IDEAS FOR RYZOM

I'm a pretty new player. Was just informed about the entry. The real problem for new players is not that they do not come to the materials or whose craft has no corresponding levels. But the money system. When you can accumulate endless money, that's a problem.

There has to be a balance between material and money. Like a capitalist economy. At the moment it seems more like socialism to me. You need to know people who can build something or have equipment, or join a guild. Markets are not filled and it's not worth selling good equipment for lower levels for higher levels. That needs to change.

There must be a limit to the game money and a corresponding adjustment to the market. That means that if there are more materials, whether in the shop or stored somewhere, then it should be cheaper in the shop, as well as the other way round. The prices must then be determined by the system. Voluntary exchange of homin to homin is excluded.

The idea: If there are many materials available and prices are cheap, it is not worth digging if you have enough money. Rare materials are therefore also expensive. So you can avoid that sources are not constantly exploited, because it is no longer worth the effort, but for new players it will be interesting.

The NPCs should accordingly also offer excellent and supreme materials according to the value.

The rewards of the missions or occupations may not have a standard reward, but adjusted.

I do not think there should be a limit on sources or creatures. That's good in my opinion right now.

At least this is a little idea I have that can make the game a little livelier and also give new players a fair chance and not just the long-time players.

[made by Google Translate] <--- sorry, but was easier for me.

@Heemis The issue with money (dappers) in Ryzom is that they are mainly use for:
- buying TP (and nobody knows why kamis or karavan would need this useless resource);
- buying new crafting tools;
- buying cheap cosmetics;
- outpost;
- buy marauders armor plans;

Which means that they are not used by players for interactions ( or they can but what you will do with this pointless resource as you can get bunch of them more than easily ), it's not valuable and unless someone has a plan to create an economy in the game, we do not include dappers in the current discussion.
Here we are talking about the fact that the available resources are not designed for the amount of players we are.

Thanks to Lacuna who explained the main point of this post.

@Jorgensen, no the idea is not to make the game "harder" (but yes I think the game is already to easy but this is not the point of the discussion).

@Moniq, well you don't go in PR enough or at the right periods in order to get materials. I don't count the number of time I was alone in 250 PR zone depleting sup spot (or with a friend to keep some aggros away from me) (and alone cause no body really cares to miss one season change digging sessions as GH are all full of sups mats already).
But I totally agree with you when you say that it's too easy to get bosses and figs mats. Most likely, Kitin Patrols needs a small buffers and sup spot needs to be more aggressive (like more damage when it explodes and less stabilisation) (it's just 2 ideas/pointers).

@Bluaarbthi I really think that is something realistic but in that case they should put sup in every land (forest,jungle,desert,lake).

Hmm, think I like this aspect tho, it brings players closer to each other. I mean, naturally I'm trying to make everything to work by myself, "no matter the price". However, to get something I dont have craft levels in, or to get down real nasty boss, I need help. That help means, I end up talking to people and end up liking and staying in more. If I could do everything myself, I would def talk less and probably be logged in less.

Like Sin says, dappers are not really good for trading between players. Real currency seems to be grindy mats (stack of basic/fine q250 dig mats) and desirable exe/sup mats.


This is result of the 7 day timer, means you gotta retrieve gear/mats back, relog an sell again before the timer runs out or they are destroyed. Many have tried to keep merchants equiped, with very nice gear too, but it's very ofputting once you miss the deadline and see that all the gear are just gone.


No we're talking, higher aggro range for patrol and really bad stability/life, to really need and careplanner down there. Better not to apply for choice/exce tho, or we wont get new PR masters. Darn, wanting to change my vote from "no" to "yes" now =P

Hehe, yes my statement about stability/life was only for the sup one not choice/xl (cause grinding PR digging is already a pain with the weather when you want to lvl one craft at the same time (otherwise you are digging mission materials and destroy them afterward). So I agreed with you that shouldn't be applied for xl or choice.

Open barter economy and banish RP economy!

Instead of adjusting the game, adjust yourselves!

Chanchey Black Market is not enough; we need more of those events to solve the problems.

But if we all trade within our factions, ofc then we will complain about the plethora of mats out there, because well, we have them intra-faction. Does that wealth translate to the world out there? It doesn't.

Set up more Black Market events, or Auction Events, and the wealth will be spread around; motivation for crafting full gh's will be increased.

You want to change the world(atys); but are reluctant to change society(factions functionality); change society and the world changes; stick to faction-cracy, and nothing changes.

The thing is, as with most topics, request for change most often comes from a place of "the way I choose to play the game, this isn't working out as well as I'd like". And while they most often make perfect sense, from that person's PoV, such a change usually severely compromises the way other people play.

There are folks IG who basically all they do is chase sups and / or bosses. So whatever scheme is implemented that would be most appropriate for those folks, would be less advantageous for those folks like have posted above. I have **seen** Kiro boss 3 times since merge. Two of the three dropped no mandible, the third was a 3 mat (21 of each) drop w/ a 3 guild split. So in 6 years or so, I have managed 7 mandible. And yes, I do spend a fair amount of time scouting, but it's not all I do and most often, I'm not doing it in group or part of a coordinated effort. But that's OK, if I can't get by w/o every piece of equipment I'm using being uber quality, i should have quit playing long ago.

So yes, the current system favors larger groups working together for a common goal devoting the majority of their time to it which is not a bad thing. The problem, if you will, was most evident prior to the shutdown before server merge when there were many players grinding jools from GHs stacked with 10,000+ spu zun. I can understand the mindset of getting enough to craft what is necessary to supply your guild or supply your faction. But what I have noticed since merge is that it's less about that and more about keeping the good stuff away from the "evil people".

The only way that I see the issue being addressed fairly across the board is if availability was limited **similar to** instanced situations but without the overhead of creating the infrastructure necessary to do so. Unfortunately, how this might be implemented in a manner that could not be subverted is something I have not been able to formulate. For example, if mats "aged", say anything over xxx mats degraded after a certain time ... regardless of the difficulty in implementing it, peeps would subvert by adding more GHs or crafting off and then you'd have to have equipment aging too which i don't like.

Given the above, I wouldn't support any change to the existing system.... but would love to examine any idea that isn't geared to provide advantage or disadvantage to any subset of the player base.

As a very old timer that just had their character restored from pre-database wipe. I find that mats are obnoxiously difficult in comparison to 6+ years ago.

IF there is to be any adjustments, it should return to the days of old.

NO damn way should choice and lower mats only pop in areas of agro.
LEAVE THE AGRO to Sup and Prime roots like it used to be.

I abstain from this poll, as it is too general and far too open to interpretation of the yes vs no.

We don't say that choice mats should get harder to dig.

Hmm. That doesn't match my experience.  The "easy mats" that used to be right next to the city gates have moved, it is true, but they are not particularly in aggro areas in the places they have moved to, and there are plenty of areas where the digging is undisturbed by aggro.  (I will acknowledge a few cases where a deposit of a particular mat seems to penetrate a bandit camp, but not to the point of impossibility.)  The locations of all PR mats is the same as it was prior to the server merge.

-- Bittty (digging since 2008)

In my not very humble opinion, being able to accumulate endless money is not a "problem" -- it is inherent in the very premise of the game.

Item: Money is a marker for expressing barter at one remove.

Item: Capitalism is based on the ability of a person or group to gain and control access over raw materials and based on the fact that on Earth all  resources are limited.

Item: Human societies in areas where nature produces more than the society needs for survival and civilization do NOT INVENT MONEY.

Item: Atys is a growing plant, illuminated by the sun(s), and therefore producing material without limit.

Conclusion: Capitalism will not work on Atys -- nor should the game be adjusted to make capitalism and the economy of scarcity a viable mode of exchange.  This is not socialism, it is post-scarcity society.

The statement, "There has to be a balance between material and money" is an axiom based on the idea that there is an inherent scarcity of raw materials. This axiom is false to fact in Atys and therefore null and void.

There is nothing sacred about the idea of money.

I believe (from previous discussions), what Sarpe's is saying is that post merge, choice and lower mats **already are** harder than they were pre-merge. And yes, I did notice myself after merge that many of my regular choice grind mat spots were now bordering on areas such that you could expect 2 or 3 attacks per prospect rather than 1 every 3 or so proospects.

OTOH some mats (i.e. 250 Exe Zun in Void), were moved to ridiculously easy spots. I have compensated by digging basic instead of choice in desert where in other areas, some desired basic mats (for amp recipes) are quite difficult (middle of kincher spawn for example).

Note, I'm not saying desired mats should be easy but I also don't think that returning and newer players will be frustrated w/ DP, gear wear and tear and inefficient use of hard to find game time. This is exacerbated by the fact that the difficulty / efficiency level varies greatly between regions and faction TPs.

Post-scarcity economies are so different from reality that even those who can accept living on a rootball and casting spells at giant insectoids cannot extend their suspension of disbelief far enough to deal with. It causes problems in the minds of those who think every endeavor has to have winners and losers or a power structure that they can climb to the top of.

Just my two dappers worth.

There has never been a currency based economy in Ryzom, you can go back to the archived forums and Items for Sale were either bartered for other items or "grind mats". Tho I had mastered HA and MA if i wanted that +165 LA Focus set was gonna cost anywhere between 3,000 and 8,000 grind mats. In 14 years of play, I never bought a crafted item from a merchant.

And Gidget, you undersold yaself ... post was easily worth 57 dappie. And to extend G's point ... post merge the desire for "boosted" items has grown into a "must have". That means for every boosted amp, there's 19 premium amps out there that didn't boost, most of which are given away.

As for unlimited money ... it takes quite a while to get to that point in the post-merge economy. First thing I did after 2 minutes on Silan was head to the stable where I had a case of sticker shock and responded by taking my 4 alts over and stealing their starter cash. Just going about your normal business should be more than enough to pay for ya TPs and Mek Food. The 2 million for apartment and IIRC, 10 million for each capital city GH. takes a while but then it's clear sailing unless ya need to spring for that way outta line 90 million to restore NPC plans.

Just going about my business w/o double dipping w/ alts, I'd earn about 10 million a month from crafts and Occs. When I hit 12, I'll lose 10 to GH or handouts to new players and go from 2 to 12 again next month. Tho, of late, spending time on Tribe Fame, I'd say its cut in half.


But I don't wanna veer to far off the original post subject except that Mats is the current economy. And in that respect its very much like RL ... if ya born w/ a rich daddy, life is easy. And the point Sin is making is "What fun is it having a giant new yacht if everybody has one ? In Ryzom terms, it's not enough to have the biggest stick, it's about making it so that the guy you go up against has a smaller one.