IDEAS FOR RYZOM

It still isn't fair, though, Virg.  I think Daomei made a fair point.  And then there could a cut off point after the gen plan is given that requires the homine to come back with her fame low enough to continue with the missions.

See what I did there? it is a called compromise :P

I think 0 in all fames is a compromise. I also really think marauders are completely unique in their fames so you can't compare all camp welcomers. A marauder camp welcomer accepting 67 fame is just wrong, no matter how you try to spin it.

Camp welcomers are made to give a feel of the faction/organisation for new players. New players don't have 67 fame. 0 fame is more than fair.

EDIT: Comprimise is letting neutrals do it in the first place. Players who have 67 fame with governments that we hate etc. Do you really think a marauder would willingly teach them to craft a weapon that will most likely be used against them??

It is a really hard inconvenience to force dedicated crafters who are roleplayers as well to lower all their stats to -10. It is not about the hardship to bring it back to, say, e.g. all +50 or some higher, though this is indeed more work than bringing all stats to -100. In fact, I have probably done more fame grind than most of the marauder players, by getting the "I am a Legend" achievement (max tribe fames) so this is not the point.

The point rather is that for any dedicated kamist, karavan, national, ranger, it is disruptive for their roleplay, and thus prohibitive. And it would be introduced after the fact of having decided to such a way of playing. There is nothing a player cannot get before becoming marauder (all the rites may be done before), and the constraints are well known and intensely discussed. So introducing a crafting plan others cannot get would be plain unfair.

Daomei we face exactly the same issue when we want to do any rite. You are looking at this completely one sided.

If we don't want to raise our fames guess what? We don't get any rites.
If you don't want to lower your fames guess what? You don't get 1 or 2 generic plans.

You knew about the rites before becoming a marauder. You would have been able to do them. Yet no marauder crafter is denied any plan, so why should others be? No marauder is denied access to any welcomer within the 67 fame constraint. Why should others be?

It is what I said, you are asking for privileges. Even more, I consider that attitude petty and mean. There is no advantage for marauders in denying such a plan to other crafters. It is just harassment of the other players.

You honestly think any marauder would teach a homin who has 67 fame in all he hates a craft plan? and you call youself a roleplayer? lel

Daomei marauders are entirely different to any other civilisation. To assume they are the same (which is what your point is based upon) is just idiocy. Here lets take a look at Marauders Vs Normal Civs:
1) Our guards are completely opposite to normal civ guards. Matis guards won't attack Fyros, Zorai, Tryker, Kami blah blah etc etc. Our guards will attack anyone not marauder.
2) Our merchants follow the same trait
3) Our skill trainers follow the same trait.
4) Every single other marauder alive except our sage who inducts marauders.. guess what? they follow the same trait.

So why should our camp welcomer be any different? Well I am saying for the purpose of new players in the game who want to know more.. I am more than willing to compromise and allow neutrals of 0 fame. But to expect you rocking up to our camp with +50 in all fames and be taught something? Sheer lunacy.

+1

For me I agree that Ranger needs much work. I think we should start another thread to adress that as well so the short comings of other faction does not interfere with QOL issure of Marauder, which is what this thread is about.
Now, I can agree that 0 fame is fine to do any gen plans, either way -10 or 0 is not much work to get back to +50. When I went ranger I was +100 Kami +100 Zorai and I managed to get to +50 in all under two full days working fame.
What would like to see is for all of us to remaine polite and attempt a compromise
I would think views here would be seen as OOC to address game problems, not how we see Marauders deserving support.
I don't see it hurting any other faction if QOL issues are addressed. I think the camp has been around long enough that we could realistically have put in place our own system by now but yes, this must be brought in with some type of Lore/Event. Thank you all for thie discussion, I feel if we can make a fair compromise, we can all benefit and have better time.

+1 if we can find a fair compromise because improvements here lead to improvements everywhere.

This thread was not started to discuss Marauder quality of life, it was started because I stated that investing more time in the marauder palyable faction will not add anything to the game/community as a whole, and even if marauders get everything on their wishlist that faction will still suffer from the innate isolation which it creates. Comparing and contrasting it to other factions does seem to be a legitimate way to judge its value or future use.

So investing more time in the marauder faction is not addressing QOL? That's what fixing this does and hopefully brings back some other players that left. I'm not trying to attack any faction, I just want to see people come back. They didn't leave because fame is too hard. They got tired of doing things with alts. Tired of things that were said would happen that did not. I know they are working hard on it and I appreciate the work the DEVS are doing. I honestly think there is still value in the Marauder faction, we are still gaining new players same as everyone else.
I admit that I would not leave if the faction disapeared but I would be highly disappointed but I am only 1 out of many.

No it was started to discuss the marauder organisation and all it encompasses.. you did read why riku started this right?

I completely disagree with you on the fact if my wish list was completed we would suffer from isolation. Attacking a city is a great way to RP and PVP with others and brings people together- an experience shared by marauders and other players. All the previous city attacks I have run I have had a great time with friends on both sides of the fighting- an occupation encompassing this would be a fantastic addition to the marauder faction and reduce its isolation.

Still I do not see how any marauder gets hurt when non marauders take welcomer missions. And while some marauder players may heed their superiority complex that they are so much better and different from all others, the same may go for tribes detesting adverse peoples or homins of opposite reputation.

Why should it hurt marauders when their welcomer gives missions to complete adversaries, missions, noteworthy, which would be in favor of the marauders (roleplaywise), no less than a tribe or nation welcomer, scout, patroller etc. offers missions in favor of their faction - that is why the mission taker earns reputation.

Generally, marauders are not against homins, but against their attitude expressed in their civ and cult reputation. Welcomers, patrollers, journeymen etc. are the ones bridging that gap, in a ways more RP conforming way than clicking down fame. E.g. an Ancient Dryads scout gives missions to Matis though matis fame at that tribe is -100.

And generic weapons given by welcomers are inside this realm. There is no reason to take them out of general availability except some mischievous and petty attitude of people to whom crafting has no meaning or who take fun of harming others.

Superiority complex? Daomei you went marauder?? :O Welcome to the organisation! But please.. go back to wherever you came from. We don't have room for the prattling and gassing that you actually think is roleplay.

I assume you didn't read my post so will just re-iterate a major point:
A marauder guard will attack anyone not marauder.
A non-marauder guard will only attack those who are -50 fame or below.

Marauders treat outsiders differently than any other civ. We are different. Do you understand this?

All I want is a marauder city welcomer that fits with our camp. Ideally this would speak to marauders only. I am happy to compromise and allow 0 fame in all so new players can get a taste of marauder life and if players so chose, they can drop their fames down and get the plans.

You have +50 fame in all. This is extremely easy to get and hardly a hassle for you. After all you are an incredible fame grinder who has done so many tribe fames!! It must be worth the time for such an esteemed crafter!

Perhaps I have used too many words for you again.. here:

Marauders, in every single way, are completely different from the group collective of: trykers, fyros, matis and zorai.

Given this massive difference.. why do you think our camp welcomer should be exactly the same as them? It is completely illogical and makes no sense whatsoever.