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#91 Added by Daomei 9 years ago [en] 

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It is a really hard inconvenience to force dedicated crafters who are roleplayers as well to lower all their stats to -10. It is not about the hardship to bring it back to, say, e.g. all +50 or some higher, though this is indeed more work than bringing all stats to -100. In fact, I have probably done more fame grind than most of the marauder players, by getting the "I am a Legend" achievement (max tribe fames) so this is not the point.

The point rather is that for any dedicated kamist, karavan, national, ranger, it is disruptive for their roleplay, and thus prohibitive. And it would be introduced after the fact of having decided to such a way of playing. There is nothing a player cannot get before becoming marauder (all the rites may be done before), and the constraints are well known and intensely discussed. So introducing a crafting plan others cannot get would be plain unfair.

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Daomei die Streunerin - religionsneutral, zivilisationsneutral, gildenneutral

#92 Added by Virg 9 years ago [en] 

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Daomei we face exactly the same issue when we want to do any rite. You are looking at this completely one sided.

If we don't want to raise our fames guess what? We don't get any rites.
If you don't want to lower your fames guess what? You don't get 1 or 2 generic plans.

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#93 Added by Daomei 9 years ago [en] 

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You knew about the rites before becoming a marauder. You would have been able to do them. Yet no marauder crafter is denied any plan, so why should others be? No marauder is denied access to any welcomer within the 67 fame constraint. Why should others be?

It is what I said, you are asking for privileges. Even more, I consider that attitude petty and mean. There is no advantage for marauders in denying such a plan to other crafters. It is just harassment of the other players.

Last edited by Daomei (9 years ago)

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Daomei die Streunerin - religionsneutral, zivilisationsneutral, gildenneutral

#94 Added by Virg 9 years ago [en] 

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You honestly think any marauder would teach a homin who has 67 fame in all he hates a craft plan? and you call youself a roleplayer? lel

Daomei marauders are entirely different to any other civilisation. To assume they are the same (which is what your point is based upon) is just idiocy. Here lets take a look at Marauders Vs Normal Civs:
1) Our guards are completely opposite to normal civ guards. Matis guards won't attack Fyros, Zorai, Tryker, Kami blah blah etc etc. Our guards will attack anyone not marauder.
2) Our merchants follow the same trait
3) Our skill trainers follow the same trait.
4) Every single other marauder alive except our sage who inducts marauders.. guess what? they follow the same trait.

So why should our camp welcomer be any different? Well I am saying for the purpose of new players in the game who want to know more.. I am more than willing to compromise and allow neutrals of 0 fame. But to expect you rocking up to our camp with +50 in all fames and be taught something? Sheer lunacy.

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#95 Added by Cramer 9 years ago [en] 

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+1

#96 Added by Bones 9 years ago Multilingual 

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For me I agree that Ranger needs much work. I think we should start another thread to adress that as well so the short comings of other faction does not interfere with QOL issure of Marauder, which is what this thread is about.
Now, I can agree that 0 fame is fine to do any gen plans, either way -10 or 0 is not much work to get back to +50. When I went ranger I was +100 Kami +100 Zorai and I managed to get to +50 in all under two full days working fame.
What would like to see is for all of us to remaine polite and attempt a compromise
I would think views here would be seen as OOC to address game problems, not how we see Marauders deserving support.
I don't see it hurting any other faction if QOL issues are addressed. I think the camp has been around long enough that we could realistically have put in place our own system by now but yes, this must be brought in with some type of Lore/Event. Thank you all for thie discussion, I feel if we can make a fair compromise, we can all benefit and have better time.

#97 Added by Bones 9 years ago Multilingual 

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+1 if we can find a fair compromise because improvements here lead to improvements everywhere.

#98 Added by Placio 9 years ago [en] 

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This thread was not started to discuss Marauder quality of life, it was started because I stated that investing more time in the marauder palyable faction will not add anything to the game/community as a whole, and even if marauders get everything on their wishlist that faction will still suffer from the innate isolation which it creates. Comparing and contrasting it to other factions does seem to be a legitimate way to judge its value or future use.

#99 Added by Bones 9 years ago Multilingual 

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So investing more time in the marauder faction is not addressing QOL? That's what fixing this does and hopefully brings back some other players that left. I'm not trying to attack any faction, I just want to see people come back. They didn't leave because fame is too hard. They got tired of doing things with alts. Tired of things that were said would happen that did not. I know they are working hard on it and I appreciate the work the DEVS are doing. I honestly think there is still value in the Marauder faction, we are still gaining new players same as everyone else.
I admit that I would not leave if the faction disapeared but I would be highly disappointed but I am only 1 out of many.

#100 Added by Virg 9 years ago [en] 

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No it was started to discuss the marauder organisation and all it encompasses.. you did read why riku started this right?

I completely disagree with you on the fact if my wish list was completed we would suffer from isolation. Attacking a city is a great way to RP and PVP with others and brings people together- an experience shared by marauders and other players. All the previous city attacks I have run I have had a great time with friends on both sides of the fighting- an occupation encompassing this would be a fantastic addition to the marauder faction and reduce its isolation.

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#101 Added by Daomei 9 years ago [en] 

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Still I do not see how any marauder gets hurt when non marauders take welcomer missions. And while some marauder players may heed their superiority complex that they are so much better and different from all others, the same may go for tribes detesting adverse peoples or homins of opposite reputation.

Why should it hurt marauders when their welcomer gives missions to complete adversaries, missions, noteworthy, which would be in favor of the marauders (roleplaywise), no less than a tribe or nation welcomer, scout, patroller etc. offers missions in favor of their faction - that is why the mission taker earns reputation.

Generally, marauders are not against homins, but against their attitude expressed in their civ and cult reputation. Welcomers, patrollers, journeymen etc. are the ones bridging that gap, in a ways more RP conforming way than clicking down fame. E.g. an Ancient Dryads scout gives missions to Matis though matis fame at that tribe is -100.

And generic weapons given by welcomers are inside this realm. There is no reason to take them out of general availability except some mischievous and petty attitude of people to whom crafting has no meaning or who take fun of harming others.

Edited 2 times | Last edited by Daomei (9 years ago)

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Daomei die Streunerin - religionsneutral, zivilisationsneutral, gildenneutral

#102 Added by Virg 9 years ago [en] 

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Superiority complex? Daomei you went marauder?? :O Welcome to the organisation! But please.. go back to wherever you came from. We don't have room for the prattling and gassing that you actually think is roleplay.

I assume you didn't read my post so will just re-iterate a major point:
A marauder guard will attack anyone not marauder.
A non-marauder guard will only attack those who are -50 fame or below.

Marauders treat outsiders differently than any other civ. We are different. Do you understand this?

All I want is a marauder city welcomer that fits with our camp. Ideally this would speak to marauders only. I am happy to compromise and allow 0 fame in all so new players can get a taste of marauder life and if players so chose, they can drop their fames down and get the plans.

You have +50 fame in all. This is extremely easy to get and hardly a hassle for you. After all you are an incredible fame grinder who has done so many tribe fames!! It must be worth the time for such an esteemed crafter!

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#103 Added by Virg 9 years ago [en] 

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Perhaps I have used too many words for you again.. here:

Marauders, in every single way, are completely different from the group collective of: trykers, fyros, matis and zorai.

Given this massive difference.. why do you think our camp welcomer should be exactly the same as them? It is completely illogical and makes no sense whatsoever.

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#104 Added by Daomei 9 years ago [de] 

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Don't get more bossy and impolite than you usually behave, Virg. I have read what you wrote, and see no connection to the welcomer's behavior, and much less a point in monopolizing generic weapons. There, you are already inconsequential by offering a -10 threshold which does not exist in the camp merchants either. So, when dealing differently with the welcomer, why not like with other welcomers? I did not read a single rational argument for.

What is wrong with a welcomer, and possibly even a few marauder mission NPC in every high level region of the continents, offering marauder missions with low or no fame threshold? It would add athmosphere, as a homin interested in doing marauder missions may be, or become interested in the faction altogether.

Granted, one ought not make it too easy for those above fame -1. For example, one could place two guards or so close to the welcomer who react similar to tribe or city guards (which attack 50 points below their equilibrium while marauders would do 40 above their equilibrium, but so what. Their attack would attract guards from inside the camp, thus obtaining the mission when not below 0 would be tricky (and funny). Anyway, the welcomer would give it.

The idea of marauder scouts or journeymen as mission givers on the continents would also project marauder presence, and add athmosphere and variety instead of alienating the ones and spoiling the others. I would even advocate marauder hawkers, at least one in every surface 200 and 250 region. To make it not too easy, they could take, say, 5% of the mat given as a royalty for their fencing job. That would make life easier for marauder harvesters.

Edited 4 times | Last edited by Daomei (9 years ago) | Reason: typo

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Daomei die Streunerin - religionsneutral, zivilisationsneutral, gildenneutral

#105 Added by Virg 9 years ago [en] 

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Then perhaps be polite yourself and you may find others react more nicely to your words.. also try not to be such a hypocrite all the time- that might help as well.

I have already said I will be happy with 0. It makes sense.

A single rational arguement? The welcomer.. is a marauder welcomer. As such he should behave like other marauders. Marauders do not behave tryker/matis/fyros/zorai. Until you understand this you won't understand my point. Do you understand this? If not we should stop discussing this.

'A marauder offering missions to non-marauders with no fame threshold'
You display your ignorance of marauder RP once again. Marauders can be split into 2 types: those left behind during the swarming or those who joined after the swarming. Read up on them a bit.
You clearly do not understand the old marauders if you think any would ask for help of those that left them behind and also the new marauders who are either criminals or freedom fighters.

Marauder hawkers however is a good idea.

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