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#37 Added by Tgwaste 8 years ago Report | Quote[en] 

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Seto
Yubina
I don’t want to know everything or specific numbers, just some more information than we already have. And more advertising on things that are going on behind the curtain, to make all see that there is a lot going on. And maybe to attract more volunteers.

Not just to you but to those who claim its cheap and base this off of hosting plans for fps game servers (i know of the one of those personall in that list) you put a mmo on one of those that server will chock to death. They are capable of maybe 64 simo not 100s . I did a netstat on my con. There are a total of 3 servers i can see from my end.
shard.ryzom.com
shards.ryzom.com
server-ipip-ip.whatever (did not copy it down as it is just a rev dns for a raw ip.)
shard.ryzom.com is the log in server once logged in it goes to close wait
shards keeps a active established connection this is the play server
the 3rd server-ip... is the chat server (can only see it when your in megacorp.io do to log in happening in the background and megacorp acting almost like a proxy you wont see shard. pop up there. But the active connection to the chat server you do see.

So even if it only cost them 100ish per month per server for a colated remote hosting service plan (it cost way more) the real cost is tripple what every one wants to believe. As with out doubt ryzom has 3 servers minimally hosted on 3 seperate machines. Chances are its really 6 physical machines for redunency purposes to prevent things like mobs becoming unresponsive or chat going down or players not being able to log in. So 1 server each at any given time is powering ryzom probably load balanced between the 2 per part. Now this is assuming of course they are using one play server for every region of ryzom and not multiple physical macines 1 or 2 per region. Just because we only have one play server does not mean that ryzom runs on one machine.

As for your own thinking the problem would still exist. Even if the ryzom devs said it was costing them between 3k and 10k a month etc people would still say well they made their money for the costs after just x people so they should reduce the ammount we pay etc etc.

The owners are not just doing this to give us a game to play they are doing it to also make money. And truth of the matter is they are operating on a shoe string budget. They have employees etc. Again even if it only cots them a 100 a month to host the server theres still their employees pay checks. If and i sure they do have a 3d art team in the us the starting slary is 40k usd for a 3d artist out of colledge. Thats what they should make most will work for way less just for their portfolio. But the point is they have programers artists admins who keep the servers going likely a on call contracted tech to fix the hardware or a service plan to next day deliver parts/full servers etc. Break all this down by the month and you got minimally a few grand per month not 100...

What they are doing with this idea is working to increase profits so they can do more for ryzom when it comes to content bug squashing etc.


This isn't true. Its been confirmed via multiple sources now. It costs a few hundred a month and Ryzom is ran on one server.

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Tgwaste

#38 Added by Lopyrech 8 years ago Report | Quote[en] 

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They have employees etc. Again even if it only cots them a 100 a month to host the server theres still their employees pay checks. If and i sure they do have a 3d art team in the us the starting slary is 40k usd for a 3d artist out of colledge.
As far as I know, the only full time employee is ulukyn (dev & server manager) ; there might be some people who works as freelance from time to time, but nothing like a full time 3D artist : they are 100% volunteer.

I think you are grossly overestimating how much money ryzom gains : I remember numbers from Tamarea saying there is 300ish logged on at peak on weekday, and 500 at peak on weekend. This mean that, at most, there is 2000 paying account (and that's a very optimistic estimation, imo), which is not a lot of money (barely enough for server + ulukyn wage, basically)

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#39 Added by Placio 8 years ago Report | Quote[en] 

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Seto
The owners are not just doing this to give us a game to play they are doing it to also make money. And truth of the matter is they are operating on a shoe string budget. They have employees etc. Again even if it only cots them a 100 a month to host the server theres still their employees pay checks. If and i sure they do have a 3d art team in the us the starting slary is 40k usd for a 3d artist out of colledge. Thats what they should make most will work for way less just for their portfolio. But the point is they have programers artists admins who keep the servers going likely a on call contracted tech to fix the hardware or a service plan to next day deliver parts/full servers etc. Break all this down by the month and you got minimally a few grand per month not 100...

What they are doing with this idea is working to increase profits so they can do more for ryzom when it comes to content bug squashing etc.

CSRs= Volunteers
Ryzom Forge (where the only new art and other content is coming from)= Volunteers
Event Team= Volunteers
Devs are probably the same former Nervax employess that formed Winchgate- so owners get paid depending on their partnership agreement.

Either way, WG is a private partnership so no point in arguing about their finances since we will never see them :P

I really doubt that allowing formerly subbed players return to f2p will increase profits. Maybe if they split the current sub between a payment for more storage and a payment for max levels/catz then a player low on cash could just pay to have their levels active, but not access their storage for that month- or you could pay just for more storage if you don't want to level another toon. However, just creating a whole new class of character, SuperMinimaster, just because some trolls on Steam have a different definition of f2p seems like a waste.

#40 Added by Akura 8 years ago Report | QuoteMultilingual 

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Arcueid
Ich bin noch immer dafür, Außenposten per Auktion zu verteilen. Jedes Wochenende stehen alle OPs offen, Startgebot 1 Euro. Der höchste Bieter gewinnt. Besitzt also Gilde X einen OP, braucht nur Gilde Y 1 Euro bieten und wenn Gilde X den OP halten will, muß sie auf 2 erhöhen. Jedes Wochenende wird so Geld aus dem Nichts erschaffen...

Alternativ: NPC Rüstungen in Leicht, Medium und Heavy als Cash Shop Item vermieten (!), eine Woche Aen? Für nur 1,99 klar! Mikrotransaktionen heißt das Zauberwort...

PS: Nur bedingt ernst gemeint ;)

1. wäre das PtW was es zu verhindern gilt, 2. wer würde das machen? und 3. wurden die OP´s schon aus dem Spiel genommen die wurden so massiv abgebaut, uninteressant und teuer das man heute schon froh sein muss wenn es überhaupt einen im Monat gibt.
Zum Glück hast du es nicht ernst gemeint und wolltest nur meinen Beitrag ins lächerliche ziehen (vermute ich mal), aber dennoch denke ich, mein Vorschlag ist fair er erspart dir nur Zeit von der du in Ryzom unglaublich viel hast. Und ehrlich gesagt denke ich sogar man müsse den Reiz um die OP´s sogar ganz dringend wieder erhöhen um wieder verschleiß zu haben oder die Gefechte anzufachen. Scheiß auf Riten oder Content, der größte Content in einem Onlinespiel sind: (oh Wunder) die Spieler. Es gilt also Hemmschwellen abzubauen und nicht aufzubauen wie es die meisten antipvpler gerne hätten und auch bisher immer geschehen ist.

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Akura Delray

#41 Added by Rikutatis 8 years ago Report | Quote[en] 

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I like the idea below. B2P + cash shop would be an ideal model, but F2P + microtransactions could work too if it avoids the P2W problem. The problem with that is that it'd require cosmetics to be up on the cash shop. There's not a lot of assets available in that category (mostly stuff used for events), and no full time paid artist available on the team to do that.
Akura
Scheiße alles was ich ausgearbeitet hab ist beim Absenden gelöscht worden =( Daher versuch ich es nochmal kurz zusammenzufassen.

Tolle Idee aber ich fürchte bei der Aktivität werden euch da nur Einnahmen wegbrechen. Gegenvorschlag:

f2p= keine Einschränkungen außer dieser Erfahrungsbonus muss weg.
Premium = 4,99 dafür mit Erfahrungsbonus und den anderen Sachen wie Lagerplatz und was ihr noch so einführen wollt.
Ingameshop = Pakete kaufen um sie gegen super Kristalle einzutauschen. Dies bietet Spielern die Möglichkeit mehr Geld auszugeben als sie es aktuell können ohne dafür übermäßig große Vorteile zu haben. Allerdings bietet dieses System mehr Vorteile die kurz erläutern möchte:

Ein Spieler könnte mit den Superkristallen max. 12k exp bekommen und so etwas schneller die unendlich vielen Skills hochziehen, oder aber er hat genug Geld um sich 5 große Steampakete zu kaufen und die Kristalle hier im Spiel gegen Dapper einzutauschen bei anderen Premiumspieler mit weniger Geld. Auch könntet ihr Aktionen starten wie doppelte Punkte fürs Geld (solltet ihr auch am Anfang tun). Neue Gegenstände (tollen Hacken) die nur für Punkte gekauft werden können, oder auch kleine Änderungen (z.b. ein Skript das erlaubt die Farbe einer Rüsstung zu ändern). Oder den Premiumaccount interessanter Gestallten in dem man monatlich 5 Punkte gutschreibt. Die Möglichkeiten sind Grenzenlos!

Steampakete:
2,99 für 20 Punkte, 4,99 für 50 Punkte, 9,99 für 120 Punkte

Tauschwert:
1 Punkt kostet ein 50er Stapel (999) Superkrisis, 2 Punkte ein 100er Stack, 3 ein 150er Stack, 4 ein 200er Stack und 5 ein 250er Stack.

Das ist kein PaytoWin sondern ein Pay to endlich kann ich einen der unendlichen vielen unnützen Skills schneller Hochziehen und bin wieder motiviert.

Bei mir sehe das so aus:
Ich würde Premium holen für die doppelten EXP 4,99 und mindestens einmal im Monat das große Paket für 9,99 um nicht so viel Buddeln zu müssen um mein Crafting hochzuziehen. Also subjektiv weniger bezahlen um keine Nachteile zu haben aber objektiv mehr ausgeben um mir einen Zeitvorteil zu gönnen.

Last edited by Rikutatis (8 years ago)

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"We are Kami. We are here to be you. We are many as you are of many minds. We are one as you are one in Ma-Duk."

#42 Added by Talkirc 8 years ago Report | Quote[en] 

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i do wish that i could find the old offical forum post from pre-merger where they told us that all servers would be moved to a single 16 core AMD-64 (single opt proc) with 64gb of ram, raid, ect ect.  bottom line, the server is indeed cheep, and if you really want to know a few things about the back story, there's a player/dev that owns a server compay, and offered to host the game totally for free because of it's low requirements on todays hardware.  not sure how long you've been here on atys, but it might surprise you how some forum posts related to things in the past can't be found anymore.

while you may not know my name due to my inactivity in the recent past, i'm a long time player, forums reader and poster, as well as someone that's offered ideas and much more.

sure WG wants to make money, but the sad fact is that in all of ryzom's history, there's been little money invested in anything other then the server it's self, if ryzom shut down tomorrow and the full code was released, i have NO doubt that it would be only a few short days before a totally free (or nearly free) server would be up and running, saddly due to the losses of toons, rp history, levels and items, it wouldn't be quiet the same.

bottom line, saying that ryzom is expensive to host is just laughable.  i'll not continue down this path beyond this point, because it's clear that you will not admit that ryzom's over 12 years old now (13 if you count closed testing and open testing, iirc).

if you really want to see for yourself how simple and easy, visit ryzom core, get a copy of the server and client data, invite some people to help you, set up a server on a home pc, with a poor connection and watch the fun, at our highest peak in years we're only at most 500 strong, tell me how you need so many servers for so few people (btw fps's have 1000's of ppl using them, so that's a really poor arguement)  and OVH hosting of the game only needs say 25 sub's to run, there are single players that have paid for as many as 9 accounts (a full team) but with todays rules and limits 4 or 5 is the max, still that's one person paying 15 to 20% of the server cost all by themselves, and i know of at least 4 that have done this, that's 80 to 90% of the server cost right there... a few more covers that, then the rest is pay for our one paid dev and the company to make a little money with.

ok rant over.

talk

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Remickla (atys)
Other games - they give you a cookie whether you succeed or not, in fact you don't even have to participate. Ryzom takes your cookie, eats it in front of you, and slaps you 2 or 3 times for bringing a cookie in the first place.
What Cookies is about ---- Contact Cookies ---- Cookies at Events ---- For Cookies Diggers and Crafters
Useful Links:
cookies approved referance data, guides, and more. --- ryztools web version --- talkIRC forum post table of contents

#43 Added by Imotep 8 years ago Report | Quote[fr] 

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Hello,
Passer Ryzom en F2P,va dejà avoir le mérite d'arreter de nous faire payer ce jeu qui évolu plus, déjà depuis longtemps.Bien avant la fusion ce jeu était sur le declin,en perte de vitesse de maniere croissante.Et,on nous a fait prendre les vessies pour des lanternes,en nous promettant des nouveautés ect.......Cela avait juste pour but de garder les comptes payant des irreductibles de Ryzom.

Les dirigeants ont voulu 2 choses en faisant un fusion :
Le regroupement de peu de joueurs qu'ils restaient sur les serveurs différents.Que cela donne un semblant de communauté plus grande.Une bonne idée car les serveurs etaient peu peuplés dans les autres communautés.
Mais aussi , et surtout d'essayer de nous refaire recommence nos perso à zéro.Pour masquer la nom évolution du jeu.Et ça permettait aussi d'occuper les joueurs avec rien.Uniquement dans l'espoir de les refaire payer depuis leur commencement de leur ou leurs persos,Mais cela consistait en faite à avoir du payer le jeu pendant des années pour tout perdre.Mais beaucoup ont pas apprecié et son parti.Car souvenez vous,ceux qui avaient tout perdu.Là je parle uniquement des lvls .Il était impossible de les récupérer après la fusion.Donc c'était bien une raison plus que financière qu'autre chose,meme si certains crient au et fort aux mensonges.Laissons les crier,cela a au moins le mérite de nous faire rire.....
Le Staff savait très bien que la fusion aurait fait un semblant de renouveau sur Ryzom .Mais un jeu sans développement ni de nouveau contenu,consiste à faire mourir le jeu.Ceci est très vrai aussi pour d'autres domaines de l'Irl .
Mais certains doivent vivre dans un autre monde.....de rèves .A rester dans leurs reves,le jeu est lui plongé dans un profond un cauchemard de lassitude.
Le développement n'a pas été plus présent qu'avant,au contraire meme...Une fois de plus les dirigeants ont rien compris à la gestion d'un jeu et d'une entreprise.

Le F2P sur Ryzom peut apporter plus de monde,c'est certain.Ce n'est pas une mauvaise idée.Le grand risque c'est que,si les contenus payant sont trop peu nombreux ou peu intéressant.Cela ne motivera pas les joueurs à faire chauffer leur CB .Pour motiver les joueurs à payer,il faudra leurs présenter des items,des stuffs,des autorisations et des possibilites plus grandes ,qu'un joueur restant en Free .
Sinon le F2P fera tout simplement cloturer le peu de comptes payants restant sur Ryzom.Car il y aura aucun intéret à payer.Donc en finalité,perdre le peu d'argent que le jeu rapportait avant le F2P.Alors sera une fois de plus une mort annoncée.

Le F2P est bien connu des joueurs,Mais nous avons bien vu que si un jeu meme gratuit n'a pas d'évolution en développent,le jeu fini par disparaitre assez vite .
J'espere juste que pour Ryzom , cela ne sera pas le cas.Sinon au tant cloturer ce jeu de suite.

Beaucoup de jeu en F2P sont sur le marché,et très nombreux sont ceux qui perdurent par leur bons fonctionnents et leur bonne gestion des nouveautés , également une bonne gestion des bans.

Bans qui sont expliquer sur les forum adequat.pas comme sur Ryzom,ou c'est énormément à la tete du client.Une explication de ban sur un forum.Permet au minimum un dialogue avec les joueurs restant et de comprendre la décision .Apres etre d'accord ou pas,chacun à sa façon de percevoir les choses.Mais au moins il y a une communication.

Et surtout des évents.Des évents qui suivent souvent l'actualité des vacances Irl .Et des évents qui, eux suivent l'actualité et la progression du jeu.Chose qu'il y a plus sur Ryzom.

En conclusion pour ma part;
Le F2P pour Ryzom peut le sauver ,peut le faire perdurer,Mais sera pas une solution miracle si rien derrière de concret,et surtout de prévu convenablement......

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Imotep.
Chef De Clan " Les Prophètes De La Lumière "

#44 Added by Arfur 8 years ago Report | Quote[en] 

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Arcueid
I'm still voting for auctioning Ourposts. Each weekend all Ops are free for bidding, starting at $1, highest bidder wins. Let's say guild X got the Op and guild Y invests $1, guild X is forced to pay another to make it $2. Generating money from nothing...

Alternative: Light, medium and heavy NPC armors as rentable (!) cash shop items. One week Aen armor? Just $1.99 and you're in! Microtransactions is the magic word...

PS: Take my suggestions with a *big* grain of salt ;)

Sorry but any kind of Pay to Win is not getting my vote.

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It's bad luck to be superstitious . . .



Palta e decata, nan nec ilne matala.

When one goes on a journey it is not the scenery that changes, but the traveller

#45 Added by Kigan 8 years ago Report | Quote[fr] 

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Imotep
Hello,
... souvenez vous,ceux qui avaient tout perdu.Là je parle uniquement des lvls .Il était impossible de les récupérer après la fusion.

Mon personnage d'après la fusion avait les levels de mon personnage avant la fusion, et je n'ai pas eu à le remonter.

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Author of the novel "La Guerre Sacrée" : https://la-guerre-sacree.fr/

#46 Added by Seto 8 years ago Report | Quote[en] 

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Arfur
Arcueid
I'm still voting for auctioning Ourposts. Each weekend all Ops are free for bidding, starting at $1, highest bidder wins. Let's say guild X got the Op and guild Y invests $1, guild X is forced to pay another to make it $2. Generating money from nothing...

Alternative: Light, medium and heavy NPC armors as rentable (!) cash shop items. One week Aen armor? Just $1.99 and you're in! Microtransactions is the magic word...

PS: Take my suggestions with a *big* grain of salt ;)

Sorry but any kind of Pay to Win is not getting my vote.

I agree originally the cash shop was suppose to only speed things up a little bit not make it impossible for free players to get there. I was part of the staff of the game that started it all. WE only had a donation pay system. If you donated you got a special cape a few starter items etc. The only one that was really useful through out the game was the ring that you could use to port back and out of danger. You did not need to be stationary to use it so if being chased by mobs you could click it and port out of danger. The rest of the stuff was pretty basic and was worthless once you hit lvl 20 or so. Later we was going to have a true cash shop pay a few bucks get extra xp little more storage little more gold etc drops from mobs a little more materials from digging and harvesting. Not only get good stuff for cash. You were suppose to get a little more say 10% more if you paid and that ayment was going to be say 100 a year only. In other words if you paid month to month or yerly you paid the same. We never wanted what we see now.

Look at wartune a browser based game as a example of how bad it truelly is. If you want to get any where you pay. You pay to get the best stat boosting cloth you pay to get the best mounts you pay to get boxes that you then need to exchange for cloths mounts pets etc. You pay to max out your pet to merge your pets to do most every dang thing in game. Then theres the fact the game is nothing but daily clicks. daily blitzes to lvl daily blitzes to get gems daily this daily that.

The plan as laid out in the original post here is perfect imo and for the most part what we have right now it just becomes reversable! This is great news and should get allot / all the i would pay but what if i can not pay next month player to pay. Lets face it yeh $10.33 usd is cheap yes but in the us it can be hard to budget out even tht much money for a game. Other things come first rent groceries net to play ryzom net to check email put in other job apps cell phone bills gas money etc. 10 bucks at the end of a week can mean getting to work or not getting to work. Now with the plan as is a player can goo sweet i got 10.33 usd left im gona pay for a month. Then the next month damn i wasnt able to pay oh well half xp for me :\

So let me say this Good job ryzom devs you knocked it out of the park on this one!

Now as for cash shop perma items and stuff how about non player boosting things non combat/storage pets like yubos maybe for the adventerous joker a gingo maybe some custom armor colors some other goofy things maybe a new dance emote things that do not effect game play but that a char can have fun with. Id pay 10 bucks for a yubo pet or 20 for something else pet wise that was just a fun thing to have type pet.
But please do not so much as have it have storage or fight or be rideable less it just gives a different appearance to the standard mek with out any other changes.

There are ways to use a cash shop to make extra money for the game with out makign it impossible for the non paying player to get to equal footing.

The mmo land scape needs reshaped again pay to win must die lets use ryzo to kill that old crap system....

#47 Added by Azram 8 years ago Report | Quote[fr] 

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On peut facilement imaginer des trucs que tout le monde voudrait en jeu, par exemple, des extensions pour les hall de guilde.

Le blême c'est que les hall de guilde sont des achats à vie, tu achète une fois et même si tu es seul dans ta guilde, tu t'occupe de rien, c'est pas grave ya aucun risque.

Si on passait a un système où les membres de la guilde devaient contribuer un minimum pour maintenir leur hall, par exemple 10M / semaine, ce qui est passablement ridicule comme somme même pour un mec seul du moment qu'il est un minimum actif.

On a des portes pour les entraîneurs dans les hall, pourquoi ne pas les utilisés comme passage vers de nouveau hall que les guildes pourraient acheter ?
4 hall accessible directement depuis le hall principal.

Bon à partir de là,
A l'achat :
GH dans les capitales = +20M dappers / hall supplémentaire ou via CB 
GH dans les villes secondaire = +10M dappers / hall supplémentaire ou via CB

Si ça peut amener du peuple dans les villes secondaire, ça pourra pas faire de mal.

Entretient identique partout.
10M / semaine / hall ou via CB


Ok avec 4 hall supplémentaire soit 5 hall ça fait 50M de dappers / semaine c'est raisonnable, les fainéants pourront toujours faire chauffer la CB.
(Je ne donne aucun tarif c'est pas à moi d'en décider, mais si c'est trop cher ça ne passera pas)

Si les dappers / € ne sont pas dispo pour payer le hall, il devient alors impossible de retirer ou de déposer du matos, pour réactivé le hall, il faut verser 10M + " le nombre de semaine due " ceci afin d'éviter les désactivations programmées.

NOTE: tout membre de la guilde devrait pouvoir acheter une extension ou un pack d'entretien pour les extensions.

#48 Added by Imotep 8 years ago Report | Quote[fr] 

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Bonjour;
Kigan et bien pourtant ça à fait legion les mecontents qui avaient perdus leurs lvls.Et il y avait à l'epoque une impossiblite de les recuperer au depart par decision du staff.

" La reponse etait,il fallait faire la demande avant la fusion " Au vu d'un nombre important de mecontents et de deabonnenets,ils ont changés leur fusil d'épaule.Mais une fois de plus bien trop tard.Le mal etait fait.

Mais je ne pense pas que l'histoire des lvls soit le plus important à débatre ici.Mais je suis ouvert à d'autres complements via le mail.
Merci......

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Imotep.
Chef De Clan " Les Prophètes De La Lumière "

#49 Added by Mermaidia 8 years ago Report | Quote[es] 

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Je pense que le jour où il y aura un shop sur Ryzom signera pour moi la fin de mon avatar. Et je ne pense pas être la seule dans ce cas.

A chaque phase du jeu, il a été question de mettre les joueurs sur un pied d'égalité que ce soit pour la sortie des métiers, les maraudeurs légers, la fusion et la perte d'inventaires etc...
Comment peut-on parler d'égalité dès lors que l'on touche au porte-monnaie ?

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Mermaidia, heureuse Chef des Eclaireurs d'Atys
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Homins, unissons-nous et agissons dès maintenant afin de préparer notre futur sur la Belle Atys!
Libres et fiers, en quête de notre histoire commune et de nos racines, nous retrouverons et protégerons ce monde qui nous a tant fait vibrer!

#50 Added by Siela 8 years ago Report | QuoteMultilingual 

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I am completely against pay2win as well... so i dislike the idea of a shop that gives a real advantage, but how about skin shopping?

I mean it doesn't help to win to have a Kirosta or Arma or whatever mob mount/packer, as long as they have the same stats. And i'm pretty sure it could help get some money to make more content for Ryzom.

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#51 Added by Ethernity 8 years ago Report | Quote[fr] 

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Coucou,
Le F2P est pas une mauvaise idée au contraire.Apres on aime,on aime pas.On reste,on reste pas.C'est la vie......
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