English

well..

If you're a PvPer the rewards are PvP points to buy few items and that's it... for everything else you have to PvE, fight NPCs, kill bosses, OP wars (yes, because we all know the wars are never between PvPers is faction vs faction (involving most players PvE/PvP)) digging mats.

So in the end you do depend on the PvE community, that's why there's a conflict between PvPers vs PvErs because they do get involved in "world PvP" aka OP wars and at the end is about time, numbers and economics.

When I was marauder and I attacked a Kami OP, I didnt see only the enemy guild, faction's PvPers - I saw the whole faction + the other faction.. so by numbers and resources we were defeated.

It's not a fair system when politics come in and Ryzom is more politics than PvP or PvE...

OP wars mix both PvE and PvP because... you guessed it... both are same faction... a lot of guilds dont PvP outside getting supernodes and OP wars and consider themselves PvE... and most of the community as well..

This was always frustrating as a PvPer your hands are tied because outside "3vs3" everything depends on other game mechanics..

Give PvPers a system where they dont depend on others and people will stay...

I guess as a PvPer.. if you do casual PvP and blend in, you're safe but if you do RP and you want more challenges... you get nada..

But I have to say, I like Ryzom a lot... I like how it mixes everything but only on paper, in reality it's a big failure, or not a failure but a big mess..

Sorry for keep repeating some stuff, anyways, it's just a game, if you dont like it you can always leave and that's that.

Cheers,

Exodus

I had already answered this Fryosfreddy. I had said ty for the info.

I see no need for your attack on me. Notice how Rikutatis just laughed and I laughed.

From reading this forum and reading wiki articles, other forums etc. I had a misimpression. I am sorry I had a misimpression. I had already apologized. I see no reason to go listing a) hate filled emotional statement b) hate filled emotional statement.

What exactly is it you feel you are so deprived of that you want that PvPers have?

I don't understand what it is you want Freddy other than trying to sound like an IRS manual. What do you want?

Nehrie

I see the thread is back from the off-topic nonsense its been drowning in. Fine.

Not sure about this. I'm all for making OP battles more accessible for everyone willing to come and fight, but these payments are one of a few money sinks in game. Not that it adds much value to dapper, but still. Also, troll attacks. Entering fee is a barrier (not a big one, yup) against them.

Next. This

doesn't go well with that

The OP mechanics already favor defending side. You need one full team of high-level characters to reach the TH at relevant q200-250 OP, and two teams if you intend to push it at least few levels higher. That's, of course, providing there is no defenders. But usually there is some, and quite often there is a lot of them. Raising the TH will only make it harder, borderline impossible, for a small group to achieve any success in battles.

I personally firmly against it. First, you get a chance to have two battles for the price of one. Why to remove that possibility? Second, we have players from all timezones. Losing an OP because you got outnumbered or outplayed is alright. Losing an OP because the attack has started at 3 a. m. my time is definitely not alright. With second phase in place I at least getting a chance to fight back on my terms.

Also, troll attacks, again. I have seen or heard of fair share of people and guilds being pissed off by another person(s) or guild(s) and deciding intentionally declare on their OP at inappropriate time. Some people think that spending a couple of millions dappers to upset someone is a good deal (see my point about declaration fees). Some people think it's fun. Second phase is a backup against such behaviour. Yes, false declares supposed to be reported to CSR, only that I have yet to hear about any person being actually punished for abusing OP mechanics in that way.

# 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 get +1 from me.

Current PvP opportunities Ryzom

1. Get on uni ask if anyone wants to do friendly PvP in Void or similar area after you already have a partner to duel with.
a) Make sure to ask, "Are you ready?" Put up your little plus sign to show you are ready. +++++
b) Let them hit your first. Wait until you are half dead. "Are you sure you're ready?"
c) "You're sure you're ready?"
d) Kill them.
e) Listen to them complain how they weren't ready.

2. OP war (which there aren't any now)

3. Turn your tags on and wander around hoping to find someone else with their tags on then, "Are you ready?"

4. Wander through ToT killing lowlevels, people in focus gear etc for no pvp points and lots of enemies.

5. Go to Fairhaven and kill one of players who stand in front of stable with tags on.
a) "Oh you were afk?"

Nehrie

They were intended to be funny ... and that would be the end of it except for the fact in previous posts the positions were misrepresented and the misrepresentation, rather than the actual proposals, argued against.  Same pattern.

I don't remeber any "promises" of that type ... if that was accepted knowledge, I don't think we would have seen the mass exodus. The reported next phase was "towers" (search old forums for Jessica Mulligan) which would allow factions to control entire regions ... that was the death knell for server population ... "1st OPs and now this"

And yes, on Ari we maintained two "Community OPs" which were maintained exactly for that purpose. Mats were shared not only with guildless and PvE'ers but also all factions ... The OP we had for 8 years on Ari had always mainted an open share policy.

Our very existence negates that statement. My presence negates that statement.  They have come back, they continue to come back.  I'm not saying they left in 2007 and are only now coming back in 2016, they left and came back in 2010, they came back in 2012. The left and came back in 2016.  Kami / Kara players, Guild Leaders and HOs came back who were PvP oriented before came back and joined our guild (and others) to get away from the drama.

On Ari, the players took it into their own hands and all worked to make the game experience pleasurable for all concerned.  Every player's choice was respected and those that chose not to honor those choices were dealt with by the player base.

Don't you think that it is quite significant that the Ranger faction is easily the fastest growing faction on the server.

First, that's another strawman being thrown up as an easy target.   PvP practioners are a valuable part of the community ... but so is **every** other player.  I have never suggested anything that would discourage a PvP player ... unless you consider PvE players having access to the same opportunities as PvP players to be discouraging ... a position, you must admit, many take.  I support any improvement on PvP as long as:

a) It's not to the detriment of other players.
b) Development time be shared among interests of the entire player base

What I object to is the development of PvP play to the exclusion of all else.


"Proposal - A lengthy Consideration of Fyros Status as a Fyros Toon:"

The following proposals should be implemented to make things better for the Fyros player:

<if it's not obvious, please put toungue in cheek now>

1.  Since we are "born of fire", we should be immune to fire spells
2.  Since water is scarce ... we should be able to drink Stimulating Water and double our abilities for an hour
3.  Because we have all those chasms, we should have the ability to leap over them.

What number do I get to before the other races have a legitimate beef ?

Since Fyros players do not pay a higher subscription fee, why should they receive benefits that other races don't have access to ?  Ryzom is unique in that there are no advantages to being of any race.  The same can not be said of PvE and PvP.  This talk about "difficulty" ... frankly I don't see it.  We already have a method of earning PvP points, so why not PvK points ?.  We have had kitin invasions since beta days.

So no, if PvP players want to have a wish list of 100 items, I have no issue with that at all (subject to above two qualifications)... but it seems when the rest of us have list of 2 ... there's a list of excuses from some PvP proponents as to why that should not be so,  even when .... no, better said, especially when, its something that they already have.

Not that like myself, there aren't PvP players who are also fine with PvE players getting their fair share... and I think thay are in the majority, just less active on the forums

5.  As this remains the only way to get such, or similar,  items, I have been tempted to do the same myself.  Provide a legitimate alternative and this becomes a non issue.

6.  See above :)

How can one respond to that ?  You complain about the length but despite the detail provided, you don't understand.  So what am i supposed to do ?   Explain in more detail so you can complain again ?

it's been made clear.  Others have responded, some agree some don't but most seem to understand the concepts.

As far as attacking you, for "responding in kind"... as long as you leave out the profanity and racial epithets, I will respond in kind here.

stop trolling Freddy

ROFL jiminy crickets what does it take to get you to say, "I want a new dress?" or "I want this or that."

You want to contnually attack me as being an unintelligent person. I do not appreciate that.

Rik could you rename the thread to a lengthy battle of words between freddy and nehriey!! ̿' ̿'\̵͇̿̿\з=(◕_◕)=ε/̵͇̿̿/'̿'̿ ̿

rofl :)))

For starters the GMs could actually take away the farmed items of those caught cheating and ban them for a long time. Its ridiculous that people were allowed to keep them.

I understand the concerns about "PvP farming", but I can't agree to the cheating accusations.

The problem clearly is that while one cannot negotiate and arrange fights with a vorax or a kincher, that is well possible with player character counterparts.

But, without negotiating the terms of combat, and being in agreement about, PvP is widely impossible.

The core of PvP, as I understood and learnt from friends enthusiastic about, is to explore all the variants and intricacies of a given combat system, to invent ever new methods to attack and defend, to change weapons and armor, and, most important of all, to hone reactions towards mastery in all situations.

This is, like every learning, only possible through constant training, and even training rota, until the reactions, say recharging and firing enchants during combat, changing enchants from attack (e.g. affliction) to healing, and so on, come automatically, without thinking about, like an instinct. This kind of mastery is what distinguishes experts from newcomers, even with inferior weaponry and armor, and secures their superiority against larger numbers. It also requires to emulate several models and variants of attack and defence, under negotiated combat situations. And all of them have to be experienced and trained repeatedly until feeling natural.

It seems unnatural to me to punish and discourage training routine. And it is merely impossible to tell training routine from "farming" of PvP points.

Mind that level grind is rewarded with experience, and, if the trainee is not dumb, with the loot of the training victims useful for crafting or in trade (Diwu and me just earned several million dappers from our horncher bounty which somebody chose to buy in resale :)). PvP training at least yields PvP points in case that the wierd fame rules apply, else it "earns" nothing than equipment attrition.

Earning of PvP rewards should be balanced in all aspects. It should be worth while the loss off armor, weapons, ammo, and sometimes mektoubs, but should not be a source of uber stuff inviting to abuse. This balance is hard to achieve but should be possible. Threatening "PvP farmers" will only lead to less, not more PvP, in my opinion.

Errr.. when someone sits there killing an alt over and over again well thats farming. If someone repetitively kills someone else whilst they don't attack back, then they swap turns.. well thats farming also. Its not hard to tell. Then again considering you think a character in refugee gear not moving from a boss spawn for a solid week might just be curious about the surrounding fauna this doesn't surprise me at all. Especially when the farming alt decides to start selling off all the farmed gear on uni chat for dappers.. well then its pretty obvious isn't it?

PvP point farming only leads to less PvP not more because if you take away the reward system of doing something then less people will do it. Would have thought that would be pretty obvious as well.

Well, I recommend not to bring up the camping issue again and again. It will lead to pointless polemics, and in the end, you'll get hurt. And while I am catty and evil enough to enjoy polemics, I hate when people I like get hurt. So let us agree to disagree about.

As to PvP farming as you describe it, yes, that is not good, and not healthy. But how do you tell legitimate combat training, also with uneven chances, testing the options left in desperate situations, from unfair farming out of greed for points only? Do you want every PvP practitioner being overheard and spied upon?

Much more, there are those many borderline situations. When somebody is training again and again, even with an alt, or a friend, or the alt of a friend, she may try to achieve perfection, but also may combine it with the usefulness of getting some reward.

I agree that ethics and responsibility should be encouraged and enforced by community consensus. That may mean that one frowns upon unfair techniques and spread the word of disapproval of such practice. But in my opinion, that is the only possibility. Setting up a bureaucratic ruleset, and enforcing it by strict supervision, will discourage everybody, even those who have nothing unfair in mind.