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Hello!

This thread is started in response to a discussion about the position of Atys in the universe, which itself was prompted by a discussion about the fact that we know almost nothing about the real physical factors of Atys- except that lakes are alcohol and snow is butter :)

From RyzomWiki

There is a light source that does not move in the sky, but grows brighter and dimmer creating the day/night cycle.

There are also a ringed planet, a nebula, and an orange moon (or planet?) in the sky.

The light source seems to be the strangest phenomenon... If it is stationary in our sky, and is in fact a star, then Atys must have one rotation for one revolution of the 'sun.'

I have done some research on this matter, and the problem with the "Sun" is even worse than noted by Placio.

I mapped the New Lands using my distance sense to markers that I had set and careful observations and plotting and produced a True Map of Atys http://forums.ryzom.com/showthread.php?t=34855 and published it under my father's name on the bulletin boards, but as the paper notes, I was able to estimate the distance from the New Lands to the "Sun." It is only 150 to 250 km away.

In addition, the nebula is closer to Atys than the sun is!

It is my feeling that the "Sun" must be an artificial construct, held fixed in the sky by some magic, whether made by Jena and the Karavan or placed as an evident miracle by Ma-Duk and the Kami I will not express an opinion. However, since it is so close, and the planet as we know is round and made of plants, there must be more "Suns" placed around the planet to illuminate and support the life that is Atys.

Thanks Bittty, indeed if the object is so close, then we don't have to discuss what type of star and how it would produce such light patterns- it is clearly artificial. Now, if that isn't the star in our system, what body do we and our apparent neighbors orbit? Is the ringed planet a rougue planet and there is no star? (how would the planet and the other moon thing be illuminated then?) is the system revolving around a black hole? (also why are the ringed palnet and moon visible...) Is the orange moon actually a brown dwarf?

I suspected something was wrong with the nebula- it goes in nearly the opposite direction as the orange moon around Atys.

Once we know what is in the center of our system and what the orange moon is then maybe we can explain why the ringed planet rises and falls in the same part of the sky :)

Surely Atys is flat and these lights in the sky are placed there by Jena for our amusement.

Of course role-play-wise, everything in the sky could be a hologram projected by the Karavan to hide their ships or orbiting labs. I personally don't think they would necessarily hide something which would show how powerful they are, or that instead the holograms would be used to push their goals- like a giant Kara sign providing light to the planet, and the shape of the goddess glowing in the night sky. However for the sake of study we could assume they are real, unless facts prove otherwise.

If this can interest you, I was working a few years before on that point, and I wrote the observetion on the Ryzom Wiki, but in French before the fusion.
Here you have the page: http://fr.wiki.ryzom.com/wiki/Astronomie

Bittty, Are you certain about the nebula being closer to Atys than the light source? It seems mostly fixed relative to the background stars.

If your measurements are correct though maybe we need to discuss how Atys' system is supposed to work, even if animation is not ideal? The nebula could be gasses around a white dwarf, and Atys, the ringed planet and orange moon have been pushed back so far we cannot see the star compared to the gasses? A white dwarf also puts out mostly UV light, so the ringed planet and orange moon could be Fluorescent, which is why the seem to emit more visible light than is emitted from any object in our system?

What I call the "nebula" is the multicolored blob that rises in the approximate south at 18h and sets in the approximate north at 06h. It is not fixed relative to anything, and certainly moves past the stars at a steady clip.

As far as its distance is concerned, I will repeat my measurements soon and double check my surveying diagrams and report back.

Note that the stars in the night sky move in unusual patterns and that there is NO pole to their motions. If you look at one section it seems that they are moving consistently in one direction, but if you try to find the area where the stars circle a pole, there is none. My best bet is that the "stars" are an atmospheric phenomenon. That can also be seen by the fact that they pass in front of both the "sun" and the nebula.

The view of the sky that we see clearly shows a non-Newtonian system (speaking OOC) (i.e. not one that is built on stable orbits (starting with the fixed sun).

-- B.

ok, perhaps the rotational axis and position of the nebula move over time, I last observed the multicolored blob rising in the east, just south of our light, and moving at the same speed as the white dots to the west- while the orange moon rises near the ringed planet and heads southwest.

I did some measurements last night and they do confirm that the nebula must be closer than the sun, but also added to my confusion.

I did the experiment by looking at the sky from near the Kara TP in Void, and then teleporting to Fairhaven. (This is about the longest line of sight that can be quickly traversed that is mostly North-south, thus emphasizing the parallax view of the sun/light source.)

That parallax motion changes the direction of the sun from being 15 to 20 deg. south of east to being due east. The same jump took changed the direction of the nebula from about 15 degrees east of south to more like 70 degrees east of south and obviously closer to the apparent position of the sun.

Based on this, the nebula is not only closer to Atys than the Sun, but *substantially* closer. However, it also introduces another problem, because in both locations the nebula passes quite close to directly overhead at 0h, meaning that the plane of it's path changes angle depending upon the location of the observer. (I.e. it moves aporox. S->N in Void and E->W in Fairhaven. I have yet to figure the geometry that will account for that.

However, I have not seen any variation of the nebula motion with the seasons. (Ditto for the ringed and orange objects.)

Deep thinking is in the future.

What if Atys was actually inside something bigger and the sky was artificial?

Yup, I already stated that our sky, which has at least one artificial object in it already, could just be a hologram, etc. but maybe you are suggesting that it is an actual structure, like a shell around atys? I guess the karavan could live on the exterior surface of the shell then. The shell would have either been created before cults were used to control homins or neither kami or Kara has the ability to change the images displayed on the interior of the shell.

Years ago, I was very interested to study the sky, and, I did the observation in FH expecting that it would be the same in any country. But really I was so puzzled that I wrote my notes, and no more! (Feylin, an old zoraï womin of my friends helped me).
Now I feel me less alone :) and I can give you my more crazy idea. For me, it was a sum of mismatches job designing the Atys sky. What about if new developments make a "realistic" sky, now that Ryzom is OpenSource? Maybe we can ask to the Ryzom teams if it would be possible? What is your opinion?