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#225 Added by Tamarea 4 years ago [fr]

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Tamarea
Ryzom Team Manager
(FR / EN / ES)
tamarea@ryzom.com

#226 Added by Tamarea 4 years ago [fr]

{translate}

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Tamarea
Ryzom Team Manager
(FR / EN / ES)
tamarea@ryzom.com

#227 Added by Nilstilar 4 years ago Multilingual

Multilingual | [English] | Français

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Ryzom Forge meeting report – April 26 2021

1 - Win players' loyalty: a more attractive game

Tamarea (RT) – 19:39 UTC

A 2021 marketing plan has been developed by the Ryzom Team, which pursues three goals:
1. Win players' loyalty
2. Get more subscribers
3. Attract new players
We will detail today the actions undertaken by the team to achieve the first objective, and your suggestions to enrich them will be welcome.

We are losing too many players, including high-level players, because of the lack of new content to motivate them to log in, because the long-promised additions are still overdue, and because the pace of maintenance remains slow.
That's why we decided to focus on the projects already underway and on maintenance. Specifically:
• To complete ongoing and long-announced projects: new launcher/installer, Boss refactoring, outpost battles refactoring, Marauders' gameplay, balancing of range weapons (see information given during previous Ryzom Forge meetings).
• To add new events to the Storyline on a regular basis, each leading to new permanent gameplay content.
• To not neglect maintenance: fixing bugs, adding new rewards, etc.
The upcoming patch will begin to put some of this content into play, with the activation of the test outposts of the Nexus and the gradual addition of the new Bosses.
• To encourage roleplay which, while remainining of course optional, is one of the raisons d’être of the MMORPG Ryzom. So, to make roleplayers want to stay, the team is working on two axes:
• School of initiation to role-playing (in project)
• Regular (weekly) events, impacting or not the History of Atys

Do you have any questions or comments about these actions?

Four comments:
• I confirm my availability to carry on with the tests needed for the rebalancing of range weapons I started in the past with Tykus and to participate in the tests of outpost battles.
• If we want to win their loyalty, I think we first need to find the reasons why new players are currently leaving the game. I'm thinking especially of crashes: new players (especially the current generation) having an abundance of games at their disposal, they have no problem abandoning a game after an umpteenth crash.
• As far as roleplay is concerned, I think it's a pity that the weekly events are almost all one-shots, episodes with no aftermath, that they don't build, little by little, a Story. However, I thank the team for the frequency and the quality of the events proposed to the casual roleplayers (of which I am).
• As for me, I think that the weekly events do build a Story, but that this one is difficult to follow because of its scattering, via the events, in several different episodes in different places. As a result, it is difficult for many Atysians to gather these episodes into a Story (difficult, but not impossible should you explore the Wiki and the messages posted to the forum). Perhaps grouping the events by month and nation (i.e. one month's worth of History episodes about Trykers, then one month's worth of History episodes about Zorai, etc.) would improve things... except that it would be felt as unfair by the uninvolved nations of the month. *frown*
In short: if, for me, a coherent History is on the way, I unfortunately have no idea what would help to make it better known to all.

Thank you for your feedback, which will of course be passed on to Event team.

2 - Win players' loyalty: an improved tutorial

Ulukyn (RT) – 20:07 UTC

In order to increase player loyalty, in addition to offering more attractive game content, we will work to better guide new players. We actually lose a lot of them shortly after they arrive on the tutorial island of Silan. After investigating the causes of this, we agreed on a possible remediation. This is how the Silan refactoring project was born, which will not result in a big change but only in various adjustments and improvements.
The objective of this refactoring is twofold:
• on the one hand, give the desire to new players to go further (at the moment very few of them take the step - i.e. pass to the continent);
• on the other hand, try to make the global experience of the game more homogeneous (at the moment, as Dorothée – may she be thanked – pointed out during the RT meeting preparing this one, there are too many differences between the game on Silan and the one on mainland).
Said Improvements and adjustments are planned for:
• The map of Silan Island. To make it more useful for beginners it:
   • will no longer be shown to players alone, but with the general map of Atys;
   • will allow the player to zoom in on the Ranger Camp (as is the case on the mainland towns);
   • will display icons showing the location of NPCs useful to players (at their stage of progress).
• Texts describing missions that are currently unclear, such as those that present a team-building suggestion as a necessity to players who cannot (or do not know how to) form a team.
• Damages from creature attacks near the Ranger Camp. They will be reduced as it currently causes too many deaths. Character dying too frequently suggests to players that the game is not for them, or that they have misunderstood the rules, increasing the risk that they will abandon Ryzom without delay.

Three comments:
• As for damage reduction, I would say that it has already been started, considering the speed with which the DP is cancelled on Silan. And if the player fears the death of his characters, let him go play Candy Crush! *smile*
• I think this is a bit too much easing the work for beginners. Many times some of them don't even understand that Silan is a tutorial.
• Most of the new players don't even seem to read the texts said by (or posted near) the Silan trainers (Guilan Guiter, Nomis Merclao, etc.). I think they should be offered other ways of learning.

3 - Win players' loyalty: a friendlier learning process

Ulukyn (RT) – 20:14 UTC

Actually, few players take the time to read everything (this is natural: the excitement of discovering a new game pushes them to immediate action, not to think about its mechanisms).
So I'm going to show you what we have planned to overcome the disadvantages of this understandable haste.
We won't rewrite the mission texts: it would require too much time. But I've noticed, when accompanying players who don't know Ryzom in their first session, that displaying an adapted screenshot on their screen was often more efficient than giving them a long speech to explain them such or such gameplay mechanism.
This is why we will introduce the concept of schools (or academies) whose function will be to provide in-game "Academic Knowledge" that will be available, at any time, to all players and delivered in the form of practical lessons that will guide them, in a visual and playful way, in the accomplishment of the missions as well as in their actual learning. Each school will contain several pieces of information about a gameplay topic (e.g., the mastery of magic or that of jewelry) or a more general topic (e.g., the game's interface, or even, as mentioned above, role-playing).
Below a prototype, for the school of "Melee fight mastery", of a window showing in game the information made available by a school.

It presents a teaching plan with four sections (or lessons), which can be activated (if your progress allows it) or not (greyed out) so that you do not get lost in a long list. When you activate a lesson, a list of exercises to do (presented in the form of cards) will be proposed to you. Once you have completed all the exercises on this list, you will be offered a reward.
You will find below a prototype, for "Elementary Movements", of a sheet describing such an exercise.

It is composed of four parts displaying respectively:
• A title with a short explanation in subtitle
• An illustrated goal, optional (button to click for acceptance)
• A small reward, optional (button to be clicked for recovery once the goal reached)
• A set of pictures to make it easier to understand how to reach the goal.
Why, you may ask, propose an objective and a reward and not only the explanation and the illustrations? Quite simply because proposing an action in exchange for a reward is more motivating and fun, much more so than a long explanation text.

Do you have any questions?

Q: Are there any plans to rework the character creation phase as well?
A: No. Not as part of the Silan refactoring, anyway.

Q: Does Silan refactoring include informing new players about the existence of teleports on the island (many don't know)?
A: Yes. The goal is for new players to get on Silan a real taste of what to expect on the mainland.

Q: Will the enhanced tutorial use the key assignments listed in the player's keys_character.xml file?
A: Yes. And by the way, the player will be able to change these assignments in-game through the exercise cards provided by the school, without having to search for the relevant window in the (very dense) UI.

Q: Since it is difficult to accumulate Dappers on Silan, will the cost of teleporting there be changed?
A: No. But players will be able to get more Dappers through the exercises offered by the schools (they will often offer them as rewards).

Q: Will Silanese be able to buy mounts?
A: Yes. The refactoring includes the establishment of a stable on the island.

Q: I don't think a tutorial should have hidden or secret places. So, will the tunnel to the Kitins Jungle be easier to find, or will there be better directions to its location in the Shining Lake?
A: The access to the Kitins Jungle was intentionally designed as a (little) puzzle, so we don't have anything like that planned, no. But we'll think about making the mission sending players to fight the kitins into their territory more explicit.

Q: Will players be able to take a mektoub acquired on Silan to the mainland?
A: Yes, as forcing players to give up their equipment would be as counter-productive for us (given the goal of the refactoring) as it would be catastrophic for them.

Q: Henchomins of the Kamis and Karavan on Silan are currently urging caution by suggesting that returning to the island will be difficult, if not impossible. Will their speeches be more supportive (like "I can send you there. It's a dangerous place, but you can come back here anytime.") after the refactoring?
A: Yes. It's a great idea and we will implement it!

Q: Because a mount is also (or even mostly) a storage space and what it stores is not always easily recoverable after its death, we see few characters moving mounted, on Atys. Couldn't an option of remote recovery of the mount's freight be proposed?
A: We are working on this: a new feature to allow recovery of any dead pet against Elyps is being tested. Offering such an option on Silan would actually be a good introduction to Elyps for new players, provided the cost of acquiring them is adapted.

Q (off-topic): Regarding Elyps, even if the benefits they provide are valuable (generic materials, high quality items, pet operations, etc.) I find them very scarcely distributed during kitin invasions: killing one kitin is rewarded with one Elyps only. Are there any plans to improve this ratio or to provide kitin invasions more frequently than they have been lately?
A: No. But we take note of your feeling.

4 - Win players' loyalty: comments and suggestions

(21:03 UTC)
• Silan offering beginners more opportunities and a good overview of what awaits them on the mainland, to avoid their early flight, that's fine. But I think we shouldn't make them too rich on the island: that might make them stay there, never to take the plunge.
Ulukyn points out in this regard that nothing offered by the refactored Silan will be free, and that no player staying on the island will be able to accumulate the millions of Dappers and thousands of Elyps that can be collected on the mainland.
• I too think that setting the cost of acquiring items new in Silan lower than it is on the mainland is to be preferred to setting a higher amount for the Dappers rewarding the completing of the current missions.
Whereupon Ulukyn solicits the opinion of a beginner player attending the meeting on the point.
• (from the said player) As far as Dappers are concerned, I would not increase the amounts distributed in any way. As for the skill points, on the other hand, maybe we should reduce the need for them or increase the quality of the items they provide. Since it's not easy on Silan to get all the skills.
Reacting to this last point, Ulukyn indicates that the difficulty of choosing skills on Silan as well as the fact that not everything can be acquired there was discussed within the team and that a proposal was made to classify them (thanks to groups of stars) according to their greater or lesser usefulness… whereupon a participant proposes to straightly suppress the beginning of their acquisition on Silan.
• Some players are already surprised that the shooting skills are not available on Silan. So I think that removing them all is to be avoided. As for the star rating of skills, it risks "formatting" the game. I like Ryzom because it doesn't force me to push a certain skill but allows me, after reading all the texts about them, to freely choose which one(s) my character will work on.
Ulukyn says that, as the team wants to improve the branch and introduce it to new players, a shooting school will be offered on Silan. Because, he adds, only an informed one is actually a truly free choice and informing about skills is not forcing to embrace them, as giving them would be (as some MMOs do). On which the previous speaker clarifies that it is not the information on skills that makes fear a formatting of players, but their classification.
• For me, I think the tutorial should make it clear that getting more skilled on melee is the best way to get extra hit points and also that it would benefit from pointing to the Bunny Tools app.
Ulukyn clarified that while Bunny Tools is indeed a good app, it is and will remain external. He adds that each school will teach a path (a branch) with a precise indication of the necessary and useful skills to be acquired to follow the path in question and, as much as possible, the possibilities offered by the different blends of those. The goal remains to give players all the information they need to make an informed choice.
• Silan is in my opinion a pretty complete tutorial as it is now. So, if adding icons to better indicate this or that point seems useful to me, the rest of the refactoring is not, I think, a good idea. Because giving everything to new players as soon as Silan will deprive them of the surprise of discovering Atys. Simplify Silan, why not? But from there to make it a mini-Atys… we might as well remove it and make new players be born directly on Atys.
Ulukyn recalls that it is not a question of turning Silan into a mini-Atys, but only of making sure that Silan gives new players the means to be autonomous, to know what and how to look for on Atys as soon as they set foot there. Because currently, arriving on the mainland is a surprise, yes: to discover almost another game. So the refactoring is not about remaking Atys on Silan, but about providing tantalizing glimpses of Atys on Silan.
• The fact remains that the pleasure of discovery, even of a "quasi-new" game, is what makes Ryzom a unique game. And as for the autonomy on the continent, it can be obtained quite quickly by new players thanks to the help of the seasoned ones, as it is currently practiced.
(Ulukyn goes on) Today, new players arriving on Atys know nothing about what awaits them there. In order to encourage them to join the mainland, we think it is important to let them know (without, of course, going into details) that they will find many more means and activities (Elyps, occupations, role-playing, dynamic events, etc.) than just the dappers, missions and skill acquisitions that they are currently presented while on Silan.
• I actually think that there is too much information available on mainland and not enough on Silan, except for the classes (branches), for which the ratio is the opposite.
• Integrating the Silan map with the Atys one is a great idea: it will make new players curious about the mainland and show them that the have still much to explore.
• Many players I know have actually left Ryzom thinking that the playing field was limited to Silan. For the same reason, some have played Ryzom for only two months… time to exhaust the pleasures of Silan.
This Ulukyn confirms by saying that one of the first questions he is asked when he has the game tested is: "Is this the map of the entire game area?".
• When I was on Silan, I actually had the feeling that I was alone, playing on a map that was empty of players. And it didn't make me want to go on. That's why I think it would be good to encourage experienced players to come back to the island more often.
Ulukyn points out that the lessons offered by the Silan schools will probably not only be of interest to new players, but also to players not so experienced for having only recently joined the mainland. The latter will then naturally be led to return to Silan to complete the incomplete training they have received from the current tutorial.
• To fight against this feeling of loneliness of the beginner, wouldn't it also be wise to replace the /who command by a button of UI, of easier use for all?
Ulukyn advises the speaker to post his suggestion to the forum. Because the latter is regularly consulted by contributors who are developers, therefore able to propose the RT a patch implementing it.
• Why not carry out, at the time when the players address to Chiang the Strong to emigrate towards the continent, a survey of satisfaction in order to collect their feelings and opinion on Silan?
Ulukyn indicates that such a survey has already been conducted by him with players who, at his request, tested the game with him during three days. He adds that it has been used, as well as the occasional feedback received from new players and a very critical video about Ryzom (which, if you don't already know it, you can find here), to elaborate the tutorial improvement project presented today.
• Will players, at the said time, be advised to contact the Welcomer of the city they have chosen as destination for their journey to the mainland?
Ulukyn says yes, because the team believes that anything that helps new players find their way around is a good thing, no matter what form it takes (text, school lesson, or visual cue), and that if they don't know what they can (or can't) do there, they're unlikely to enjoy the game.
• Having personally benefited on my arrival from the free services of a quality teacher (an experienced player) I confirm that the rules guaranteeing a good learning of the game rules (and their respect) by players must themselves be learned.
• Some elements of the UI seem to me deserve to be corrected or made adaptable. For example, the size of the cursor in 4K: as, playing on a 55" screen, I already have trouble seeing it, I wonder how others cope.
Ulukyn commits himself to bring up the suggestion.
• As we all are not as good at learning foreign languages as some, I think an automatic translation of private in-game conversations (/tell) would also be very useful.
Ulukyn answers that unfortunately it is not possible to add such an option at the moment.

The meeting is closed at 22:09 UTC

Edited 4 times | Last edited by Nilstilar (4 years ago) | Reason: FR typos

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#228 Added by Mazenmar 3 years ago [fr]

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Ca me fait penser au Grand Bleu, quand Enzo fait repeindre sa vieille Topolina avec 3 couches de peintures...ça donne un peu de fraîcheur mais ça change pas ce qu'il y a sous la peinture...
En même temps (:)) c'est rassurant de savoir qu'un joueur comme moi peut partir pendant plus d'un an et retrouver le jeu (pratiquement) tel qu'il l'a laissé...
* La porte s'ouvre brusquement, le docteur interpelle l'infirmière,
- je vous avais dit de ne pas laisser Mazenmar aussi longtemps devant l'écran !
Le doc s'approche de Mazenmar,
- ben alors Mazenmar, ça va plus ? Et 'Esprit d'Atys, et la Lore...et toutes ces merveilleuse attractions un peu partout ?
Mazenmar tourne de grands yeux vides vers le doc
- c'est un supplice chinois doc, je subis cruellement les mêmes irritations depuis 6 ans, je veux partir, très loin, au fond de la kitinière et au-delà si c'est possible...
Le doc le regarde, désespéré devant sa détresse, que faire pour rendre l'espoir au vieux matis ? Il sait au fond de lui que Mazenmar s'enfonce de plus en plus dans ses vieux rêves...
- Allez Mazenmar, un cachet de Concensus 2000, ça va bien se passer !
Mazenmar avale le cachet, repars dans ses songes, revoie le Désert profond et les tribus de Fremens (* wink wink *)...du sable glisse dans ses mains...ses yeux se voilent...il n'est plus là.*

Last edited by Vynir (3 years ago)

#229 Added by Gidget 3 years ago [en]

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Just my two dappers...

Damages from creature attacks near the Ranger Camp. They will be reduced as it currently causes too many deaths. Character dying too frequently suggests to players that the game is not for them, or that they have misunderstood the rules, increasing the risk that they will abandon Ryzom without delay.

I think that the same is also needed on the road leading West from Yrkanis for much the same reason. While Fairhaven and Pyr are pretty safe, and Zora is okay so long as you leave by the South gate, I lost count of how many fresh-from-Silan Homins I've seen meet an untimely end along that road. Vigourous Gingos/Ragus are fine, and Growling aren't too bad for anyone that completed Silan, but multiple Scowling less than 400m from the gates along the road is a bit much. Level 46 mobs once you get past the Green Seeds camp on your way to Psykopla Knoll is fine, but that close to the city... I've seen more than one player quit as a result of that "challenge", so it might be worth changing.

Silan is in my opinion a pretty complete tutorial as it is now. So, if adding icons to better indicate this or that point seems useful to me, the rest of the refactoring is not, I think, a good idea. Because giving everything to new players as soon as Silan will deprive them of the surprise of discovering Atys. Simplify Silan, why not? But from there to make it a mini-Atys… we might as well remove it and make new players be born directly on Atys.
[i]Ulukyn recalls that it is not a question of turning Silan into a mini-Atys, but only of making sure that Silan gives new players the means to be autonomous, to know what and how to look for on Atys as soon as they set foot there. Because currently, arriving on the mainland is a surprise, yes: to discover almost another game. So the refactoring is not about remaking Atys on Silan, but about providing tantalizing glimpses of Atys on Silan.

[/i]
Experience guides opinion, and my experience is different. I did not learn of enchants at all from Silan, nor was there really any discussion of TPs, and Ranged Weapons were a mystery to me aside from seeing a few skills on the skill tree. I learned a lot of what I feel to be very basic information from older players long after doing the missions in Silan. And unlike a lot of newer players, I am an old-school TRPG player who knows and appreciated the value of reading what NPCs say. In fact, I was here a fair while before I realized Silan was merely a tutorial. While some information may technically be there, the presentation needs revamping so that new players can learn without a tutor. It's a lot better than it used to be, but is still a work-in-progress.

I see Silan as a way to learn the basics and pique the curiousity. While I agree that it should not be "mini-Atys", I also feel that new players that don't get mentored and are merely left in the hands of the NPCs won't even get enough info to get curious. And that is a shame. That's not to say that we should remove all of the mystery (far from it), but the current state of Silan errs on the side of too much mystery.

On a semi-related note, I think that the "sliding scale" XP rewards system also throws people. Another thing I've seen a lot over the years is questions like, "Why are these Sucking Yubos only giving me 300 XP when I used to get over 1000?". So maybe making it a little more obvious that character growth (XP) is related to relative challenge instead of merely body count would be helpful.

• Many players I know have actually left Ryzom thinking that the playing field was limited to Silan. For the same reason, some have played Ryzom for only two months… time to exhaust the pleasures of Silan.
This Ulukyn confirms by saying that one of the first questions he is asked when he has the game tested is: "Is this the map of the entire game area?".

That seems to be a common misconception. I saw a "How big is the map" video on Youtube that had an episode about Ryzom, and they were also surprised to learn about Mainland.

Last edited by Gidget (3 years ago)

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Do not assume that you speak for all just because you are the loudest voice; there are many who disagree that simply have no desire to waste words on you.

#230 Added by Margote 3 years ago Multilingual

Multilingual | [English] | Français

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Ryzom Forge meeting (June 14th 2021)

Date: monday, June 14th, 19:30 UTC (21:30 CEST)

Meeting places:

Atys, on the public forge channel

Ryzom Chat, channel #pub-forge-xx (exhttps://chat.ryzom.com/channel/pub-forge-en

Duration: 1.5 hour

Participants: all Ryzom players wishing to join.

Nature: informative, questions & answers and feedback meeting.
Topic: Added, in test and ready to be tested projects.

Agenda
[Feedback] Last patch
[Information] CoC update project

#231 Added by Nilstilar 3 years ago Multilingual

Multilingual | [English] | Français

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Ryzom Forge meeting report – June 14, 2021

1 - Feedback about the last patch

Ulukyn (RT) – 19:39 UTC

Below are the links to the latest patch applied:
    • Patch 868 of April 17, 2021
    • Patch 873 of April 20, 2021 (fix of patch 868)
Pour information, le contenu de ce patch est désormais complétement actif sur Atys.
Thus, we have added, among others :
   – lessons and rewards for the entire Storyline;
   – allegories that produce effects and Storyline missions to improve those effects;
   – activation of Nexus Minor outposts.
Please note that the form of the lessons (illustrated guides to the missions) from the Storyline will be used for the projects:
   – Silan refactoring (tutorial lessons)
   – New Encyclopedia (guide to the Rites lessons)

Are there any questions, remarks or feedback?

Silan refactoring

If I create a new character, will it be able to benefit from the new Silan, i.e. the new learning system (see Report of April 26, 2021 RF meeting) ?
Yes, and even the current characters of curious players will also be able to go to Silan for the new training.
When will this new learning be available in game?
The patch that will implement it is still in development, but its interface, as said, will be similar to the lessons currently offered in the Storyline.
I think it's important to promote team play, that's the beauty of Ryzom! So, are there any plans to add missions on Silan that will encourage beginners to play together?
It is not planned to add missions to Silan that are similar to the ones that are already available. But the future lessons in Silan will explain in more detail the advantages, possibilities and controls of playing in teams, guilds, factions, etc. So there will be lessons with simple objectives, for example to group or join a guild.

Rumors and Storyline

I had a little trouble understanding the new rumor system. The most confusing for me was to be led to an NPC holding the "What's up?" rumor, get to him/her, right-click, have "What's up?" in the bubble, click on it... and see displayed in the chatbox the explanation of what a hunter (for example) is doing. It took me a little while to figure out that I had to "Ask politely" and then click on the second "What's up?" that then appears.
Ulukyn answers that the bug is known, that it will be fixed in the next patch, and that until then, NPCs offering a "Who am I?" will no longer be chosen to hold a "What's up?"
Collecting rumors by simply following a given path is of little interest to me. So, will the next rumors put into play be easily found by indicating the position of the NPCs holding them or will this indication only be given for old rumors, not found in their time by the player?
The new rumors will be either in the "What's new? (for most of them) or in the Storyline (for those, regarding the same theme, whose gathering is a mission prescribed by this or that episode. In both cases, the position of the NPC to be asked will be given, but in the second case, the waiting time between two successive rumors will be longer than in the first case.
Regarding the Storyline missions, couldn't their in-game description more emphasize that the mission directs you to an NPC who will SURELY give you new information, but that you can complete the mission by asking other NPCs, if you know (or think you know) which ones?
Yes, this is relevant! But keep in mind that missions from completed Storyline episodes are (and will remain) available to players who were unable (or unwilling) to experience those episodes "live": not offering them a quick option could put them off. So, to answer the question, we could, for example:
– for the current episode: give the position of the character carrying the next rumor only after 20 hours have passed, thus favoring the "classic" search;
– for past episodes: give the position of the character holding the next rumor as soon as 20 minutes have passed.

Outposts refactoring

Can two guilds that don't have enough people in each of them join together into one for the time of an outpost test battle in Nexus?
Yes... For now, because it will not be possible later on, since these test battles are actually part of the development of the future outpost system.
I find the new features tested on the Nexus outposts very refreshing, but is reducing the time of outpost battles still the objective of the refactoring?
Yes. The only thing that remains to be determined is the strength of the defending NPCs, as the number of rounds will be reduced as a result.
In the last few months on Atys, we have seen several battles that go well beyond 10 rounds. Hence my question: by reducing the time of outpost battles, don't we risk impoverishing the strategies?
This debate has already taken place. Out of respect for the group that discussed and argued at length and finally reached an agreement, we will not go back on the decisions made. But there are still many points to be refined and your opinions, feedbacks and suggestions are still very welcome.

Allegories with effects

Regarding the effects of allegories, is the resurrection mentioned the "natural" one (at the chosen spawn point, once the coma is over) or the provoked one (via the spell cast by a benevolent player)?
It is the natural one exclusively.
I think I already benefited from an allegory effect without my character's stats being all restored to the advertised level. Can this be verified?
Yes, it will be done as soon as possible, on the Gingo test server.

Miscellaneous

Are the new Bosses now active as well?
They are only active in the Nexus at the moment, and will be active in the Prime Roots after the next patch, and then everywhere on Atys.
Prior to the last patch, my alt was rewarded for completing the Storyline prologue, but is now missing three 2607 rumors. Will this be fixed?
This bug may be specific to you... The best thing for you to do, I think, is to submit a ticket to Asssitance describing it.
Will the next patch include the translation file allowing, when acquiring a new skill, to display an intelligible message in the SYS. INFO channel?
Yes, this will probably be effective at the next server restart (so even before the next patch).

2 - CoC update project

Tamarea (RT) – 20:28 UTC

Regarding multiboxing as well as sanctions, we would like to update the Code of Conduct in the near future. So I'm going to tell you what we're planning to change.
As a reminder, the current Code of Conduct can be found here.
1 - Multiboxing and PvP
We currently have a problem of inaccuracy and even contradiction within the Code of Conduct (CoC):
In PvP zone, players not wanting to be attacked are asked to leave the zone. ==> Attacking a player in Nexus with 4 simultaneous accounts is therefore allowed.
Multiboxing is limited to 2 simultaneous accounts in Storyline events. ==> Attacking a player doing a Storyline mission in Nexus with more than 2 simultaneous accounts is therefore forbidden.
This, in addition to not taking into account the case of Super Nodes, also causes tricky tickets to be solved in Nexus.
So, to clarify the Code of Conduct, we will extend the 2 simultaneous accounts limit to all PvP, so to PvP on outposts, in PvP region (Super Nodes and Nexus included), and everywhere on Atys.
2 - Multiboxing during off-peak hours
The limitation of multiboxing in the CoC has had a positive impact on gaming during European game hours, but also a strong negative impact on the number of players during extra-european game hours (peak hours of play in countries like the USA, but during which the number of players connected to Ryzom is very low).
This last point poses an intractable problem for Ryzom in terms of marketing, which has financial repercussions.
In concrete terms, while the limitation causes no problem of play during European hours, the low number of players and the numerous time zones make it impossible, during off-peak hours, for you to access the high level game (Bosses, Marauder Bosses) unless you use more than 2 simultaneous accounts.
This makes us enter the vicious circle: Lack of players during off-peak hours ==> Not enough people to access the high level game ==> Unsubscription and leaving of the game ==> No one to welcome the new ones ==> Departure of the new ones ==> Lack of players during off-peak hours.
So, to give off-peak hours players access to high-level play again and to give us a chance to repopulate the server during these hours, we will be testing, during 1 month, the tolerance of 4 simultaneous accounts for everything but PvP during off-peak hours, from 22:00 UTC (0:00 CEST) to 05:00 UTC (07:00 CEST), the time when this tolerance is needed to be able to play at high level. If the community reception and impact on the number of connections/subscriptions on off-peak hours of this provision is positive, it will be added to the CoC after the test month, which will run from June 15th to July 15th.
3 - Addition of a penalty scale
Currently, the CoC does not provide for any intermediate sanction between 1 month suspension and lifetime ban: we will remedy this by adding a one-year suspension sanction (more details to come later).

I'll let you react on the three points: first on the first one (multiboxing and PvP), then we'll go on with the other two.

Will the previous bans for using 4 accounts at the same time be lifted?
Yes, but only between 22:00 UTC (0:00 CEST) and 05:00 UTC (07:00 CEST) and for 1 month, the time to test. We will then see if we integrate this point in the Code of Conduct.
As the off-peak period ends in the early afternoon for players in Australia and New Zealand, and that some European players might want to use their alts as well, I was wondering : if the test goes well and the community largely wants it, would you consider in the future the possibility of extending this increased tolerance to more time zones?
We chose these hours to test because they are off-peak hours in terms of connections. If the test is positive, we may adjust the time slot by one hour if needed. The goal is to allow players connected at off-peak times to also enjoy the high level game. This is not related to nationalities, so any player who is connected during these hours will benefit from the lifting of the limitation.
"Two simultaneous accounts limit to all PvP, so to PvP on outposts, in PvP region (Super Nodes and Nexus included), and everywhere on Atys.'' So this is the new rule except between 0:00 and 7:00 CEST, yes? The introduction sentence of point 1 gives another impression. Please confirm.
Yes, the 2 account limit is extended to all PvP 24 hours a day. The tolerance of 4 accounts (except for PvP) will be tested for 1 month during off-peak hours, so for the moment from 22:00 UTC (0:00 CEST) to 05:00 UTC (07:00 CEST). If the test is successful, we will include this off-peak tolerance in the Code of Conduct.
I would like a clarification the count of simultaneous accounts. Both me and my wife have 2 accounts each (she typically only plays 1 at a time). My 2 and her 2 are under different names but logged as same IP address. Just want to make sure this is not a problem.
In such a case (several accounts that can be used by different members of the same family), you should contact Support to inform them. Because it is necessary that when you are both in game with more than one account, it is clear to everyone that it is not the same person who controls all the accounts.
Is multiboxing, though prohibited on Storyline events, allowed on other events? Like OOC ones?
No, it is not allowed on events.
During the off-peak hours, will digging in a PvP zone with 4 accounts be allowed as long as the holder of those 4 accounts does NOT initiate PvP?
The idea behind this off-peak hours tolerance is to allow players to resume activities that have become impossible due to the low number of players connected during those hours. Yet, drilling is definitely possible with only one account, or, if you use a careplanner, only two accounts. So using 4 accounts for drilling is not necessary.
So if you are using 4 accounts in a PvP area and you get attacked, you are not allowed to retaliate, right? Because that would be against the CoC.
That's true. But, at least the CoC allows you to fight back with two accounts.
Will people who have been banned for life when one-year sanction did not exist be allowed to get a reconsideration for their situation?
Yes, we will be able to review cases upon request. However, of course, only those who could have benefited from the one-year suspension instead of the lifetime ban will be able to win their case.

3 - Off-ttopic questions

Two NPCs appeared lately at Marauder Camp: one trades karavan outpost materials for marauder outpost materials and the other provides crafting blueprints for the making of marauder outpost items. Would it be possible to provide the capitals with an NPC of the latter type, or at least allow everyone (and not just Marauders) to purchase his plans at the Marauder Camp, even if it means having to access them under invulnerability.
Yes, but it is the second suggestion that will be adopted.
Is it normal that the Ranger fame for Marauders cannot exceed -50?
Yes, because it is a dynamic fame, depending on other fames. Thus, a player's fame for Marauders cannot exceed the inverse of his/her fame for nations. Since a Ranger, by definition, has a fame of at least +50 among all nations, his fame for Marauders can never be more than -50.
Isn't this a bit of a contradiction with the Ranger roleplay?
No. Because my previous answer was about gameplay only: Marauding NPCs will mindlessly (obviously) rush any Ranger who would approach them, since a negative fame with a people indicates that the NPCs of that people do not like you (not the other way around).
On the other hand, fame has no effect on PCs and their roleplay: PCs from one people or faction can always heal and/or revive any PC from another people or faction if they want to, regardless of their fame for the latter people or faction. So it seems to me (the lorists could probably give you a better answer) that Ranger PCs must, if they want to conform to the Ranger creed, heal (or revive) a Marauder PC in trouble (or coma).

The meeting is closed at 21:50 UTC

Last edited by Nilstilar (3 years ago) | Reason: Fixes after Ulukyn's check

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#232 Added by Gidget 3 years ago [en]

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Nilstilar

As the off-peak period ends in the early afternoon for players in Australia and New Zealand, and that some European players might want to use their alts as well, I was wondering : if the test goes well and the community largely wants it, would you consider in the future the possibility of extending this increased tolerance to more time zones?

We chose these hours to test because they are off-peak hours in terms of connections. If the test is positive, we may adjust the time slot by one hour if needed. The goal is to allow players connected at off-peak times to also enjoy the high level game. This is not related to nationalities, so any player who is connected during these hours will benefit from the lifting of the limitation.

While I understand that it's not intended to be related to nationalities, it is impossible for it to not be related. There is no escaping the fact that the majority of the US is in four different time zones, and Australia is on the other side of the planet. East Coast Americans will only be minorly affected (1800-0100 EDT), but us West Coast Americans (1500-2200 PDT) may have our evenings impacted, and anyone in Australia who works a normal daytime job will simply never see the off-peak hours (0800-1500 AEST; 0600-1300 AWST).

It's worth testing, but my thinking is that there will probably be fewer non-EU players with more than 2 accounts, and that it may be seen by some as a form of favoritism regardless of intent which may have additional repercussions. We won't know for sure without testing, of course. I might be wrong. I hope I'm wrong. We'll see.

This is a very tricky issue with no easy solutions.

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Do not assume that you speak for all just because you are the loudest voice; there are many who disagree that simply have no desire to waste words on you.

#233 Added by Elke 3 years ago [en]

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Gidget

Nilstilar
[b]As the off-peak period ends in the early afternoon for players in Australia and New Zealand, and that some European players might want to use their alts as well, I was wondering : if the test goes well and the community largely wants it, would you consider in the future the possibility of extending this increased tolerance to more time zones?

I have the impression that you understand it the wrong way: the general limit is 2 accounts: In European night time (22 UT - 5 UT) four accounts are allowed. So why would it impact the multi accounts outside Europe more than in Europe? Also: reducing this the the very intention...

That said, basically everything can be done with 2 accounts other than killing certain bosses - where you then need 2 or 3 actual players.

Edited 2 times | Last edited by Elke (3 years ago)

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#234 Added by Gidget 3 years ago [en]

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Elke

I have the impression that you understand it the wrong way: the general limit is 2 accounts: In European night time (22 UT - 5 UT) four accounts are allowed. So why would it impact the multi accounts outside Europe more than in Europe? Also: reducing this the the very intention...That said, basically everything can be done with 2 accounts other than killing certain bosses - where you then need 2 or 3 actual players.

I fully understand that there will be fewer European quad-boxers, but I have the impression that you do not understand my criticism. And that's fine; I'm far from the most eloquent, and depressingly accustomed to being misunderstood. Let me attempt to clarify my thinking.

In Eastern US/Canada night time (1800-0100 EDT) four accounts are allowed. No problem. In fact, they make out quite well as they have practically unrestricted quad-boxing privilieges unless they have truly odd sleep schedules. Lifting the restrictions will work as intended. And I will concede that half of the US population is in that time zone, so if you can only pick one time zone to get more North Americans on, that's the one you should pick.

In Western US/Canada afternoon/evening time (1500 to 2200 PDT) four accounts are allowed. Quad-boxers might have to log off two alts at some point, especially if they are night owls who don't go to bed early. It may or may not be worthwhile for them to have more than two accounts, so the effectiveness of lifting the restriction is questionable. If I ran 3-4 accounts, this would make me drop a subscription or two, and I have a hard time believing that there aren't any other left-coasters that feel the same.

In Australian day time (0800-1500 AEST; 0600-1300 AWST) four accounts are allowed. Except for the people in Western Oz that want to play for an hour or so before work, they will simply never be on when four accounts are allowed except on weekends. And Asians and Pacific Islanders are also in/near the same time zones. It simply would make no sense for them to bother with more than two accounts, period. Just as it makes little sense for European players that generally are not up between midnight and 7.

So we have something that helps half of North America, doesn't really do much for the other half, and doesn't do a thing for pretty much anyone else around the Pacific Rim. That limits the benefits of allowing four accounts in ways that feed my skepticism. There is also an (unfortunately unavoidable) inequality there that just rubs me the wrong way. Combine that inequality with the dubious effectiveness and you will get pretty close to the reason for my having reservations about this whole thing.Does that clarify anything?

Like I said, I hope to be proven wrong, and we won't know if we don't test it. But if I'm even partially right, I hope that my input will help craft a more effective solution.

Edited 2 times | Last edited by Gidget (3 years ago)

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Do not assume that you speak for all just because you are the loudest voice; there are many who disagree that simply have no desire to waste words on you.

#235 Added by Erisapple 3 years ago [en]

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Gidget, I envy your ability to use timezones.

The short of it is that the times were chosen because it's when the population is consistently the lowest. It's definitely not perfect but it is something to try to help fill some gaps in making teams for bosses and other activities. And hopefully a few more homins around if fresh ones need answers. Perhaps it can be expanded after the trial month.

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ErisApple
Homin Reaper Karavan

#236 Added by Tamarea 3 years ago Multilingual

Multilingual | [English] | Français

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Ryzom Forge meeting (July 12th 2021)

Date: monday, July 12th, 19:30 UTC (21:30 CEST)

Meeting places:

Atys, on the public forge channel

Ryzom Chat, channel #pub-forge-xx (exhttps://chat.ryzom.com/channel/pub-forge-en

Duration: 1.5 hour

Participants: all Ryzom players wishing to join.

Nature: informative, questions & answers and feedback meeting.Topic: Added, in test and ready to be tested projects.

Agenda
-Test of Ryztart, the new Ryzom installer/launcher
-Upcoming update of the Code of Conduct
-Events in july and august
-Recrutement: Event team

Last edited by Tamarea (3 years ago)

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Tamarea
Ryzom Team Manager
(FR / EN / ES)
tamarea@ryzom.com

#237 Added by Nilstilar 3 years ago Multilingual

Multilingual | English | [Français]

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Compte-Rendu de la réunion de Ryzom Forge – 12 juillet 2021

1 - Test de Ryztart, le nouvel installeur/lanceur de Ryzom

Ulukyn (RT) – 19:39 UTC

Je vous informe que Ryztart est arrivé a un stade plutot satisfaisant (même s'il reste quelques petites choses à paufiner et traductions qui pourraient manquer).
Il est désormais assez stable pour le proposer en version beta sur le site web de Ryzom, du moins les version Linux et Windows (la version Mac n'as pas été finalisée). Nous ferons également un post sur le forum pour avoir vos retours. En attendant je vous donne ici les liens pour les téléchargements :
• pour Linux >>> https://me.ryzom.com/ryztart_installer_x86_64.tgz
• pour Windows >>> https://me.ryzom.com/ryztart_installer_amd64.exe (il ne s'agit que de version 64b, pour ceux si sont encore en 32b, patience).
Il n'est pas nécessaire de désinstaller ryzom_installer, ni même Ryzom, mais il est par contre fortement conseillé de sauvegarder les dossiers 0/ 1/ 2/ 3/… qui contiennent vos sauvegardes et qui se trouvent dans :
• sous Windows >>> C:/Users/<USERNAME>/AppData/Roaming/Ryzom
• sous Linux >>> ~/.local/share/Ryzom
Vous trouverez plus d'informations sur le wiki.
Voilà pour Ryztart. Des questions ou des commentaires ?

Je teste Ryztart depuis un moment et dans l'ensemble, c'est vraiment plus simple d'utilisation, ce qui est top. J'ai par contre une question, la plupart du temps, je reste bloqué sur « Checking » et je dois relancer l'installer pour que cela fonctionne. Est-ce quelque chose qui a déjà été remonté ?
Oui plusieurs retours et plusieurs raisons pour que ça bloque (en fait, un crash et ça bloque). Je ne peux donc pas assurer que tout est correct, il peut y avoir des cas particuliers qui bloquent. Si ça se reproduit vous pouvez l'indiquer sur le canal de test ou sur le forum et je vous contacterai (ne postez pas de copie de la fenêtre debug, elle pourrait afficher des données sensibles).
Est-ce que ce nouvel outil sera obligatoire ou sera-t-il possible de s'en passer ? Notamment lors de l'application des patchs ?
Ryztart reste compatible avec ryzom_installer. En fait, avec l'option pour patcher sans passer par Ryztart, en gros, tout est possible. Ryztart lance le client avec une option no-patch (puisqu'il patche déjà). Mais le client est toujours capable de se patcher lui-même et il est également possible d'utiliser le ryzom_patcher.
Où les sources sont-elles publiées et sous quelle licence ?
On les trouve ici, sous GPL Affero (peut-être pas la licence la mieux adaptée).

2 - Mise à jour prochaine du Code de Conduite

Tamarea (RT) – 20:05 UTC

Nous allons mettre d'ici peu le Code de Conduite à jour au niveau de la partie concernant le ''Multiboxing'', les règles de courtoisie et les sanctions. Je vais vous présenter ce que nous allons changer.
Pour rappel, l'actuel Code de Conduite est consultable ici (cliquez sur le drapeau de langue pour en changer).
Ajout d'une échelle de pénalités
Ajout (dans B. Avertissements et sanctions) d'une échelle de sanctions pour « infraction majeure »' : 1 semaine de suspension / 1 mois de suspension / 1 an de suspension (NOUVEAU) / Interdiction définitive.
Précision dans les règles de courtoisie
Ajout (dans I.7. Mauvais comportement sur un canal de discussion du jeu (serveur de jeu, IRC, forums et Rocket chat inclus)) de ceux homophobes dans la liste des propos prohibés.
[b]Modifications concernant le Multiboxing et le PvP & Multiboxing pendant les heures creuses[b]
Trois ajouts dans III.4 Multiboxing, à savoir :
a) Ajout de toutes les situations JcJ à la liste de celles soumise à limitations : pour clarifier le code de conduite, nous allons étendre la limite de 2 comptes simultanés à tout le JcJ, donc au JcJ sur les avant-postes, dans les régions JcJ (c'est-à-dire y compris les spots magiques et le Nexus), et partout sur Atys.
b) Ajout d'un nouveau paragraphe régissant le multiboxing pendant les heures creuses : pour permettre aux joueurs américains d'accéder à nouveau au jeu de haut niveau et pour nous donner une chance de repeupler le serveur pendant les heures américaines, nous testons actuellement (jusqu'au 15 juillet) la tolérance de 4 comptes simultanés pour tout sauf le JcJ pendant les heures creuses, de 22h UTC à 5h UTC (0h-7h CEST), donc pendant les heures où c'est nécessaire pour un gameplay correct. Comme l'accueil de la communauté et l'impact sur le nombre de connexions/abonnements américains sont positifs, cette règle sera ajoutée au CdC dans quelques jours, comme suit.
III.4.4 Multiboxing pendant les heures creuses
Le multiboxing est toléré pour un maximum de quatre comptes simultanés pour toutes les activités, à l'exception du JcJ, pendant les heures où il s'agit d'une nécessité de jeu en raison du faible trafic sur les serveurs de jeu (22h-10h UTC, c'est-à-dire 0h-12h CEST).
c) Ajout d'un résumé des règles du multiboxing, comme suit.
Aux heures où le serveur de jeu est suffisamment fréquenté - 10:00 UTC-22:00 UTC (12:00 CEST-00:00 CEST)
Multiboxing limité à 2 comptes simultanés pendant :
  • JcJ
  • Chasse aux Rois
  • Assaut des Boss Maraudeurs
  • Événements scénarisés de la Storyline
Multiboxing toléré à 4 comptes simultanés pour toute autre autre activité.
Aux heures de faible trafic du serveur de jeu - 22:00 UTC-10:00 UTC (00:00 CEST-12:00 CEST)
Multiboxing toléré à 4 comptes simultanés pour toutes activités sauf JcJ.
Vous avez des commentaires ou des questions ?

Je voudrais juste deux confirmations : les invasions kitines ne sont pas des événements scénarisés et 4 comptes simultanés c'est bien possible à tout moment ?
Oui. Les events scénarisés sont très souvent des missions, et le PNJ qui les donne arbore une icône Storyline. Seule exception pour le moment : les bornes de cartographe.
Donc, quelle que soit l'heure, je peux avoir 4 comptes connectés en même temps sauf pour les activités citées ?
Oui.
Je voulais juste clarifier les règles concernant le JcJ. Peut-on emmener plus de deux personnages dans les régions JcJ (comme la Route des Ombres) dès lors qu'on ne les engage pas tous dans un combat JcJ ?
Oui, 4 personnages peuvent se trouver simultanément dans une région JcJ, à condition de ne pas mener de combat JcJ avec plus de 2 d'entre eux. Mais attention : ces deux là seuls peuvent participer au combat (guérisons et résurrections comprises), et en cas de défaite, les deux autres ne peuvent s'engager à leur tour (reprendre le combat).
Lors du changement d'heure (pour l'heure d'hiver), les heures désignées resteront-elles à l'heure d'Europe centrale ?
Je ne peux pas vous répondre de suite à ce propos, mais nous allons faire en sorte que cela ne pénalise pas ceux qui jouent aux heures de faible fréquentation du serveur.
Devons-nous vous signaler les joueurs en infraction ou êtes-vous en mesure de vérifier si quelqu'un fait du multiboxing pendant la chasse aux Rois ou toute autre activité prohibée mentionnée ?
Si vous constatez qu'il y a abus (plus de 2 comptes simultanés sur un Roi, etc…), vous devez envoyer un ticket à support@ryzom.com, accompagné d'une capture d'écran ou d'une vidéo montrant les 3 ou 4 personnages ainsi que la date et l'heure en jeu (radar ou carte).
Si, dans une région JcJ, un de mes personnages se fait tuer mais que je n'ai pas envie de me battre en PvP, puis-je soigner mon personnage avec un troisième ?
C'est un cas particulier, nous y réfléchirons au sein de l'équipe d'Assistance.

3 - Events en juillet et août

Tamarea (RT) – 21:03 UTC

Comme il y a beaucoup d'absents en juillet et août, tant parmi les joueurs que les animateurs, les events de la Storyline ainsi que les events de nations et factions habituellement proposés par l'Équipe d'animation (un par semaine) sont mis en pause jusqu'en septembre.
L'été laisse la place aux events joueurs, aux mini-boss, invasions kitines, events d'ambiance… Les Jeux d'Atys devraient être de retour pendant tout le mois d'août.
Des questions ?

4 - Recrutement : Équipe d'animation

Tamarea (RT) – 21:06 UTC

Nous cherchons des bénévoles souhaitant aider à écrire des scénarios d'event, ou bien souhaitant devenir acteurs en incarnant un personnage lors des events que nous jouons.
La formation est assurée, et l'entrée dans le jeu d'acteur se fait très progressivement pour laisser le temps à la recrue de prendre ses marques.
Rejoignez-nous pour bénéficier de cette expérience unique !
Pour postuler, contactez exclusivement Tamarea à [i]tamarea@ryzom.com[i].

5 - Questions diverses

(21:07 UTC)

Quels sont les projets pour la faction Maraudeurs ? Est-il prévu de continuer à la développer bien qu'elle compte désormais très peu de joueurs (environ 5 actifs) ?
Oui nous continuons à la développer, d'ailleurs le prochain épisode de la Storyline la mettra en avant. Si vous voulez en savoir plus, vous pouvez demander à rejoindre le groupe de travail sur le gameplay maraudeur et participer à son développement.
Je sais bien que les gens veulent du nouveau contenu pour Ryzom, mais puis-je demander, au nom de beaucoup de joueurs, que les quêtes de l'Encyclopédie soient examinées, s'il vous plaît (beaucoup sont boguées et certaines complèttement hors-service) ?
Nous avons un peu avancé sur le sujet en préparant un outil qui permettra de faire des ajouts plus facilement sur l'Encyclopédie.
À propos des Maraudeurs… Les boss légers et moyens vont-ils arriver un jour ? Et le butin des boss légers pourrait-il inclure le pantalon et la robe, ou sont-ce articles réservés au animateurs ? Et ne pourrait-on changer les couleurs des robes maraudeuses actuellement gagnables (via points JcJ) en bleu, blanc, noir et rouge ? Et inclure enfin les robes des couleurs des autres boss actuels dans le butin lâché par Dante et Pei-Ruz ?
Ce sont des questions intéressantes, pourriez-vous les exposer sur le forum des idées pour Ryzom s'il vous plaît ?
Quand aurons-nous la faction Trytoniste ?
Le jeu trytoniste peut bien sûr se faire en roleplay, mais nous n'avons pas prévu de le développer en gameplay.

La réunion est close à 21:48 UTC

Edited 5 times | Last edited by Nilstilar (3 years ago) | Reason: FR typo

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#238 Added by Jorgensen 3 years ago [en]

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Regarding new players in Silan - a huge part of why i kept playing more than a week is that at the time there were advanced players there who spent most of their time helping the noobs. I met them almost instantly. It gave me a sense that this was a community. I know many people still help the newcomers in silan, but we should remember to encourage these silan mentors for the work they do to keep people playing. Perhaps even make mentoring an official thing?

#239 Added by Wixarika 3 years ago Multilingual

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J’ai aussi l’agréable souvenir d’avoir été aidée sur Silan par quelques joueurs qui m’ont reçu d’une façon exceptionnelle. Avec de la rigueur et du sérieux, ils m’ont conseillé pour pouvoir avancer dans le jeu. Je ne citerai pas leurs noms car j’ai peur d’oublier quelqu’un. Mais je suis complètement d’accord avec l’idée d’un « mentoring », leur dévouement et gentillesse ne mérite que gratitude.

Last visit Friday, 1 November 04:36:36 UTC

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