle by myself and it was huge adventure. It took week atleast to get to know the place and to realize there is 10 different type of mats and knowing not to dig sap where Raguses roam and what of these mats goes to armor and what to pistol bullets. Knowing to face pond to get oil and Hoï-Cho to get sap (and the joy of learning mat spec on prospect). Made me see forager as someone who survives in the wild with just pickaxe in hand. I'm glad that there were no easy mats near capital. Then, I ended up talking to other forager who showed me spots in q200 zone next to the capital, it was huge deal. Sure there was Fylish roaming, but after few deaths one learns to avoid it. Gotta find your place in the Atys as forager. You and wilderness, and never knowing when kitins might come...

Now people keep talking about the Prime Roots, so Jahuu goes in and learns soon (after few DP's..) to watch out for Voraxes and Tyrancha, runs fast and far when bunch of kirostas seem to attack from far. Learns safer places to dig, and to avoid certain spots if they are full of aggro in this season. Next season it might be easy digging, just like how mektoub waterhole taught. "Oh, a supreme pop", mark down weather, season and time of day and trying when it will pop again. Cleared the spot few times and ended up clearing some other spots now and then, not too much, just once in a while and mostly just dumping stuff into GH for our crafters. Getting craft levels higher and boosting stuff since everybody else were boosting too.. Ended up having NPC HA, boosting staff and shield, getting the "is this it?" moment running almost invulnerable to anywhere. The going exile and giving all away but dig gear was very refreshing, trying still to stay far from supremes and that feeling.

Back to the topic, some challenge IN THE END GAME would be fun. Supremes are way too easy to get and hitting the roof _alone_ is nasty imo. Maybe if it would need more people to really get supremes, like with the Sinvaders' idea of less stabile sup spots or whatever. End game is way too single player game now (again imo), I atleast want to rely on other players more.