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#31 Added by Arcueid 8 years ago Report | QuoteMultilingual 

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I'm still voting for auctioning Ourposts. Each weekend all Ops are free for bidding, starting at $1, highest bidder wins. Let's say guild X got the Op and guild Y invests $1, guild X is forced to pay another to make it $2. Generating money from nothing...

Alternative: Light, medium and heavy NPC armors as rentable (!) cash shop items. One week Aen armor? Just $1.99 and you're in! Microtransactions is the magic word...

PS: Take my suggestions with a *big* grain of salt ;)

Last edited by Arcueid (8 years ago)

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#32 Added by Seto 8 years ago Report | Quote[en] 

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Talkirc
seto,

i'm a hardware tech, believe me when i say that ryzom in no way needs more then one server for ALL shards. (in fact, if you ask one of the major players in the ryzom dev world {katemi [could be spelled wrong]} he'll tell you the same.

while building a personal server can be a semi costly endevor, (for about 8,000 us you can build a server that would run all ryzom shards, ts3 and many other softwares)

you can download the core server software and run them on a current level desktop, and people have. this is fact, not conjection or theory. as for the costs of servers per month: here's a few public game server companies and their prices.

https://www.gameservers.com/dedicated/
69.99 to 179.99 usd per month

https://www.velia.net/shop/region/frankfurt-am-main
59 to 69 eruo a month (avg 1.35 usd per 1 euro)

https://www.24shells.net/specials/?gclid=COuD6o-ji88CFUIvgQodFjYN _w
79.99 to 119.99 usd per month

that's just the top 3 finds with a quick google search for "dedicated game server hosting".

now, build that same server (up to 10,000 usd) pay less for dedicated static IP and 1 gbps+ with unlimited or multi TB traffic limit.... the whole point of the merge and reason for the PW hour is because ALL shards are running on a single server.

there's no way the game is running on more then one server or there would be no PW hour, and the offical reason for the PW's was because the back-up server is running on the same server as the play server (not to mention the test server as well).

as i said i'm a hardware tech, i build personal, gaming, and business desktops, as well as servers and i also consult and advise on hardware for mainframes.  ryzom may have once been a very intense program to run, but with the more advanced hardware we have now, it's not the case anymore.

the ryzom forge prompted me to look into the idea of programming, but it's not my specialty in any way and i'm very noob about it.

perhaps you missed the forum posts and/or the forge meetings about the shards all running on a single server.  it's possible that ryzom might one day need more then one server, but that's going to take 1000's of active players 24/7/365.  until then, a single server will do it all (and even with 1000's of active players, only the play shard, known as "atys", will need to be scaled to more then one server; the yubo (test shard) will only need one because it won't have 1000's, or be likely to have 100's using it at one time. the back up server might need to be scaled to a 2nd server, but i feel safe saying that it would take 10's of 1000's of daily active players to need that.

i hope that my links (as examples) will help you understand that this new step they're taking will in no way bring ryzom to it's death.  i can think of at least 10 people that sub by the year, that don't even play much at all, but still continue to support the game.

ryzom is a game supported by dedicated fans, there's a very high chance that the game will always have the needed subs to ensure the server stays up, the only real issue is the owners and how greedy they are in terms of profits, if they love ryzom like many of us do, they'll find other ways to make profit, and use the subs for keeping the game alive (not likely but we can always hope that profits aren't their only passion in life).

ok, i've said a ton again, living up to my namesake yet again.

if anyone doubts some of the facts i've shared, do your own searches, use keywords like "dedicated", "game", and "server" and you will be very surprised at how cheep a decent server is.

anyway i'll shut up now,
talk


I to am a hardware tech i have been working in the field for 23 years. There is at a absolute min log in chat and play servers hosted on at min 3 machines.

You all base these costs based on what you see offered on the web for web hosting or hosting things like fps games at a co loc hosting service where they host on virtual servers. Doing that sure you can do it for a 100. If ryzom was hosted on such garbage it would be down more often than up. It might be hosted co lo but it is on its own dedicated servers. This game cost a hell of allot more than you think. But your all welcome to believe what you want. Ryzoms teams a little more causual than most so maybe they will post what it costs and how things are done. Hey maybe youll prove me wrong but i seriously dobt that....

#33 Added by Yubina 8 years ago Report | Quote[en] 

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Seto
This game cost a hell of allot more than you think. But your all welcome to believe what you want. Ryzoms teams a little more causual than most so maybe they will post what it costs and how things are done. Hey maybe youll prove me wrong but i seriously dobt that....

If customers know what’s done with their money, especially on more or less open source stuff, they give it more easily away.

#34 Added by Seto 8 years ago Report | Quote[en] 

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Yubina
Seto
This game cost a hell of allot more than you think. But your all welcome to believe what you want. Ryzoms teams a little more causual than most so maybe they will post what it costs and how things are done. Hey maybe youll prove me wrong but i seriously dobt that....

If customers know what’s done with their money, especially on more or less open source stuff, they give it more easily away.

While true youd think theres also the proble of customer being un educated on actuall costs or think because 10k pay and the game cost 1k a montht hat they should only have to pay 10 cents each. Typically game companies will not release how much it costs to run a game publically because of this. Ive been in ones where they did and basically no one wanted to pay because the cost was already covered by other people so the game closed for ever.

#35 Added by Yubina 8 years ago Report | Quote[en] 

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I don’t want to know everything or specific numbers, just some more information than we already have. And more advertising on things that are going on behind the curtain, to make all see that there is a lot going on. And maybe to attract more volunteers.

#36 Added by Seto 8 years ago Report | Quote[en] 

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Yubina
I don’t want to know everything or specific numbers, just some more information than we already have. And more advertising on things that are going on behind the curtain, to make all see that there is a lot going on. And maybe to attract more volunteers.

Not just to you but to those who claim its cheap and base this off of hosting plans for fps game servers (i know of the one of those personall in that list) you put a mmo on one of those that server will chock to death. They are capable of maybe 64 simo not 100s . I did a netstat on my con. There are a total of 3 servers i can see from my end.
shard.ryzom.com
shards.ryzom.com
server-ipip-ip.whatever (did not copy it down as it is just a rev dns for a raw ip.)
shard.ryzom.com is the log in server once logged in it goes to close wait
shards keeps a active established connection this is the play server
the 3rd server-ip... is the chat server (can only see it when your in megacorp.io do to log in happening in the background and megacorp acting almost like a proxy you wont see shard. pop up there. But the active connection to the chat server you do see.

So even if it only cost them 100ish per month per server for a colated remote hosting service plan (it cost way more) the real cost is tripple what every one wants to believe. As with out doubt ryzom has 3 servers minimally hosted on 3 seperate machines. Chances are its really 6 physical machines for redunency purposes to prevent things like mobs becoming unresponsive or chat going down or players not being able to log in. So 1 server each at any given time is powering ryzom probably load balanced between the 2 per part. Now this is assuming of course they are using one play server for every region of ryzom and not multiple physical macines 1 or 2 per region. Just because we only have one play server does not mean that ryzom runs on one machine.

As for your own thinking the problem would still exist. Even if the ryzom devs said it was costing them between 3k and 10k a month etc people would still say well they made their money for the costs after just x people so they should reduce the ammount we pay etc etc.

The owners are not just doing this to give us a game to play they are doing it to also make money. And truth of the matter is they are operating on a shoe string budget. They have employees etc. Again even if it only cots them a 100 a month to host the server theres still their employees pay checks. If and i sure they do have a 3d art team in the us the starting slary is 40k usd for a 3d artist out of colledge. Thats what they should make most will work for way less just for their portfolio. But the point is they have programers artists admins who keep the servers going likely a on call contracted tech to fix the hardware or a service plan to next day deliver parts/full servers etc. Break all this down by the month and you got minimally a few grand per month not 100...

What they are doing with this idea is working to increase profits so they can do more for ryzom when it comes to content bug squashing etc.

#37 Added by Tgwaste 8 years ago Report | Quote[en] 

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Seto
Yubina
I don’t want to know everything or specific numbers, just some more information than we already have. And more advertising on things that are going on behind the curtain, to make all see that there is a lot going on. And maybe to attract more volunteers.

Not just to you but to those who claim its cheap and base this off of hosting plans for fps game servers (i know of the one of those personall in that list) you put a mmo on one of those that server will chock to death. They are capable of maybe 64 simo not 100s . I did a netstat on my con. There are a total of 3 servers i can see from my end.
shard.ryzom.com
shards.ryzom.com
server-ipip-ip.whatever (did not copy it down as it is just a rev dns for a raw ip.)
shard.ryzom.com is the log in server once logged in it goes to close wait
shards keeps a active established connection this is the play server
the 3rd server-ip... is the chat server (can only see it when your in megacorp.io do to log in happening in the background and megacorp acting almost like a proxy you wont see shard. pop up there. But the active connection to the chat server you do see.

So even if it only cost them 100ish per month per server for a colated remote hosting service plan (it cost way more) the real cost is tripple what every one wants to believe. As with out doubt ryzom has 3 servers minimally hosted on 3 seperate machines. Chances are its really 6 physical machines for redunency purposes to prevent things like mobs becoming unresponsive or chat going down or players not being able to log in. So 1 server each at any given time is powering ryzom probably load balanced between the 2 per part. Now this is assuming of course they are using one play server for every region of ryzom and not multiple physical macines 1 or 2 per region. Just because we only have one play server does not mean that ryzom runs on one machine.

As for your own thinking the problem would still exist. Even if the ryzom devs said it was costing them between 3k and 10k a month etc people would still say well they made their money for the costs after just x people so they should reduce the ammount we pay etc etc.

The owners are not just doing this to give us a game to play they are doing it to also make money. And truth of the matter is they are operating on a shoe string budget. They have employees etc. Again even if it only cots them a 100 a month to host the server theres still their employees pay checks. If and i sure they do have a 3d art team in the us the starting slary is 40k usd for a 3d artist out of colledge. Thats what they should make most will work for way less just for their portfolio. But the point is they have programers artists admins who keep the servers going likely a on call contracted tech to fix the hardware or a service plan to next day deliver parts/full servers etc. Break all this down by the month and you got minimally a few grand per month not 100...

What they are doing with this idea is working to increase profits so they can do more for ryzom when it comes to content bug squashing etc.


This isn't true. Its been confirmed via multiple sources now. It costs a few hundred a month and Ryzom is ran on one server.

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Tgwaste

#38 Added by Lopyrech 8 years ago Report | Quote[en] 

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They have employees etc. Again even if it only cots them a 100 a month to host the server theres still their employees pay checks. If and i sure they do have a 3d art team in the us the starting slary is 40k usd for a 3d artist out of colledge.
As far as I know, the only full time employee is ulukyn (dev & server manager) ; there might be some people who works as freelance from time to time, but nothing like a full time 3D artist : they are 100% volunteer.

I think you are grossly overestimating how much money ryzom gains : I remember numbers from Tamarea saying there is 300ish logged on at peak on weekday, and 500 at peak on weekend. This mean that, at most, there is 2000 paying account (and that's a very optimistic estimation, imo), which is not a lot of money (barely enough for server + ulukyn wage, basically)

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#39 Added by Placio 8 years ago Report | Quote[en] 

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Seto
The owners are not just doing this to give us a game to play they are doing it to also make money. And truth of the matter is they are operating on a shoe string budget. They have employees etc. Again even if it only cots them a 100 a month to host the server theres still their employees pay checks. If and i sure they do have a 3d art team in the us the starting slary is 40k usd for a 3d artist out of colledge. Thats what they should make most will work for way less just for their portfolio. But the point is they have programers artists admins who keep the servers going likely a on call contracted tech to fix the hardware or a service plan to next day deliver parts/full servers etc. Break all this down by the month and you got minimally a few grand per month not 100...

What they are doing with this idea is working to increase profits so they can do more for ryzom when it comes to content bug squashing etc.

CSRs= Volunteers
Ryzom Forge (where the only new art and other content is coming from)= Volunteers
Event Team= Volunteers
Devs are probably the same former Nervax employess that formed Winchgate- so owners get paid depending on their partnership agreement.

Either way, WG is a private partnership so no point in arguing about their finances since we will never see them :P

I really doubt that allowing formerly subbed players return to f2p will increase profits. Maybe if they split the current sub between a payment for more storage and a payment for max levels/catz then a player low on cash could just pay to have their levels active, but not access their storage for that month- or you could pay just for more storage if you don't want to level another toon. However, just creating a whole new class of character, SuperMinimaster, just because some trolls on Steam have a different definition of f2p seems like a waste.

#40 Added by Akura 8 years ago Report | QuoteMultilingual 

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Arcueid
Ich bin noch immer dafür, Außenposten per Auktion zu verteilen. Jedes Wochenende stehen alle OPs offen, Startgebot 1 Euro. Der höchste Bieter gewinnt. Besitzt also Gilde X einen OP, braucht nur Gilde Y 1 Euro bieten und wenn Gilde X den OP halten will, muß sie auf 2 erhöhen. Jedes Wochenende wird so Geld aus dem Nichts erschaffen...

Alternativ: NPC Rüstungen in Leicht, Medium und Heavy als Cash Shop Item vermieten (!), eine Woche Aen? Für nur 1,99 klar! Mikrotransaktionen heißt das Zauberwort...

PS: Nur bedingt ernst gemeint ;)

1. wäre das PtW was es zu verhindern gilt, 2. wer würde das machen? und 3. wurden die OP´s schon aus dem Spiel genommen die wurden so massiv abgebaut, uninteressant und teuer das man heute schon froh sein muss wenn es überhaupt einen im Monat gibt.
Zum Glück hast du es nicht ernst gemeint und wolltest nur meinen Beitrag ins lächerliche ziehen (vermute ich mal), aber dennoch denke ich, mein Vorschlag ist fair er erspart dir nur Zeit von der du in Ryzom unglaublich viel hast. Und ehrlich gesagt denke ich sogar man müsse den Reiz um die OP´s sogar ganz dringend wieder erhöhen um wieder verschleiß zu haben oder die Gefechte anzufachen. Scheiß auf Riten oder Content, der größte Content in einem Onlinespiel sind: (oh Wunder) die Spieler. Es gilt also Hemmschwellen abzubauen und nicht aufzubauen wie es die meisten antipvpler gerne hätten und auch bisher immer geschehen ist.

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Akura Delray

#41 Added by Rikutatis 8 years ago Report | Quote[en] 

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I like the idea below. B2P + cash shop would be an ideal model, but F2P + microtransactions could work too if it avoids the P2W problem. The problem with that is that it'd require cosmetics to be up on the cash shop. There's not a lot of assets available in that category (mostly stuff used for events), and no full time paid artist available on the team to do that.
Akura
Scheiße alles was ich ausgearbeitet hab ist beim Absenden gelöscht worden =( Daher versuch ich es nochmal kurz zusammenzufassen.

Tolle Idee aber ich fürchte bei der Aktivität werden euch da nur Einnahmen wegbrechen. Gegenvorschlag:

f2p= keine Einschränkungen außer dieser Erfahrungsbonus muss weg.
Premium = 4,99 dafür mit Erfahrungsbonus und den anderen Sachen wie Lagerplatz und was ihr noch so einführen wollt.
Ingameshop = Pakete kaufen um sie gegen super Kristalle einzutauschen. Dies bietet Spielern die Möglichkeit mehr Geld auszugeben als sie es aktuell können ohne dafür übermäßig große Vorteile zu haben. Allerdings bietet dieses System mehr Vorteile die kurz erläutern möchte:

Ein Spieler könnte mit den Superkristallen max. 12k exp bekommen und so etwas schneller die unendlich vielen Skills hochziehen, oder aber er hat genug Geld um sich 5 große Steampakete zu kaufen und die Kristalle hier im Spiel gegen Dapper einzutauschen bei anderen Premiumspieler mit weniger Geld. Auch könntet ihr Aktionen starten wie doppelte Punkte fürs Geld (solltet ihr auch am Anfang tun). Neue Gegenstände (tollen Hacken) die nur für Punkte gekauft werden können, oder auch kleine Änderungen (z.b. ein Skript das erlaubt die Farbe einer Rüsstung zu ändern). Oder den Premiumaccount interessanter Gestallten in dem man monatlich 5 Punkte gutschreibt. Die Möglichkeiten sind Grenzenlos!

Steampakete:
2,99 für 20 Punkte, 4,99 für 50 Punkte, 9,99 für 120 Punkte

Tauschwert:
1 Punkt kostet ein 50er Stapel (999) Superkrisis, 2 Punkte ein 100er Stack, 3 ein 150er Stack, 4 ein 200er Stack und 5 ein 250er Stack.

Das ist kein PaytoWin sondern ein Pay to endlich kann ich einen der unendlichen vielen unnützen Skills schneller Hochziehen und bin wieder motiviert.

Bei mir sehe das so aus:
Ich würde Premium holen für die doppelten EXP 4,99 und mindestens einmal im Monat das große Paket für 9,99 um nicht so viel Buddeln zu müssen um mein Crafting hochzuziehen. Also subjektiv weniger bezahlen um keine Nachteile zu haben aber objektiv mehr ausgeben um mir einen Zeitvorteil zu gönnen.

Last edited by Rikutatis (8 years ago)

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"We are Kami. We are here to be you. We are many as you are of many minds. We are one as you are one in Ma-Duk."

#42 Added by Talkirc 8 years ago Report | Quote[en] 

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i do wish that i could find the old offical forum post from pre-merger where they told us that all servers would be moved to a single 16 core AMD-64 (single opt proc) with 64gb of ram, raid, ect ect.  bottom line, the server is indeed cheep, and if you really want to know a few things about the back story, there's a player/dev that owns a server compay, and offered to host the game totally for free because of it's low requirements on todays hardware.  not sure how long you've been here on atys, but it might surprise you how some forum posts related to things in the past can't be found anymore.

while you may not know my name due to my inactivity in the recent past, i'm a long time player, forums reader and poster, as well as someone that's offered ideas and much more.

sure WG wants to make money, but the sad fact is that in all of ryzom's history, there's been little money invested in anything other then the server it's self, if ryzom shut down tomorrow and the full code was released, i have NO doubt that it would be only a few short days before a totally free (or nearly free) server would be up and running, saddly due to the losses of toons, rp history, levels and items, it wouldn't be quiet the same.

bottom line, saying that ryzom is expensive to host is just laughable.  i'll not continue down this path beyond this point, because it's clear that you will not admit that ryzom's over 12 years old now (13 if you count closed testing and open testing, iirc).

if you really want to see for yourself how simple and easy, visit ryzom core, get a copy of the server and client data, invite some people to help you, set up a server on a home pc, with a poor connection and watch the fun, at our highest peak in years we're only at most 500 strong, tell me how you need so many servers for so few people (btw fps's have 1000's of ppl using them, so that's a really poor arguement)  and OVH hosting of the game only needs say 25 sub's to run, there are single players that have paid for as many as 9 accounts (a full team) but with todays rules and limits 4 or 5 is the max, still that's one person paying 15 to 20% of the server cost all by themselves, and i know of at least 4 that have done this, that's 80 to 90% of the server cost right there... a few more covers that, then the rest is pay for our one paid dev and the company to make a little money with.

ok rant over.

talk

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Remickla (atys)
Other games - they give you a cookie whether you succeed or not, in fact you don't even have to participate. Ryzom takes your cookie, eats it in front of you, and slaps you 2 or 3 times for bringing a cookie in the first place.
What Cookies is about ---- Contact Cookies ---- Cookies at Events ---- For Cookies Diggers and Crafters
Useful Links:
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#43 Added by Imotep 8 years ago Report | Quote[fr] 

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Hello,
Passer Ryzom en F2P,va dejà avoir le mérite d'arreter de nous faire payer ce jeu qui évolu plus, déjà depuis longtemps.Bien avant la fusion ce jeu était sur le declin,en perte de vitesse de maniere croissante.Et,on nous a fait prendre les vessies pour des lanternes,en nous promettant des nouveautés ect.......Cela avait juste pour but de garder les comptes payant des irreductibles de Ryzom.

Les dirigeants ont voulu 2 choses en faisant un fusion :
Le regroupement de peu de joueurs qu'ils restaient sur les serveurs différents.Que cela donne un semblant de communauté plus grande.Une bonne idée car les serveurs etaient peu peuplés dans les autres communautés.
Mais aussi , et surtout d'essayer de nous refaire recommence nos perso à zéro.Pour masquer la nom évolution du jeu.Et ça permettait aussi d'occuper les joueurs avec rien.Uniquement dans l'espoir de les refaire payer depuis leur commencement de leur ou leurs persos,Mais cela consistait en faite à avoir du payer le jeu pendant des années pour tout perdre.Mais beaucoup ont pas apprecié et son parti.Car souvenez vous,ceux qui avaient tout perdu.Là je parle uniquement des lvls .Il était impossible de les récupérer après la fusion.Donc c'était bien une raison plus que financière qu'autre chose,meme si certains crient au et fort aux mensonges.Laissons les crier,cela a au moins le mérite de nous faire rire.....
Le Staff savait très bien que la fusion aurait fait un semblant de renouveau sur Ryzom .Mais un jeu sans développement ni de nouveau contenu,consiste à faire mourir le jeu.Ceci est très vrai aussi pour d'autres domaines de l'Irl .
Mais certains doivent vivre dans un autre monde.....de rèves .A rester dans leurs reves,le jeu est lui plongé dans un profond un cauchemard de lassitude.
Le développement n'a pas été plus présent qu'avant,au contraire meme...Une fois de plus les dirigeants ont rien compris à la gestion d'un jeu et d'une entreprise.

Le F2P sur Ryzom peut apporter plus de monde,c'est certain.Ce n'est pas une mauvaise idée.Le grand risque c'est que,si les contenus payant sont trop peu nombreux ou peu intéressant.Cela ne motivera pas les joueurs à faire chauffer leur CB .Pour motiver les joueurs à payer,il faudra leurs présenter des items,des stuffs,des autorisations et des possibilites plus grandes ,qu'un joueur restant en Free .
Sinon le F2P fera tout simplement cloturer le peu de comptes payants restant sur Ryzom.Car il y aura aucun intéret à payer.Donc en finalité,perdre le peu d'argent que le jeu rapportait avant le F2P.Alors sera une fois de plus une mort annoncée.

Le F2P est bien connu des joueurs,Mais nous avons bien vu que si un jeu meme gratuit n'a pas d'évolution en développent,le jeu fini par disparaitre assez vite .
J'espere juste que pour Ryzom , cela ne sera pas le cas.Sinon au tant cloturer ce jeu de suite.

Beaucoup de jeu en F2P sont sur le marché,et très nombreux sont ceux qui perdurent par leur bons fonctionnents et leur bonne gestion des nouveautés , également une bonne gestion des bans.

Bans qui sont expliquer sur les forum adequat.pas comme sur Ryzom,ou c'est énormément à la tete du client.Une explication de ban sur un forum.Permet au minimum un dialogue avec les joueurs restant et de comprendre la décision .Apres etre d'accord ou pas,chacun à sa façon de percevoir les choses.Mais au moins il y a une communication.

Et surtout des évents.Des évents qui suivent souvent l'actualité des vacances Irl .Et des évents qui, eux suivent l'actualité et la progression du jeu.Chose qu'il y a plus sur Ryzom.

En conclusion pour ma part;
Le F2P pour Ryzom peut le sauver ,peut le faire perdurer,Mais sera pas une solution miracle si rien derrière de concret,et surtout de prévu convenablement......

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Imotep.
Chef De Clan " Les Prophètes De La Lumière "

#44 Added by Arfur 8 years ago Report | Quote[en] 

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Arcueid
I'm still voting for auctioning Ourposts. Each weekend all Ops are free for bidding, starting at $1, highest bidder wins. Let's say guild X got the Op and guild Y invests $1, guild X is forced to pay another to make it $2. Generating money from nothing...

Alternative: Light, medium and heavy NPC armors as rentable (!) cash shop items. One week Aen armor? Just $1.99 and you're in! Microtransactions is the magic word...

PS: Take my suggestions with a *big* grain of salt ;)

Sorry but any kind of Pay to Win is not getting my vote.

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It's bad luck to be superstitious . . .



Palta e decata, nan nec ilne matala.

When one goes on a journey it is not the scenery that changes, but the traveller

#45 Added by Kigan 8 years ago Report | Quote[fr] 

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Imotep
Hello,
... souvenez vous,ceux qui avaient tout perdu.Là je parle uniquement des lvls .Il était impossible de les récupérer après la fusion.

Mon personnage d'après la fusion avait les levels de mon personnage avant la fusion, et je n'ai pas eu à le remonter.

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Author of the novel "La Guerre Sacrée" : https://la-guerre-sacree.fr/
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