IDEAS FOR RYZOM

Actually I said one or two posts ago how the limit changing would mostly affect the grind between 20 and 200. However, the grind from 200 to 250 is still an issue, but probably unaffected by the change due to a lack of higher mobs. In other words: I agree that the lack of higher mobs is a problem, but this proposal is not about that at all. (I'm sorry if that wasn't exactly clear, but my gripe is not only about the higher levels. Especially the lower levels are extremely boring, because there is no challenge.)

The things you mention in the end will still be unchanged by my proposal and kind of lead away from the issue. We should not justify a problem with another problem. We should not say: the grind for more masters is totally fine because everything else in this game is horribly slow and repetitive too.
What we should do is: try to see this game from another perspective and think about the good things this will bring. Just think about all the people that i mentioned earlier, think about newbies as well as old players and veterans that come back that find themselves frustrated because they lost things they had.

We should think about how to keep the players that we draw to this game with things like the Steam implementation.

This change is literally not harming anyone. It will just improve the overall experience of this game by reducing the absolutetely necessary grinds that are needed to start experiencing other aspects of the game, even the aspects you mentioned like PVP, factions, occupations.
You can't do PvP competetively without having at least two masters.
You can't do higher grade occupations without being able to survive dangerous regions.
Crafting and digging would be completely unchanged.
Trekking alone? That's just stupid and I wouldn't even do it with 63 masters.

Even though this thread is about the exp limit and not the lack of 250+ non-boss mobs, I want to say that I agree with you. However, introducing new mobs is not a solution to the 20-200 grind and probably much more effort as raising the exp limit.

just a tip- You don't have to reply to every single reply, it starts to make the thread seem tit-for-tat. If someone expresses an opinion other than the original idea, we already know you mostly disagree :P

And ideas rarely go into effect, so not much use in arguing specifics :P

Irfidel:

Hey, I hear you. Playing difficult games is rewarding in its own way.

But .. such a game will never achieve mass attraction. It's simply not possible. If you need any significant number of people, you have to soften the edges, and leave some hardcore nuggets of pain for those who enjoy that.

Really, this topic here reminds me of an older one, almost to a T : Why I will never pay to play Ryzom. Back then, right like now, older players told the new one that things are exactly as they're supposed to be.

Well, to me it's pointless to watch the same arguments unfold again and again. Good luck keeping Ryzom like it is. I hear a slow death is preferable to changing one iota.

I fail to understand why people think boring and repetitive grind is difficulty. It's not difficult, it's just repetitive and grindy.

Difficult is going to dig supreme mats solo in an area filled with vorax where KPs are patrolling nearby. Or killing jugukoo with only 2 homins. Those are challenges.

Spending countless hours killing cratchas all the way to 210 and after that pulling najabs one by one in a very safe and comfortable environment is not difficult. It's just boring and repetitive.

Exactly. It's not difficult. And even worse: once you've done it for the first time, the next time it will be even easier, giving the same amount of experience over and over again. After your first master you can fight monsters that give 6k from 20-200 with little to no effort. It's just not even rewarding at this point. You hit your melee stanza and return after 1 minute to get your 6k exp and start hitting the next Cratcha. If it would be profitable to TRY to kill higher monsters for more exp, there would be a new sense of reward. If it would be profitable to hunt Kinchers instead of Cratchas, I might try and feel challenged again. THIS is what I am talking about.

We have to make the game more fun in some aspects to keep the new players and also keep the old players. We have to give new players a chance to catch up to the old players to take part in every aspect of the game. And I also think that this change is actually quite urgent. We need it now, where we still profit from incoming Steam users and while the requests for restoring characters are high.

I would love to get a response from the Ryzom staff on that matter.

How difficult would implementation be? Does the Ryzom staff also think about the new players and recurring players?

Riku, it depends. It is up to the player to make level training boring or interesting. That is, btw., true to most ingame activities.

As to Jugukoo, I only managed to kill it with 3 homins (but 2 players). If you know what to do, it is more repetitive than hard after having pulled it to a tp - takes a lot of time as it is tenacious and has loads of hp - some eggs recommended, too. In a team of two, it indeed needs a lot of time, concentration, and skill, I am not sure whether I could manage it, even with a very good partner. But alas, what does that mean, if not that such an excellent player has a lot of routine, knowledge, and dexterity. And how to obtain that if not by patiently training and honing of your abilities, which of course is "repetitive and grindy".

When the server merge happened, I had "only" mastered 21 skills. Note that level training then had already been eased by introducing cats, and obtaining cats by introducing the sadly removed advanced occupations, later. I somewhat regret the introduction of permacats because it made it less necessary to interact.

From the design of the game, it was not intended to make acquisition of levels that easy. Instead, the idea was that players should usually have a few masters so that they had to cooperate in teams, guilds, alliances, and networks of friends. The alleviations of the level burden already highly eased soloplay, or playing with alts. This was, to some extent, a necessity. But further easing might prove destructive.

I have seen games going downhill because the management, driven by the wish to acquire new subscribers, pressed to "make things easier". That was particularly the case in GW1 where I witnessed it myself, but reportedly by friends who played it, in WoW as well. Such easing drove out loads of experienced players, when their frustration and boredom could not at least be compensated by extensions of the games or even a successor game Project, an option which is not available for Ryzom nor is it - at least the latter - desirable.

Unless one is willing to spend tons of hours of training one should accept that mastering of skills is not for free. The option either to do it with low risk at frequently crowded level spots, or seek more risky and entertaining methods, is up to everybody, as well as the decision either to play in guilds, teams, with alts, or a mix of all that.

@Daomei: I agree there's certain players that go off the beaten track to make grinding a more challenging activity for them. Amazons Mysticia for exampe does that a lot. All I'm saying is that most people don't do that, but still think Ryzom is a more difficult game because it has a long and arduous grind.

I just think that's a very artificial difficulty. It doesn't challenge you as a player, it just forces you to spin that hamster's wheel longer and harder.

And I also agree many games, like the ones you mentioned, have been totally dumbing down the experience to make it completely accessible to casuals. Someone once told me nowadays you can reach level cap in WoW in one day. But what kills the challenge in those dumbed down games isn't the ease of leveling, but the ease of the "end game" content as well. Raids in WoW are also very easy, dumbed down and casual from what people keep telling me as they quit the game.

I would be totally fine with a game in which you could reach level cap fast but then have difficult, challenging and deep end game activities that require tactics and coordination. In EVE skill training is passive, you don't need to grind for skills. It happens automatically, you just choose which ones to train first. All you need to grind for is isk, but there are just so many different ways to acquire isk, and some of them aren't even grindy at all. Just requires you to be clever about it. And no one in their right mind would say EVE is an easy or casual game. It's as hard as they come.

D'un côté on a les partisans de l'exp facile, de l'autre ceux de l'exp difficile (ou normale, je dirais).

Actuellement, un joueur abonné est automatiquement mis sous exp facile, sans même avoir le droit de désactiver les catas. Autrement dis, le niveau d'exp facile est devenu un standard, et c'est pour cela qu'il y a une demande de la part des pro-exp facile.

Je ne pense pas que cet exp facile imposé ai un quelconque impact positif sur le jeu (ni même sur le nombre d'abonné parce que je sais bien que le but est là).

Au contraire, il n'a que des impactes négatifs, et c'est pour cela que nous sommes en train d'en discuter ici.

La solution a déjà été proposée : Désactiver ce système, redonner ainsi de l'importance à la production de catas (que ce soit par les OP ou métier ou je ne sais quoi).
De ce fait, l'exp normale redevient le standard, et l'exp facile le bonus.

Et pourquoi pas le métier de ramasseur de bouses à l'étable (très facile d'accès et échangeable au taux de 1 cata le kilo, l'étable va être propre :) ).

Could you please start using English?
I really don't speak french and the translator ist not helping. It just puts out extremely incorrect sentences with little to no meaning.

Can't really expect someone to magically speak in a language they do not know...perhaps just don't comment on the posts you don't understand?Everyone has the right to voice their opinion.