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#221 Multilingual 

Multilingual | [English] | Français

Ryzom Forge meeting report – April 12th, 2021

1 - Feedback on the OOC events of the Refugee Days

Tamarea (RT) – 19:32 UTC
The Refugees' Day events have just ended, so we would like to get your feedback on them.
What did you like about these events? What do you think could be improved?

Nine comments:
• The image to be reconstructed could have been a bit larger, but the whole thing was great.
• A good point for the radar not displaying the positions of the small eggs, but this seems to have had an effect on the range of said radar.
Ullukyn confirms: even if they do not appear on the radar, the small eggs are among the entities visible to the player and thus reduce the overall visibility.
• A pity the refugee eggs didn't reward me with any interesting item (only dappers, which are of no use to me), but I liked the whole thing.
• Nothing to say about the events (like the rendor hunt), except that I would have liked them to be more numerous and collective since the pop of eggs everywhere on Atys, that I have seen far too often in the past and it causes bugs and lags.
• Unlike last year, the rendors had no social behavior. I wonder if this is a good thing, since it doesn't compel players to form teams and allows everyone to farm at their own pace (including solo).
• I found the distribution of eggs well thought out (they were not really "everywhere"), but I think it would be better to make them even scarcer, to increase the pleasure of the search.
• As for the rendors, I found their "strength" to be disproportionate for Silan, and to see your level 250 character killed by a level 22 mob was, at the very least, strange. It seems to me that it would have been better to position them in Almati Wood.
Tamarea clarifies: the rendors were positioned on Silan so that new players could enjoy the "diversion" from their apprenticeship that the presence of the beasts (and that of their hunters) would bring. One attendee confirms that he has had at least one positive feedback from a new player.
• Overall, the party offered few activities that were accessible to low-level characters, except for O'Dunny's egg hunt. The latter was a good idea, by the way: the counter provided motivation for the search by setting a goal.
• As for the picture to be reconstructed, I would have rather been able to visit all the tribes of Atys at my own pace than having to wait 30 minutes before knowing the next one to visit: playing more than 15 hours in a row is impossible for me.
A:
Thank you for your comments, which will all be passed on to the creators of these events.

2 - The future launcher/installer Ryztart

Ulukyn (RT) – 20:02 UTC
Fearing that a later addition would be problematic, we have wanted to take the time to add functionality to Ryztart before its release.
To wit: Ryztart now allows you to log in with your account name and password without having to enter them when launching the game and it will automatically retrieve the list of your characters and that of the servers (Atys, Yubo and/or Gingo) your account is granted access.
The objective of this addition being to make the launcher more secure, most of the work was to design a system that avoids having to store account name and password on the computer. Thus, Ryztart now only stores a token, which allows, and allows only, the connection to the game. Ryztart can also create shortcuts on your desktop for your characters that, too, do not contain either the account name or the password. Last, these shortcuts or Ryztart itself can launch the connection of a character without going through the "Character selection" step. (NB: this is already possible for those who know what parameters to provide to the current launcher).

Q: Since some people use more than one (to connect under different accounts), will the profiles be saved?
A:
Yes: Ryztart allows to import them from the current launcher and it manages both profiles (folders 0 1 2 3 ...) and shortcuts.

Q: Will there be a version for Linux?
A:
Yes: the Linux and Windows versions are already used by the first testers. Only the macOs version needs a little more time.

Q: Will the old launcher still work, just in case?
A:
Yes, as well as the ability to launch the client directly. However, as soon as Ryztart is officially released, we will no longer provide user support for the old version.

Q: Will the shortcuts (Windows) allow two characters from the same account to log in simultaneously?
A:
No: multiple characters from the same account will still not be able to log in.

Q: What about Windows 7?
A:
First tests have been conducted, but the latest version of Ryztart is still to be tested under Windows 7... with your help, if you wish. In any case, we will keep you informed.

Q: What are the feedbacks for the tests on macOS 11 ?
A:
As Ryztart for macOS is not yet 100% operational, tests are still to be done there too.

3 - Refugee Days (Easter OOC events)

Tamarea (RT) – 21:38 UTC
The OOC events for the Refugee Days (Easter events) will take place from Friday, March 26th to Monday, April 12th.
Details will, as usual, be posted on the forum beforehand.

4 - Outpost fights refactoring

Ulukyn (RT) – 20:27 UTC
We've strated the work on the outpost battles refactoring project.
As some may have noticed, four outposts have popped in the Nexus, of four different "levels" (100, 150, 200 and 250).
Their names suggest that they are not "like the others" and will not function in the same way at all. In fact, their ways of working will evolve following the avancement of the refactoring project.
At first, their conquest will be the object of GvE battles (a single guild fighting the NPCs defending the outpost), none of them will be owned by a guild (nor will they host any drill). That in order to test the impact of the projected shortening of the battle duration (from two hours to one) in the best conditions.

Q: During this test period, will the battles still include two phases?
A:
No, because these are test outposts. If conquered after one hour of battle, an outpost will be returned immediately to its owners: the defending NPCs (out-of-faction marauders). But, if any battle can be a rewarding challenge, it costs equipment, ammunition, and time for those who fight it. So, the guilds that test will be rewarded for their commitment (to a degree yet to be determined).
We're planning for a guild to launch one attack per week, so hopefully four tests per week (one for each of the outposts) will allow everyone to participate.


Q: Will fighters be tagged and PvP allowed during these test battles?
A:
These are outpost battles, so attackers will be OP tagged, yes. But they are also GvE battles in which, in order to not skew the tests, only the attacking guild's PCs will participate, with no allied or enemy PCs, so no PvP fight will be available.

Q: Will the level of NPC defenders be the same for all four outposts?
A:
No. As with outposts in other regions, the level of the outpost is determined by the quality of the materials it can produce. The "level" 100 outpost in the Nexus will, as elsewhere, be easier to "conquer" than the level 250 outpost, so a guild will be able to judge its progress in the fight exercise by the level of the outpost it manages to conquer or the threshold it manages to make it reach.

Q: Will the level of each outpost be unchanging?
A:
Yes, and once the project is finalized, i.e. once the redesign of the outposts is effective throughout Atys (the tests at the Nexus are indeed just the first ones of a long series), only the nature of the materials produced by any outpost will change between battles, not their quality.

Q: Are there any plans to establish new outposts, for example in the Prime Roots?
A:
No. For now, our priority is the completion of the current project: we don't want to slow it down by spreading our efforts.

Q: Given the "PvP area" status of the Nexus, what will prevent anyone from attacking the guild busy testing an outpost battle?
A:
Outpost PvP prevents guild PvP by construction, plain and simple.

Q: Does this mean you can quietly drill or hunt for an hour in the Nexus as long as your guild is engaged in an outpost test attack?
A:
Basically yes. Relevant comment.

Q (off-topic): When will range weapons be finalized, like 1H weapons were?
A:
Since our goal is to finish as many of the current projects as possible in order to have a constant rhythm and an increasingly efficient team, we had to postpone the launch of some others. Thus, the final development of the shooting weapons is not abandoned, far from it. It is just put on hold.
However, if you wish to participate in the working group that is nonetheless reflecting on the subject, you can contact Tamarea privately.


Q (off-topic): Are there any plans to do anything to boost non-outpost PvP to make it more attractive? If not, wouldn't it be possible to have a meeting to discuss this?
A:
We'd like to be able to address all the topics, issues and difficulties that players may encounter. But we can't answer all the requests right now, it would be counterproductive.

5 - AIS improvement

Ulukyn (RT) – 21:12 UTC
This enigmatic wording actually refers to the additions made to the server to improve the artificial intelligence (AIS) that is managing the actions and abilities of the creatures and NPCs evolving within it.
These additions, I'm sorry to have to tell you, have given ideas to our dear Teanwen which will make you sweat a lot.. For they result notably in the extension to the NPCs involved in punctual events of certain abilities until now specific to outpost NPCs: launchers, bombs, healing, etc. Thus, as she was in the past, Teanwen will again be in charge of designing and driving animations and events where players will have to fight "mini-bosses" able, this time, to use a launcher, to heal themselves, to throw bombs or gas...
These mini-boss events will be announced in advance by in-game broadcast. Note that the AIS modifications have greatly increased the technical possibilities: be prepared, therefore, for many surprises during these little events!

Q: Will these additions improve the NPC patrols (which I find a bit dull) in the various areas?
A:
No. They only impact animations and events. They do not constitute an overhaul of all the NPCs and creatures in the game, but only allow for new possibilities for animators and ARKitects.

The meeting is closed at 21:32 UTC.

Last edited by Nilstilar (4 years ago)

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#222 [fr] 

From Agenda: [Information] Progress of ongoing projects: new launcher, marauder gameplay, OP refactoring, AIS changes.


So Marauder gameplay haven't been discussed at all, right?

#223 [en] 

Right, Sinvaders.
Not an oversight of mine.

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#224 Multilingual 

Multilingual | [English] | Français

Ryzom Forge meeting (April 26th 2021)


Date: monday, April 26th, 19:30 UTC (21:30 CEST)

Meeting places:
  • Atys, on the public forge channel
or
  • Ryzom Chat, channel #pub-forge-xx (exhttps://chat.ryzom.com/channel/pub-forge-en


Duration: 1.5 hour

Participants: all Ryzom players wishing to join.

Nature: informative, questions & answers and feedback meeting.

Topic
: Added, in test and ready to be tested projects.
Agenda
    [Presentation] Ryzom's marketing plan: increase player loyalty
    [Presentation] Silan Refactoring project

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Tamarea
Ryzom Team Manager
(FR / EN / ES)

tamarea@ryzom.com

#225 [fr] 

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Tamarea
Ryzom Team Manager
(FR / EN / ES)

tamarea@ryzom.com

#226 [fr] 

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Tamarea
Ryzom Team Manager
(FR / EN / ES)

tamarea@ryzom.com

#227 Multilingual 

Multilingual | English | [Français]

Compte-Rendu de la réunion de Ryzom Forge – 26 Avril 2021

1 - Fidéliser les joueurs : un jeu plus attractif

Tamarea (RT) – 19:39 UTC
Un plan marketing 2021 a été élaboré par l'Équipe Ryzom, qui poursuit trois objectifs :
1. Fidéliser davantage les joueurs
2. Avoir plus de comptes abonnés
3. Attirer de nouveaux joueurs
Aujourd'hui seront détaillées les actions engagées par l'équipe pour la réalisation du premier objectif, et vos suggestions pour les enrichir seront les bienvenues.

Nous perdons trop de joueurs, y compris de haut niveau, par manque de nouveau contenu donnant une motivation à se connecter, parce que les ajouts promis de longue date sont toujours attendus, et parce que le rythme de la maintenance demeure lent.
C’est pourquoi nous avons décidé de nous concentrer sur les projets déjà en cours et sur la maintenance, et plus précisément :
• Terminer les projets en cours et ceux annoncés de longue date : nouveau lanceur/installeur, refonte des Rois, refonte des batailles d'avant-poste, gameplay des Maraudeurs, équilibrage des armes de tir (voir les information données lors des précédentes réunions de Ryzom Forge).
• Ajouter régulièrement de nouveaux events à la Storyline, chacun débouchant sur un nouveau contenu gameplay permanent.
• Ne pas négliger la maintenance : correction des bogues, ajout de nouvelles récompenses, etc.
Le patch en préparation commencera à mettre en jeu une partie de ce contenu, avec l'activation des avant-postes de test du Nexus et l'ajout progressif des nouveaux Rois.
• Encourager le roleplay qui, s’il demeure bien sûr facultatif, est l'une des raisons d’être du MMORPG Ryzom. Ainsi, pour donner envie aux rôlistes de rester, l'équipe travaille sur deux axes :
   • École d'initiation au jeu de rôle (en projet)
   • Events réguliers (hebdomadaires), impactant ou non l’Histoire d'Atys

Avez-vous des questions ou des remarques concernant ces actions ?

Quatre remarques :
• Je confirme ma disponibilité pour continuer les tests nécessaires au rééquilibrage des armes de tir (commencés autrefois avec Tykus) et pour participer à ceux des batailles d'avant-poste.
• Si nous souhaitons les fidéliser, nous devons d'abord, me semble-t-il, trouver les raisons qui conduisent actuellement les nouveaux joueurs à quitter le jeu. Je pense surtout aux « crashs » : les nouveaux joueurs (surtout la génération actuelle) ayant une abondance de jeux à leur disposition, ils n'ont aucun problème à abandonner un jeu après un énième crash.
• S'agissant du jeu de rôle, je trouve dommage que les events hebdomadaires soient pratiquement tous des one-shots, des épisodes sans lendemain, qu'ils ne construisent pas, peu à peu, une Histoire. Je remercie cependant l'équipe de la fréquence et de la qualité des events proposés aux roleplayers occasionnels (dont je suis).
• Quant à moi je pense que les events hebdomadaires construisent bien une Histoire, mais que celle-ci est difficile à suivre du fait de son éparpillement, via les events, en plusieurs épisodes différents en différents lieux. Du coup, il est malaisé pour beaucoup d'Atysiens d'assembler ces épisodes en Histoire (difficile, mais pas impossible pour peu qu'on explore le Wiki et les messages postés au forum). Peut-être grouper les évènements par mois et nation (i.e. un mois d'épisodes de l'Histoire concernant les Trykers, puis un mois d'épisodes de l'Histoire concernant les Zoraï, etc.) améliorerait-il les choses… sauf que ce serait ressenti comme injuste par les nations non concernées du mois. *grimace*
Bref : si, pour moi, une Histoire cohérente est en marche, je n'ai malheureusement aucune idée de ce qui aiderait à la mieux faire connaître de tous.


Merci pour vos retours, qui seront bien sûr transmis à l'Event team.

2 - Fidéliser les joueurs : un tutoriel amélioré

Ulukyn (RT) – 20:07 UTC
Pour fidéliser davantage les joueurs, en plus d'offrir un contenu de jeu plus attractif, nous allons travailler à mieux guider les nouveaux joueurs. Nous perdons en effet beaucoup d'entre eux peu après leur arrivée sur l'île tutorielle de Silan. Après avoir enquêté sur les causes de cet état de fait, nous nous sommes entendus sur une remédiation possible. C’est ainsi qu’est né le projet de refonte de Silan, laquelle ne se traduira pas par un grosse modification mais par divers ajustements et améliorations seulement.
L'objectif poursuivi par cette refonte est double :
• d'une part, donner l'envie aux nouveaux joueurs d'aller plus loin (actuellement fort peu d'entre eux franchissent le pas – i.e. passent sur le continent) ;
• d'autre part essayer de rendre l'expérience globale du jeu plus homogène (actuellement, comme l'a souligné Dorothée – qu'elle en soit remerciée ici – lors de la réunion de la RT préparant la présente, il existe de trop grandes différences entre le jeu sur Silan et celui sur le continent).
Les améliorations et ajustements prévus concernent :
• La carte de l'île de Silan. Pour la rendre plus utile aux débutants elle :
   • sera présentée aux joueurs non plus seule, mais avec la carte générale d'Atys ;
   • permettra au joueur le zoom sur le Campement Ranger (comme il est possible sur les cités du continent) ;
   • affichera des icônes indiquant la position des PNJ utiles au joueur (au stade où il en est de sa progression).
• Les textes décrivant les missions actuellement peu clairs, tels ceux présentant une suggestion de formation d'équipe comme une nécessité à des joueurs qui ne peuvent (ou ne savent pas comment) former une équipe.
• Les dégâts causés par les attaques des créatures proches du Campement Ranger. Ils seront diminués car ils sont actuellement la cause de morts en trop grand nombre. Or, la mort trop fréquente de son personnage laisse à penser au joueur, soit que le jeu n'est pas fait pour lui, soit qu'il en a mal compris les règles, augmentant par là le risque de le voir abandonner Ryzom sans tarder.

Trois remarques :
• S'agissant de la réduction des dégâts, la démarche a déjà été entamée je dirais, vu la rapidité avec laquelle la DP est annulée sur Silan. Et si le joueur craint la mort de ses personnages, qu'il aille jouer à Candy Crush ! *sourire*
• Je trouve que c'est par là un peu trop mâcher le travail aux débutants. Bien souvent certains ne comprennent même pas que Silan est un tutoriel.
• La plupart des nouveaux joueurs semble ne pas même lire les textes dits par les (ou affichés près des) entraîneurs de Silan (Guilan Guiter, Nomis Merclao, etc.). Il faudrait, je pense leur proposer d'autres moyens d'apprentissage.

3 - Fidéliser les joueurs : des apprentissages plus conviviaux

Ulukyn (RT) – 20:14 UTC
En effet, peu de joueurs prennent le temps de bien tout lire (c'est naturel : l'excitation de la découverte d'un nouveau jeu pousse à l'action immédiate, non à la réflexion sur ses mécanismes).
Je vais donc vous présenter ce que nous avons prévu pour pallier aux inconvénients de cette précipitation compréhensible.
Nous ne réécrirons pas les textes des missions : ce serait trop long. Mais j'ai pu constater, en accompagnant des joueurs ne connaissant pas Ryzom dans leur première session, que faire afficher sur leur écran une capture adaptée était bien souvent plus efficace que de leur faire un long discours pour leur expliquer tel ou tel mécanisme du gameplay.
C'est pourquoi nous allons introduire le concept d'écoles (ou académies) dont la fonction sera de fournir en jeu un "Savoir Académique" consultable à tout moment par tous les joueurs et délivré sous forme de leçons pratiques qui les guideront, de manière visuelle et ludique, tant dans l'accomplissement des missions que dans leur apprentissage proprement dit. Chaque école regroupera plusieurs informations concernant un thème gameplay (par exemple la maîtrise de la magie ou celle de la bijouterie) ou un thème plus général (comme l'interface du jeu, voire le jeu de rôle comme évoqué plus haut).
Vous trouverez ci-dessous un prototype, pour l'école de « Maîtrise du combat rapproché », d'une fenêtre présentant en jeu les informations mises à disposition par une école.



Elle présente un enseignement comprenant quatre sections (ou leçons), activables (si votre progression le permet) ou non (case grisée) pour que vous ne vous perdiez pas dans une longue liste. Lorsque vous activerez une leçon, une liste d'exercices à effectuer (présentés sous forme de fiches) vous sera proposée. Une fois que vous aurez terminé tous les exercices de cette liste, une récompense vous sera offerte.
Vous trouverez ci-après un prototype, pour « Les mouvements élémentaires », d'une fiche décrivant un tel exercice.



Elle se compose quatre parties affichant respectivement :
• Un titre accompagné d'une courte explication en sous-titre
• Un objectif illustré et facultatif (bouton à cliquer pour acceptation)
• Une petite récompense facultative (bouton à cliquer pour récupération un fois l'objectif atteint)
• Un ensemble d'images permettant de comprendre aisément comment atteindre l'objectif.
Pourquoi, direz-vous, proposer un objectif et une récompense et non seulement l'explication et les illustrations ? Tout simplement car proposer une action contre récompense est plus motivant et ludique, bien plus qu'un long texte d'explication.

Avez-vous des questions ?

Q : Est-il envisagé de retoucher aussi la phase de création de personnage ?
R :
Non. Pas dans le cadre de la refonte de Silan, en tout cas.

Q : La refonte de Silan inclut-elle l'information des nouveaux joueurs sur l'existence des téléports sur l'île (beaucoup d'entre eux l'ignorent) ?
R :
Oui. L'objectif est que les joueurs débutants aient sur Silan un véritable avant-goût de ce qui les attend sur le continent.

Q : Le tutoriel amélioré utilisera t'il les attributions des touches recensées dans le fichier keys_personnage.xml du joueur ?
R :
Oui. Et, d'ailleurs, le joueur pourra, grâce aux fiches d'exercice proposées par l'école, modifier ces attributions en jeu sans avoir à rechercher la fenêtre adéquate dans l'interface (très dense).

Q : Comme il est difficile d'accumuler les Dappers sur Silan, le coût de la téléportation y sera-t-il modifié ?
R :
Non. Mais les joueurs pourront obtenir plus de Dappers grâce aux exercices proposés par les écoles (elle en offriront souvent en récompense).

Q : Les Silanais pourront-ils acheter des montures ?
R :
Oui. La refonte inclut la mise en place d'une étable sur l'île.

Q : Pour moi, un tutoriel ne devrait pas comporter des lieux cachés ou secrets. Aussi, le tunnel menant à la Jungle aux Kitins sera-t-il plus aisément repérable ou de meilleures indications sur son emplacement dans le Lac étincelant seront-elles fournies ?
R :
C'est volontairement que l'accès à la Jungle aux Kitins a été conçu comme une (petite) énigme, aussi n'avons nous rien prévu de tel, non. Mais nous réfléchirons à rendre plus explicite la mission envoyant affronter les kitins sur leur territoire.

Q : Pourra-t-on emmener sur le continent un mektoub acquis sur Silan ?
R :
Oui, vu qu'obliger les joueurs à abandonner leur équipement serait aussi contre-productif pour nous (étant donné l'objectif poursuivi par la refonte) que catastrophique pour eux.

Q : Les séides des Kamis comme ceux de la Karavan présents sur Silan incitent actuellement à la prudence en semblant indiquer que le retour sur l'île sera difficile, voire impossible. Leurs discours seront-ils plus encourageants (du genre « Je peux vous envoyer là-bas. C'est un lieu dangereux, mais vous pouvez revenir ici quand vous voulez. ») après la refonte ?
R :
Oui. C'est une excellente idée et nous la mettrons en œuvre !

Q : Parce qu'une monture est aussi (voire surtout) un espace de stockage et que ce qu'elle stocke n'est pas toujours facilement récupérable après sa mort, on voit peu de personnages se déplacer montés, sur Atys. Une option de récupération à distance du chargement de la monture ne pourrait-elle être proposée ?
R :
Nous travaillons dans ce sens : le test d'une nouvelle fonctionnalité permettant la récupération de tout animal familier mort contre Elyps est en cours. Offrir une telle option sur Silan constituerait en effet pour les joueurs débutants une bonne introduction aux Elyps, pour peu que le coût de leur acquisition soit adapté.

Q (hors sujet) : S'agissant des Elyps, même si les avantages qu'ils procurent sont de valeur (matières premières génériques, objets de haute qualité, opérations sur les familiers, etc.) je les trouve fort chichement distribués lors des invasions kitines : tuer un kitin est récompensé d'une Elyps seulement. Est-il prévu d'améliorer ce ratio ou de proposer plus fréquemment que ces temps-ci des invasions kitines ?
R :
Non. Mais nous prenons bonne note de votre sentiment.

4 - Fidéliser les joueurs : remarques et suggestions

(21:03 UTC)

• Que Silan offre aux joueurs débutants, pour éviter leur fuite précoce, plus d'opportunités et un bon aperçu de ce qui les attend sur le continent, soit. Mais je pense qu'il faudrait éviter de trop les enrichir sur l'île : ça pourrait les inciter à y demeurer, à ne jamais franchir le pas.
Ulukyn précise à ce propos que rien de ce qu'offrira Silan refondu ne sera gratuit et un joueur ne pourra pas accumuler en y restant les millions de Dappers et les milliers d'Elyps qu'on peut parvenir à collecter sur le continent.
• Je pense aussi que la fixation pour les objets nouveaux sur Silan d'un coût d'acquisition moins élevé que sur le continent est préférable à la fixation d'un montant plus élevé aux récompenses en Dappers que procure l'accomplissement des missions actuelles.
Sur quoi Ulukyn sollicite sur le sujet l'opinion d'un joueur débutant assistant à la réunion.
• (du dit joueur) S'agissant des Dappers, je n'augmenterais en aucun cas les montants distribués. En ce qui concerne les points de compétence, en revanche, peut-être faudrait-il en réduire le besoin ou augmenter la qualité des objets qu'ils procurent. Vu qu'il n'est pas facile, sur Silan, de monter toutes les compétences.
Réagissant à ce dernier point, Ulukyn indique que la difficulté que revêt sur Silan le choix des compétences à travailler ainsi que le fait que tout ne peut y être acquis ont été évoqués au sein de l'équipe et que proposition a été faite de les classer (grâce à des groupes d'étoiles) en fonction de leur plus ou moins grande utilité… sur quoi un participant propose d'en supprimer carrément le début d'acquisition sur Silan.
• Certains joueurs s'étonnent déjà qu'on ne dispose pas, sur Silan, des compétences de tir. Je pense donc que les supprimer toutes est à éviter. Quant au classement des compétences par étoiles, il risque de « formater » le jeu. Or j'apprécie Ryzom justement parce qu'il ne m'oblige pas à pousser telle compétence mais me laisse, après avoir lu tous les textes les concernant, le libre choix de celle(s) que mon personnage travaillera.
Ulukyn indique que, l'équipe souhaitant améliorer la branche et la présenter au nouveaux joueurs, une école de tir sera proposée sur Silan. Car, ajoute-t-il, il n'est en effet de choix véritablement libre qu'informé et informer sur des compétences n'est pas contraindre à les embrasser, comme les donner le serait (ainsi procèdent certains MMO). Sur quoi l'intervenant précédent précise que ce n'est pas l'information sur les compétences qui lui fait craindre un formatage des joueurs, mais leur classement.
• Pour moi, je pense que le tutoriel devrait indiquer clairement que monter en compétences sur la mêlée est le meilleur moyen d'obtenir des points de vie supplémentaires et aussi qu'il gagnerait à pointer vers l'app Bunny Tools.
Ulukyn précise que, si Bunny Tools est en effet une bonne application, elle est et demeurera externe. Il ajoute que chaque école enseignera une voie (une branche) en indiquant précisément les compétences nécessaires et utiles à acquérir pour suivre la voie en question et, autant que possible, les possibilités offertes par les différents assemblages de ces dernières. L'objectif demeure donc de donner aux joueurs toutes les informations lui permettant un choix éclairé.
• Silan est un tutoriel à mon sens assez complet tel qu'il est actuellement. Aussi, si ajouter des icônes pour mieux signaler tel ou tel point me semble utile, le reste de la refonte n'est pas, je pense, une bonne idée. Car tout donner aux nouveaux joueurs dès Silan les privera de la surprise que procure la découverte d'Atys. Simplifier Silan, pourquoi pas ? Mais de là à en faire une Atys miniature… autant, alors, le supprimer et faire naître les nouveaux directement sur Atys.
Ulukyn rappelle qu'il n'est pas question de refondre Silan en un mini-Atys mais seulement de faire en sorte que Silan donne aux nouveaux joueurs les moyens d'être autonome, de savoir quoi et comment chercher sur Atys dès qu'il y mettront le pied. Car actuellement, arriver sur le continent est bien une surprise, oui : celle de découvrir quasiment un autre jeu. La refonte ne consiste donc pas à refaire Atys sur Silan mais à donner sur Silan des aperçus d'Atys alléchants.
• Il reste que le plaisir de la découverte, fut-ce d'un « quasi-nouveau » jeu, est ce qui fait de Ryzom un jeu unique. Et quant à l'autonomie sur le continent, elle peut-être assez rapidement obtenue par les nouveaux joueurs grâce à l'aide des anciens, comme cela se pratique actuellement.
(Ulukyn continue) Aujourd'hui, les nouveaux joueurs arrivant sur Atys ne savent rien de ce qui les y attend. Pour les inciter à rejoindre le continent, nous pensons qu'il faut leur faire savoir (sans, bien sûr, entrer dans les détails) qu'ils y trouveront bien d'autres moyens et activités (les Elyps, les métiers, le roleplay, les évènements dynamiques, etc.) que les seuls Dappers, missions et acquisitions de compétences qui leur sont présentés pour lors sur Silan.
• Je pense en effet qu'on trouve trop d'informations une fois sur le continent et pas assez sur Silan, sauf celles concernant les classes (les branches), pour lesquelles le rapport est inverse.
• Intégrer la carte de Silan à celle d'Atys est une excellente idée : elle aiguisera la curiosité des nouveaux joueurs pour le continent et leur montrera que beaucoup leur reste encore à explorer.
• Beaucoup de joueurs de ma connaissance ont en effet quitté Ryzom pensant que le terrain de jeu se bornait à Silan. Pour la même raison, certains ont joué à Ryzom seulement deux mois… le temps d'épuiser les plaisirs de Silan.
Ulukyn confirme en indiquant qu'une des premières questions qu'on lui pose lorsqu'il fait tester le jeu est : « Est-ce là la carte de la zone de jeu complète ? ».
• Lorsque sur Silan, j'ai eu en fait le sentiment de m'y trouver seul, de jouer sur une carte vide de joueurs. Et ça ne m'a pas donné l'envie de continuer. C'est pourquoi inciter plus fréquemment les joueurs expérimentés à revenir sur l'île serait une bonne chose, je pense.
Ulukyn souligne que les leçons proposées par les écoles de Silan n'intéresseront probablement pas que les seuls nouveaux joueurs mais aussi, notamment, les joueurs guère plus expérimentés car n'ayant rejoint le continent que récemment. Ces derniers seront alors naturellement conduits à revenir sur Silan pour compléter la formation lacunaire qu'ils ont reçu du tutoriel actuel.
• Pour lutter contre ce sentiment de solitude du débutant, ne serait-il pas, aussi, judicieux de remplacer la commande /who par un bouton de l'interface, d'usage plus aisé pour tous ?
Sur quoi Ulukyn conseille à l'intervenant de poster sa suggestion au forum. Car ce dernier est régulièrement consulté par des contributeurs développeurs, donc capables de proposer à l'équipe un patch la mettant en œuvre.
• Pourquoi ne pas faire, au moment où les joueurs s'adressent à Chiang le Fort pour émigrer vers le continent, une enquête de satisfaction qui permettrai de recueillir leurs ressenti et avis sur Silan ?
Ulukyn indique qu'une telle enquête a déjà été menée par ses soins auprès de joueurs ayant, à sa demande, testé le jeu en sa compagnie durant trois jours. Il ajoute qu'elle a servi, comme les retours plus ponctuels reçus de nouveaux joueurs et une vidéo très critique à l'endroit de Ryzom (que, si vous ne la connaissez déjà, vous pourrez trouver ici) à l'élaboration du projet d'amélioration du tutoriel aujourd'hui présenté.
• Est-ce que, à ce même moment, les joueurs recevront le conseil de s'adresser à l'Hôte d'accueil de la ville qu'il auront choisi comme destination de leur voyage vers le continent ?
Ulukyn répond par l'affirmative, car l'équipe pense que tout ce qui peut aider les nouveaux joueurs à se repérer est une bonne chose, quelqu'en soit la forme (texte, leçon d'école ou indication visuelle) et que s'ils ne savent pas ce qu'ils peuvent (ou ne peuvent pas) y faire ils seront peu susceptibles d'apprécier le jeu.
• Ayant personnellement bénéficié à mon arrivée des services gracieux d'un professeur de qualité (un joueur expérimenté) je confirme que les règles garantissant un bon apprentissage des règles du jeu (et de leur respect) par les joueurs doivent être elles-mêmes apprises.
• Quelques éléments de l'interface me semblent mériter d'être corrigés ou rendus adaptables. Par exemple la taille du curseur en 4K : comme, pour moi qui joue sur un écran 55'' j'ai déjà du mal à le discerner, je me demande bien comment font les autres.
Ulukyn s'engage à faire remonter la suggestion.
• Comme nous n'avons pas tous les facilités de certains pour l'apprentissage des langues étrangères, je pense qu'une traduction automatique des conversations privées tenues en jeu (/tell) serait également très utile.
Ulukyn répond que, malheureusement, il n'est pas possible, pour le moment, d'ajouter une telle option.

La réunion est close à 22:09 UTC

Edited 4 times | Last edited by Nilstilar (4 years ago) | Reason: FR typos

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#228 [fr] 

Ca me fait penser au Grand Bleu, quand Enzo fait repeindre sa vieille Topolina avec 3 couches de peintures...ça donne un peu de fraîcheur mais ça change pas ce qu'il y a sous la peinture...
En même temps (:)) c'est rassurant de savoir qu'un joueur comme moi peut partir pendant plus d'un an et retrouver le jeu (pratiquement) tel qu'il l'a laissé...
* La porte s'ouvre brusquement, le docteur interpelle l'infirmière,
- je vous avais dit de ne pas laisser Mazenmar aussi longtemps devant l'écran !
Le doc s'approche de Mazenmar,
- ben alors Mazenmar, ça va plus ? Et 'Esprit d'Atys, et la Lore...et toutes ces merveilleuse attractions un peu partout ?
Mazenmar tourne de grands yeux vides vers le doc
- c'est un supplice chinois doc, je subis cruellement les mêmes irritations depuis 6 ans, je veux partir, très loin, au fond de la kitinière et au-delà si c'est possible...
Le doc le regarde, désespéré devant sa détresse, que faire pour rendre l'espoir au vieux matis ? Il sait au fond de lui que Mazenmar s'enfonce de plus en plus dans ses vieux rêves...
- Allez Mazenmar, un cachet de Concensus 2000, ça va bien se passer !
Mazenmar avale le cachet, repars dans ses songes, revoie le Désert profond et les tribus de Fremens (* wink wink *)...du sable glisse dans ses mains...ses yeux se voilent...il n'est plus là.*

Last edited by Vynir (4 years ago)

#229 [en] 

Just my two dappers...

Damages from creature attacks near the Ranger Camp. They will be reduced as it currently causes too many deaths. Character dying too frequently suggests to players that the game is not for them, or that they have misunderstood the rules, increasing the risk that they will abandon Ryzom without delay.

I think that the same is also needed on the road leading West from Yrkanis for much the same reason. While Fairhaven and Pyr are pretty safe, and Zora is okay so long as you leave by the South gate, I lost count of how many fresh-from-Silan Homins I've seen meet an untimely end along that road. Vigourous Gingos/Ragus are fine, and Growling aren't too bad for anyone that completed Silan, but multiple Scowling less than 400m from the gates along the road is a bit much. Level 46 mobs once you get past the Green Seeds camp on your way to Psykopla Knoll is fine, but that close to the city... I've seen more than one player quit as a result of that "challenge", so it might be worth changing.
Silan is in my opinion a pretty complete tutorial as it is now. So, if adding icons to better indicate this or that point seems useful to me, the rest of the refactoring is not, I think, a good idea. Because giving everything to new players as soon as Silan will deprive them of the surprise of discovering Atys. Simplify Silan, why not? But from there to make it a mini-Atys… we might as well remove it and make new players be born directly on Atys.
[i]Ulukyn recalls that it is not a question of turning Silan into a mini-Atys, but only of making sure that Silan gives new players the means to be autonomous, to know what and how to look for on Atys as soon as they set foot there. Because currently, arriving on the mainland is a surprise, yes: to discover almost another game. So the refactoring is not about remaking Atys on Silan, but about providing tantalizing glimpses of Atys on Silan.
[/i]
Experience guides opinion, and my experience is different. I did not learn of enchants at all from Silan, nor was there really any discussion of TPs, and Ranged Weapons were a mystery to me aside from seeing a few skills on the skill tree. I learned a lot of what I feel to be very basic information from older players long after doing the missions in Silan. And unlike a lot of newer players, I am an old-school TRPG player who knows and appreciated the value of reading what NPCs say. In fact, I was here a fair while before I realized Silan was merely a tutorial. While some information may technically be there, the presentation needs revamping so that new players can learn without a tutor. It's a lot better than it used to be, but is still a work-in-progress. 

I see Silan as a way to learn the basics and pique the curiousity. While I agree that it should not be "mini-Atys", I also feel that new players that don't get mentored and are merely left in the hands of the NPCs won't even get enough info to get curious. And that is a shame. That's not to say that we should remove all of the mystery (far from it), but the current state of Silan errs on the side of too much mystery. 

On a semi-related note, I think that the "sliding scale" XP rewards system also throws people. Another thing I've seen a lot over the years is questions like, "Why are these Sucking Yubos only giving me 300 XP when I used to get over 1000?". So maybe making it a little more obvious that character growth (XP) is related to relative challenge instead of merely body count would be helpful. 

• Many players I know have actually left Ryzom thinking that the playing field was limited to Silan. For the same reason, some have played Ryzom for only two months… time to exhaust the pleasures of Silan.
This Ulukyn confirms by saying that one of the first questions he is asked when he has the game tested is: "Is this the map of the entire game area?".

That seems to be a common misconception. I saw a "How big is the map" video on Youtube that had an episode about Ryzom, and they were also surprised to learn about Mainland.

Last edited by Gidget (4 years ago)

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Do not assume that you speak for all just because you are the loudest voice; there are many who disagree that simply have no desire to waste words on you.

#230 Multilingual 

Multilingual | [English] | Français

Ryzom Forge meeting (June 14th 2021)


Date: monday, June 14th, 19:30 UTC (21:30 CEST)

Meeting places:
  • Atys, on the public forge channel
or
  • Ryzom Chat, channel #pub-forge-xx (exhttps://chat.ryzom.com/channel/pub-forge-en


Duration: 1.5 hour

Participants: all Ryzom players wishing to join.

Nature: informative, questions & answers and feedback meeting.
Topic: Added, in test and ready to be tested projects.
Agenda
  • [Feedback] Last patch
  • [Information] CoC update project

#231 Multilingual 

Multilingual | [English] | Français

Ryzom Forge meeting report – June 14, 2021

1 - Feedback about the last patch

Ulukyn (RT) – 19:39 UTC
Below are the links to the latest patch applied:
    • Patch 868 of April 17, 2021
    • Patch 873 of April 20, 2021 (fix of patch 868)
Pour information, le contenu de ce patch est désormais complétement actif sur Atys.
Thus, we have added, among others :
   – lessons and rewards for the entire Storyline;
   – allegories that produce effects and Storyline missions to improve those effects;
   – activation of Nexus Minor outposts.
Please note that the form of the lessons (illustrated guides to the missions) from the Storyline will be used for the projects:
   – Silan refactoring (tutorial lessons)
   – New Encyclopedia (guide to the Rites lessons)

Are there any questions, remarks or feedback?

Silan refactoring

  • If I create a new character, will it be able to benefit from the new Silan, i.e. the new learning system (see Report of April 26, 2021 RF meeting) ?
    Yes, and even the current characters of curious players will also be able to go to Silan for the new training.
  • When will this new learning be available in game?
    The patch that will implement it is still in development, but its interface, as said, will be similar to the lessons currently offered in the Storyline.
  • I think it's important to promote team play, that's the beauty of Ryzom! So, are there any plans to add missions on Silan that will encourage beginners to play together?
    It is not planned to add missions to Silan that are similar to the ones that are already available. But the future lessons in Silan will explain in more detail the advantages, possibilities and controls of playing in teams, guilds, factions, etc. So there will be lessons with simple objectives, for example to group or join a guild.

Rumors and Storyline

  • I had a little trouble understanding the new rumor system. The most confusing for me was to be led to an NPC holding the "What's up?" rumor, get to him/her, right-click, have "What's up?" in the bubble, click on it... and see displayed in the chatbox the explanation of what a hunter (for example) is doing. It took me a little while to figure out that I had to "Ask politely" and then click on the second "What's up?" that then appears.
    Ulukyn answers that the bug is known, that it will be fixed in the next patch, and that until then, NPCs offering a "Who am I?" will no longer be chosen to hold a "What's up?"
  • Collecting rumors by simply following a given path is of little interest to me. So, will the next rumors put into play be easily found by indicating the position of the NPCs holding them or will this indication only be given for old rumors, not found in their time by the player?
    The new rumors will be either in the "What's new? (for most of them) or in the Storyline (for those, regarding the same theme, whose gathering is a mission prescribed by this or that episode. In both cases, the position of the NPC to be asked will be given, but in the second case, the waiting time between two successive rumors will be longer than in the first case.
  • Regarding the Storyline missions, couldn't their in-game description more emphasize that the mission directs you to an NPC who will SURELY give you new information, but that you can complete the mission by asking other NPCs, if you know (or think you know) which ones?
    Yes, this is relevant! But keep in mind that missions from completed Storyline episodes are (and will remain) available to players who were unable (or unwilling) to experience those episodes "live": not offering them a quick option could put them off. So, to answer the question, we could, for example:
    – for the current episode: give the position of the character carrying the next rumor only after 20 hours have passed, thus favoring the "classic" search;
    – for past episodes: give the position of the character holding the next rumor as soon as 20 minutes have passed.

Outposts refactoring

  • Can two guilds that don't have enough people in each of them join together into one for the time of an outpost test battle in Nexus?
    Yes... For now, because it will not be possible later on, since these test battles are actually part of the development of the future outpost system.
  • I find the new features tested on the Nexus outposts very refreshing, but is reducing the time of outpost battles still the objective of the refactoring?
    Yes. The only thing that remains to be determined is the strength of the defending NPCs, as the number of rounds will be reduced as a result.
  • In the last few months on Atys, we have seen several battles that go well beyond 10 rounds. Hence my question: by reducing the time of outpost battles, don't we risk impoverishing the strategies?
    This debate has already taken place. Out of respect for the group that discussed and argued at length and finally reached an agreement, we will not go back on the decisions made. But there are still many points to be refined and your opinions, feedbacks and suggestions are still very welcome.

Allegories with effects

  • Regarding the effects of allegories, is the resurrection mentioned the "natural" one (at the chosen spawn point, once the coma is over) or the provoked one (via the spell cast by a benevolent player)?
    It is the natural one exclusively.
  • I think I already benefited from an allegory effect without my character's stats being all restored to the advertised level. Can this be verified?
    Yes, it will be done as soon as possible, on the Gingo test server.

Miscellaneous

  • Are the new Bosses now active as well?
    They are only active in the Nexus at the moment, and will be active in the Prime Roots after the next patch, and then everywhere on Atys.
  • Prior to the last patch, my alt was rewarded for completing the Storyline prologue, but is now missing three 2607 rumors. Will this be fixed?
    This bug may be specific to you... The best thing for you to do, I think, is to submit a ticket to Asssitance describing it.
  • Will the next patch include the translation file allowing, when acquiring a new skill, to display an intelligible message in the SYS. INFO channel?
    Yes, this will probably be effective at the next server restart (so even before the next patch).

2 - CoC update project

Tamarea (RT) – 20:28 UTC
Regarding multiboxing as well as sanctions, we would like to update the Code of Conduct in the near future. So I'm going to tell you what we're planning to change.
As a reminder, the current Code of Conduct can be found here.

1 - Multiboxing and PvP

We currently have a problem of inaccuracy and even contradiction within the Code of Conduct (CoC):
  • In PvP zone, players not wanting to be attacked are asked to leave the zone. ==> Attacking a player in Nexus with 4 simultaneous accounts is therefore allowed.
  • Multiboxing is limited to 2 simultaneous accounts in Storyline events. ==> Attacking a player doing a Storyline mission in Nexus with more than 2 simultaneous accounts is therefore forbidden.
This, in addition to not taking into account the case of Super Nodes, also causes tricky tickets to be solved in Nexus.
So, to clarify the Code of Conduct, we will extend the 2 simultaneous accounts limit to all PvP, so to PvP on outposts, in PvP region (Super Nodes and Nexus included), and everywhere on Atys.

2 - Multiboxing during off-peak hours

The limitation of multiboxing in the CoC has had a positive impact on gaming during European game hours, but also a strong negative impact on the number of players during extra-european game hours (peak hours of play in countries like the USA, but during which the number of players connected to Ryzom is very low).
This last point poses an intractable problem for Ryzom in terms of marketing, which has financial repercussions.
In concrete terms, while the limitation causes no problem of play during European hours, the low number of players and the numerous time zones make it impossible, during off-peak hours, for you to access the high level game (Bosses, Marauder Bosses) unless you use more than 2 simultaneous accounts.
This makes us enter the vicious circle: Lack of players during off-peak hours ==> Not enough people to access the high level game ==> Unsubscription and leaving of the game ==> No one to welcome the new ones ==> Departure of the new ones ==> Lack of players during off-peak hours.
So, to give off-peak hours players access to high-level play again and to give us a chance to repopulate the server during these hours, we will be testing, during 1 month, the tolerance of 4 simultaneous accounts for everything but PvP during off-peak hours, from 22:00 UTC (0:00 CEST) to 05:00 UTC (07:00 CEST), the time when this tolerance is needed to be able to play at high level. If the community reception and impact on the number of connections/subscriptions on off-peak hours of this provision is positive, it will be added to the CoC after the test month, which will run from June 15th to July 15th.

3 - Addition of a penalty scale

Currently, the CoC does not provide for any intermediate sanction between 1 month suspension and lifetime ban: we will remedy this by adding a one-year suspension sanction (more details to come later).

I'll let you react on the three points: first on the first one (multiboxing and PvP), then we'll go on with the other two.
  • Will the previous bans for using 4 accounts at the same time be lifted?
    Yes, but only between 22:00 UTC (0:00 CEST) and 05:00 UTC (07:00 CEST) and for 1 month, the time to test. We will then see if we integrate this point in the Code of Conduct.
  • As the off-peak period ends in the early afternoon for players in Australia and New Zealand, and that some European players might want to use their alts as well, I was wondering : if the test goes well and the community largely wants it, would you consider in the future the possibility of extending this increased tolerance to more time zones?
    We chose these hours to test because they are off-peak hours in terms of connections. If the test is positive, we may adjust the time slot by one hour if needed. The goal is to allow players connected at off-peak times to also enjoy the high level game. This is not related to nationalities, so any player who is connected during these hours will benefit from the lifting of the limitation.
  • "Two simultaneous accounts limit to all PvP, so to PvP on outposts, in PvP region (Super Nodes and Nexus included), and everywhere on Atys.'' So this is the new rule except between 0:00 and 7:00 CEST, yes? The introduction sentence of point 1 gives another impression. Please confirm.
    Yes, the 2 account limit is extended to all PvP 24 hours a day. The tolerance of 4 accounts (except for PvP) will be tested for 1 month during off-peak hours, so for the moment from 22:00 UTC (0:00 CEST) to 05:00 UTC (07:00 CEST). If the test is successful, we will include this off-peak tolerance in the Code of Conduct.
  • I would like a clarification the count of simultaneous accounts. Both me and my wife have 2 accounts each (she typically only plays 1 at a time). My 2 and her 2 are under different names but logged as same IP address. Just want to make sure this is not a problem.
    In such a case (several accounts that can be used by different members of the same family), you should contact Support to inform them. Because it is necessary that when you are both in game with more than one account, it is clear to everyone that it is not the same person who controls all the accounts.
  • Is multiboxing, though prohibited on Storyline events, allowed on other events? Like OOC ones?
    No, it is not allowed on events.
  • During the off-peak hours, will digging in a PvP zone with 4 accounts be allowed as long as the holder of those 4 accounts does NOT initiate PvP?
    The idea behind this off-peak hours tolerance is to allow players to resume activities that have become impossible due to the low number of players connected during those hours. Yet, drilling is definitely possible with only one account, or, if you use a careplanner, only two accounts. So using 4 accounts for drilling is not necessary.
  • So if you are using 4 accounts in a PvP area and you get attacked, you are not allowed to retaliate, right? Because that would be against the CoC.
    That's true. But, at least the CoC allows you to fight back with two accounts.
  • Will people who have been banned for life when one-year sanction did not exist be allowed to get a reconsideration for their situation?
    Yes, we will be able to review cases upon request. However, of course, only those who could have benefited from the one-year suspension instead of the lifetime ban will be able to win their case.

3 - Off-ttopic questions

  • Two NPCs appeared lately at Marauder Camp: one trades karavan outpost materials for marauder outpost materials and the other provides crafting blueprints for the making of marauder outpost items. Would it be possible to provide the capitals with an NPC of the latter type, or at least allow everyone (and not just Marauders) to purchase his plans at the Marauder Camp, even if it means having to access them under invulnerability.
    Yes, but it is the second suggestion that will be adopted.
  • Is it normal that the Ranger fame for Marauders cannot exceed -50?
    Yes, because it is a dynamic fame, depending on other fames. Thus, a player's fame for Marauders cannot exceed the inverse of his/her fame for nations. Since a Ranger, by definition, has a fame of at least +50 among all nations, his fame for Marauders can never be more than -50.
  • Isn't this a bit of a contradiction with the Ranger roleplay?
    No. Because my previous answer was about gameplay only: Marauding NPCs will mindlessly (obviously) rush any Ranger who would approach them, since a negative fame with a people indicates that the NPCs of that people do not like you (not the other way around).
    On the other hand, fame has no effect on PCs and their roleplay: PCs from one people or faction can always heal and/or revive any PC from another people or faction if they want to, regardless of their fame for the latter people or faction. So it seems to me (the lorists could probably give you a better answer) that Ranger PCs must, if they want to conform to the Ranger creed, heal (or revive) a Marauder PC in trouble (or coma).

The meeting is closed at 21:50 UTC

Last edited by Nilstilar (3 years ago) | Reason: Fixes after Ulukyn's check

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#232 [en] 

Nilstilar
As the off-peak period ends in the early afternoon for players in Australia and New Zealand, and that some European players might want to use their alts as well, I was wondering : if the test goes well and the community largely wants it, would you consider in the future the possibility of extending this increased tolerance to more time zones?

We chose these hours to test because they are off-peak hours in terms of connections. If the test is positive, we may adjust the time slot by one hour if needed. The goal is to allow players connected at off-peak times to also enjoy the high level game. This is not related to nationalities, so any player who is connected during these hours will benefit from the lifting of the limitation.

While I understand that it's not intended to be related to nationalities, it is impossible for it to not be related. There is no escaping the fact that the majority of the US is in four different time zones, and Australia is on the other side of the planet. East Coast Americans will only be minorly affected (1800-0100 EDT), but us West Coast Americans (1500-2200 PDT) may have our evenings impacted, and anyone in Australia who works a normal daytime job will simply never see the off-peak hours (0800-1500 AEST; 0600-1300 AWST).

It's worth testing, but my thinking is that there will probably be fewer non-EU players with more than 2 accounts, and that it may be seen by some as a form of favoritism regardless of intent which may have additional repercussions. We won't know for sure without testing, of course. I might be wrong. I hope I'm wrong. We'll see. 

This is a very tricky issue with no easy solutions.

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Do not assume that you speak for all just because you are the loudest voice; there are many who disagree that simply have no desire to waste words on you.

#233 [en] 

Gidget
Nilstilar
[b]As the off-peak period ends in the early afternoon for players in Australia and New Zealand, and that some European players might want to use their alts as well, I was wondering : if the test goes well and the community largely wants it, would you consider in the future the possibility of extending this increased tolerance to more time zones?

I have the impression that you understand it the wrong way: the general limit is 2 accounts: In European night time (22 UT - 5 UT) four accounts are allowed. So why would it impact the multi accounts outside Europe more than in Europe? Also: reducing this the the very intention...

That said, basically everything can be done with 2 accounts other than killing certain bosses - where you then need 2 or 3 actual players.

Edited 2 times | Last edited by Elke (3 years ago)

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#234 [en] 

Elke
I have the impression that you understand it the wrong way: the general limit is 2 accounts: In European night time (22 UT - 5 UT) four accounts are allowed. So why would it impact the multi accounts outside Europe more than in Europe? Also: reducing this the the very intention...That said, basically everything can be done with 2 accounts other than killing certain bosses - where you then need 2 or 3 actual players.

I fully understand that there will be fewer European quad-boxers, but I have the impression that you do not understand my criticism. And that's fine; I'm far from the most eloquent, and depressingly accustomed to being misunderstood. Let me attempt to clarify my thinking. 

In Eastern US/Canada night time (1800-0100 EDT) four accounts are allowed. No problem. In fact, they make out quite well as they have practically unrestricted quad-boxing privilieges unless they have truly odd sleep schedules. Lifting the restrictions will work as intended. And I will concede that half of the US population is in that time zone, so if you can only pick one time zone to get more North Americans on, that's the one you should pick.

In Western US/Canada afternoon/evening time (1500 to 2200 PDT) four accounts are allowed. Quad-boxers might have to log off two alts at some point, especially if they are night owls who don't go to bed early. It may or may not be worthwhile for them to have more than two accounts, so the effectiveness of lifting the restriction is questionable. If I ran 3-4 accounts, this would make me drop a subscription or two, and I have a hard time believing that there aren't any other left-coasters that feel the same. 

In Australian day time (0800-1500 AEST; 0600-1300 AWST) four accounts are allowed. Except for the people in Western Oz that want to play for an hour or so before work, they will simply never be on when four accounts are allowed except on weekends. And Asians and Pacific Islanders are also in/near the same time zones. It simply would make no sense for them to bother with more than two accounts, period. Just as it makes little sense for European players that generally are not up between midnight and 7. 

So we have something that helps half of North America, doesn't really do much for the other half, and doesn't do a thing for pretty much anyone else around the Pacific Rim. That limits the benefits of allowing four accounts in ways that feed my skepticism. There is also an (unfortunately unavoidable) inequality there that just rubs me the wrong way. Combine that inequality with the dubious effectiveness and you will get pretty close to the reason for my having reservations about this whole thing.Does that clarify anything?

Like I said, I hope to be proven wrong, and we won't know if we don't test it. But if I'm even partially right, I hope that my input will help craft a more effective solution.

Edited 2 times | Last edited by Gidget (3 years ago)

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Do not assume that you speak for all just because you are the loudest voice; there are many who disagree that simply have no desire to waste words on you.

#235 [en] 

Gidget, I envy your ability to use timezones.

The short of it is that the times were chosen because it's when the population is consistently the lowest. It's definitely not perfect but it is something to try to help fill some gaps in making teams for bosses and other activities. And hopefully a few more homins around if fresh ones need answers. Perhaps it can be expanded after the trial month.

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