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#91 Added by Ulukyn 5 years ago [fr] 

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Like say some days ago, changes on mission will be done step by step, hard to balance it correctly in a single shot.

We are working on it, and will apply some fixes soon.

About craft mission, the way to give dappers are different than all other missions.
The missions give the cost in dappers of the crafted items. So to adjust that we need change it, calculate the cost of each items and apply a bonus.
But will not enough, since some missions ask to craft 1 ammo.. for sure we can't reward this missions with 100k of dappers. So, some missions must be adjusted into objetives too.

About replay timer, since we can't change each mission one by one we have apply a formula to calculate the cooldown based on the reward. We will rework the formula to have something more easy like for example 10h, 15h, 20h or 30h and not X hours and Y mins

#92 Added by Luminatrix 5 years ago [fr] 

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Ulukyn
Like say some days ago, changes on mission will be done step by step, hard to balance it correctly in a single shot.

We are working on it, and will apply some fixes soon.

About craft mission, the way to give dappers are different than all other missions.
The missions give the cost in dappers of the crafted items. So to adjust that we need change it, calculate the cost of each items and apply a bonus.
But will not enough, since some missions ask to craft 1 ammo.. for sure we can't reward this missions with 100k of dappers. So, some missions must be adjusted into objetives too.

About replay timer, since we can't change each mission one by one we have apply a formula to calculate the cooldown based on the reward. We will rework the formula to have something more easy like for example 10h, 15h, 20h or 30h and not X hours and Y mins

Really glad to see you guys are working on it! Honestly, a lot of the anger from the community could be prevented if we got frequent updates from the dev team, just like this one. It won't work for everyone, of course, but a "we're on it" is quite reassuring to me.

---

Luminatrix

Explorer, storyteller, universalist, fighter for freedom and equality.

"Without contraries, there is no progression" - William Blake

#93 Added by Loved 5 years ago [fr] 

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As promised Ulukyn, I will update ALL my posts to say thank you for reaching out. Your customer service and real understanding matter a lot. 

Thank you for your messages and your efforts.
Ulukyn
Like say some days ago, changes on mission will be done step by step, hard to balance it correctly in a single shot.

We are working on it, and will apply some fixes soon.

About craft mission, the way to give dappers are different than all other missions.
The missions give the cost in dappers of the crafted items. So to adjust that we need change it, calculate the cost of each items and apply a bonus.
But will not enough, since some missions ask to craft 1 ammo.. for sure we can't reward this missions with 100k of dappers. So, some missions must be adjusted into objetives too.

About replay timer, since we can't change each mission one by one we have apply a formula to calculate the cooldown based on the reward. We will rework the formula to have something more easy like for example 10h, 15h, 20h or 30h and not X hours and Y mins

---

#94 Added by Maiyr 5 years ago

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Luminatrix
Honestly, a lot of the anger from the community could be prevented if we got frequent updates from the dev team,

I completely agree with this. There is a complete lack of communication between the deve team and the player base. I truly belve there would be less people rage quitting and quitting there subs if there was more communication.
Ulukyn
Like say some days ago, changes on mission will be done step by step, hard to balance it correctly in a single shot.

We are working on it, and will apply some fixes soon.

About craft mission, the way to give dappers are different than all other missions.
The missions give the cost in dappers of the crafted items. So to adjust that we need change it, calculate the cost of each items and apply a bonus.
But will not enough, since some missions ask to craft 1 ammo.. for sure we can't reward this missions with 100k of dappers. So, some missions must be adjusted into objetives too.

About replay timer, since we can't change each mission one by one we have apply a formula to calculate the cooldown based on the reward. We will rework the formula to have something more easy like for example 10h, 15h, 20h or 30h and not X hours and Y mins

Thank you for the update. It's greatly appreciated.

---



~ Ranger Aspirant ~ Officer of Fluffy Bunnies ~ Generally Mischievous ~

#95 Added by Placio 5 years ago [en] 

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Well unfortunately we did get updates, basically telling us that our concerns were not relevant..

Letting us know that the timer is connected to a global formula and would require more study, to see if it could even be changed, is much more helpful.

#96 Added by Gidget 5 years ago [en] 

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@Ulukyn - Thank you for addressing our concerns and letting us know we were heard. That means a lot!

* * * * *

@Luminatrix - It's not the fame or dappers or cooldowns so much as the imbalance and feeling forced to behave a certain way. I already go to multiple cities/tribes on multiple continents for overseer missions anyways, but that was by choice. Now it's no longer a choice; the decision is made for us all. And when you add in the Ranger-specific fame issues and the unique hassles of traveling Aeden Aqueous for camp tours/prospector mission (Greenvale is a looong swim from FH compared to the short jog Matis get, not that I'd do that for 40% of the rewards others get for the same thing), it's a bit hard to not feel punished for choices I feel are valid, like being a Trykette Ranger who enjoys her homeland more than the other regions. I've felt pressured to be Kara/Matis to match my guild/friends for most of the time I've played (which is a restriction I also dislike immensely, but that's a separate discussion), and now it feels far less optional.

Now more than ever, the mechanics are forcing me in ways I don't feel are right. Hopefully there will be tweaks that will lessen that feeling....

---

Do not assume that you speak for all just because you are the loudest voice; there are many who disagree that simply have no desire to waste words on you.

#97 Added by Arcueid 5 years ago [en] 

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Don't take this game too serious. If you think about it more like a hobby everything will be fine. I'm here for jena knows how many years, I saw many homins come and leave, devs come and leave, csr come and leave, but the game is still functional. It might not be the game I used to play and love, but I'm curious where it is headed.

arc

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#98 Added by Sinvaders 5 years ago [fr] 

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Ulukyn
Like say some days ago, changes on mission will be done step by step, hard to balance it correctly in a single shot.

Ulu, the thing is by pushed the first changes it just looks like nobody has acknowledge (or think maybe) of the real impact it will have in-game.
Pushing a big changes (which seemed very unbalanced) and then adjust it step by step is not a very nice way for doing this kind of things.
As I already said it multiples times: you should not rush for Jena patch but take a bit of more time to design/implement/test the actual thing and make a bigger patch when everything is ready.

In another hand, it's funny to see people afraid of loosing their way of getting income while a certain faction never had way to get dappers before this patch (and thanks for it!!).

#99 Added by Luminatrix 5 years ago [fr] 

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Sinvaders
Ulu, the thing is by pushed the first changes it just looks like nobody has acknowledge (or think maybe) of the real impact it will have in-game.
Pushing a big changes (which seemed very unbalanced) and then adjust it step by step is not a very nice way for doing this kind of things.
As I already said it multiples times: you should not rush for Jena patch but take a bit of more time to design/implement/test the actual thing and make a bigger patch when everything is ready.


I couldn't agree more. I would much rather have less frequent patches if the patches were better balanced. Slower patches are fine, especially if you pair them with a little communication, like telling us about how things are progressing every once in a while. I have seen this in other games, too - slow patches are fine, it's the silence that causes the community to grow uneasy.

---

Luminatrix

Explorer, storyteller, universalist, fighter for freedom and equality.

"Without contraries, there is no progression" - William Blake

#100 Added by Revvy 5 years ago [en] 

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Luminatrix
Sinvaders
Ulu, the thing is by pushed the first changes it just looks like nobody has acknowledge (or think maybe) of the real impact it will have in-game.
Pushing a big changes (which seemed very unbalanced) and then adjust it step by step is not a very nice way for doing this kind of things.
As I already said it multiples times: you should not rush for Jena patch but take a bit of more time to design/implement/test the actual thing and make a bigger patch when everything is ready.


I couldn't agree more. I would much rather have less frequent patches if the patches were better balanced. Slower patches are fine, especially if you pair them with a little communication, like telling us about how things are progressing every once in a while. I have seen this in other games, too - slow patches are fine, it's the silence that causes the community to grow uneasy.

(To both)

Another aspect of these patch stories and Ryzom that you guys don't seem to realize.
The team is really lacking of testers.

As a result, big change (that impact the whole server) cannot be tested entirely, or not at all.
And players want content update and big change :P
So well.. what to do?

You can still try to help with testing, asking Tamarea on RC.
Or serve as guinea pig for each patch.. or?

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Spoiler

#101 Added by Sinvaders 5 years ago [fr] 

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Very poor excuse.
It's just one more reason to take the time before pushing a patch.
The game have been living years without real additions, players can wait for things to be tested.

#102 Added by Revvy 5 years ago [en] 

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Excuse?
This is no excuse but reality here, and feel free to help instead.
Ofc time need to be taken, that not the point of my comment (but you don't seem to understand it).

Have a look at the Ranged weapons project now.

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Spoiler

#103 Added by Moniq 5 years ago [en] 

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Sinvaders
Very poor excuse.
It's just one more reason to take the time before pushing a patch.
The game have been living years without real additions, players can wait for things to be tested.

How long are you willing to wait?

Seriously, some changes are in test for a month or two. And after that time it is normal that Tamarea _begs_ to have at least one test report for each platform. While, by me, the reasonable minimum should be 15 (3 platforms x 5 languages). I see 51 names in the Testing team. Yes, not everyone is a tester, there are members of other teams who want or need to observe. But don't tell me it is 90%.

Testing is not much fun. It is long and repetitive work, even with testing tools (that DEVs develop along the way). It requires active attitude, it requires you to think in wide context. And it requires good knowledge of the game. Testing is not "do and forget". You need to come back to see if issues you have found were solved. And then you re-test it again, every single issue fix. While you look for any new regressions. And once someone decide it is good enough, it must all be tested again. And after it is released, you test it again. You must keep track of player issues and when those issues are solved somehow, the process starts again. Testing, re-testing, final testing and post-patch testing. And don't forget unofficial testing/helping aside the process, because all development time non-DEV can save, DEVs can use to work on something else.

And now, think about the fact that the Testing team is, as it looks to me, an usual start point for new volunteers. A volunteer comes to the team, learns basics, complete some testing in one or two patch cycles. And then simply leave, because it is as described above. Or find another place for himself/herself in another team. Or another team pull that volunteer for own projects - the lack of members is a problem for most of teams. And that volunteer has no or just a little time or will for any more future testing.

Yes you are right, testing is not the only problem and I personally do not understand why there is so rush with (some) changes when, by me, it is not ready to release yet. But it always ends with the testing. And we need much more testers than 2.5 or whats the average per change :/

#104 Added by Gidget 5 years ago [en] 

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Okay, I must be in an alternate universe now; I'm actually (at least mostly) agreeing with both Moniq and Revvy!

Testing takes a ton of dev-hours to do right, and often does not account for all of the ingenuously creative ways the end user (in this case, players) can and will use whatever is released. It's not fun, and it sucks up resources that could be used elsewhere. That's rough for a small team.

That said, there are times where something that is seen as "good enough" and sent prematurely can cause far more problems than waiting. And with Ryzom in particular, I think most of us who have been around a while are used to change happening slowly. We know the team is pretty small, and we have the math skills to know that for a given amount of dev-hours, less devs means more hours. I think that much of the recent kerfluffle may have been a rush to ship, which lead to not testing certain aspects (i.e. - like how equally this patch would treat all four factions, or how equally dynamic events treat each time zone) due to time constraints.

One thing that may help in the future is a combination of communication and patience. I suspect I'm not the only one that would rather hear, "This is a thing we're working on, but it's still not working as intended.", than have a repeat of this fiasco. Sure there will still be some mistakes made, but I think that at least a little more transparency would dampen unrest.

---

Do not assume that you speak for all just because you are the loudest voice; there are many who disagree that simply have no desire to waste words on you.

#105 Added by Sinvaders 5 years ago [fr] 

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@Moniq and Revvy.

It's a well known fact that the testing team is missing working force.
In my original post, I wasn't directly targeting the testing phase. The point was, pushing a big changes live and then fix the issue step-by-step is not a good approach (specially when the changes is meant to change people habits) and here I am not talking about testing the product before delivery.

About waiting, well, we have been waiting 2 years (something like that, I lost the count) before seeing a change related to a certain event (and the change was actually visible during the event but vanished at the next reboot) live on Atys... so waiting couple of months before a patch is more than OK.
Yes you are right, testing is not the only problem and I personally do not understand why there is so rush with (some) changes when, by me, it is not ready to release yet. But it always ends with the testing. And we need much more testers than 2.5 or whats the average per change :/
+10
One thing that may help in the future is a combination of communication and patience. I suspect I'm not the only one that would rather hear, "This is a thing we're working on, but it's still not working as intended.", than have a repeat of this fiasco. Sure there will still be some mistakes made, but I think that at least a little more transparency would dampen unrest.

It's more or less what I was insinuating with my initial message (don't rush for release, take more time, etc).

PS: I'm not saying this group or this group of people are doing BS.

Last edited by Sinvaders (5 years ago)

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