IDEAS FOR RYZOM

Just as a remark and response to Lacuna: I do not consider our Atys nations modern nation states. The empire resembles to some extent antique Greek/Roman statehood (without slavery as the base), the kingdom Italian renaissance kingdoms, the federation Swiss republic, and the theocracy .. well, pick any theocracy, substracting its inherent barbary. All those comparisons, of course, are ideal typical in the sense of Max Weber. The marauders of the ancient lands may resemble the Golden Horde or the mongols of the 13th century, to some extent, yet their program of world dominance and extermination of any dissent reminds me to something worse no "savages" ever had. So let us bury half-bred analogies.

In fact, the four nations are able to coexist, so are the two cults, despite their quarrels. The clans of the marauders do not seem to be able to more than a state of frozen war with the rest of hominity so far. OOC spoken, we may agree that the marauders will never gain their endsieg which would end the world of Atys we know ;). Yet I even fail to see a base for their recognition as a nation.

They may be a faction, "superior" to rangers and Trytonists under some respect, I have no problem with that. But I want more precise analyses what hinders the marauders to flourish and should be implemented, not just a list of complaints and wishes.

Etre maraudeur ne fait pas se désabonner.

Il est vrai que l'on n'a pas accès à tout mais avant de le devenir, je savais à quoi m'attendre. Pourquoi alors? Moi qui ai été neutre pendant des années, puis avais rejoint la faction kara quelques temps. Parce que une fois avoir fait le tour du jeu, j'aspirais à un jeu moins routinier. Et je ne suis pas déçue :p
Il faut un peu plus se torturer la cervelle pour tirer son épingle du jeu ..

D'un autre côté,je ne me suis pas sentie flouée du reste du jeu , ayant à cette époque, 3 comptes payant. Je pensais naïvement pouvoir jouer mes autres personnages quand j'aurais envie de revenir à un jeu plus 'normal'. Malheureusement, il semblerait que même avec 15 personnages potentiels, il est mal vu de jouer différentes factions :(

Tout ça, pour dire que si j'ai désabonné des comptes, ce n'est pas à cause de la faction maraudeur mal finalisée.

Cela vaut pour moi, je ne parle pas des gens qui sont partis du jeu après avoir été maraud, mais dire qu'ils sont partis à cause de leur passage chez les marauds,je pense que c'est faux..certainement d'autres raisons de vie, car redevenir kara ou kami ou même neutre, ce n'est pas une si grosse difficulté,juste un peu de temps à y passer. Mais au fond, jouer à ryzom, n'est ce pas une façon de passer du temps?

Lacuna: Much interesting as is what you are telling, my perspective is rather that of the peoples of the middle kingdom and their formation of a multiethnic statehood than western primitive and totalitarian cults like "christian civilization". And I also hold some reserves against much lauded european enlightenment, the source of exterminatory "scientific" racism, and the malthusian concept of superfluous, dispensable humans, the cradle of nazi ideology. So you are ascribing a stance to me I do not hold and never will.

While your description of the marauder civilization is interesting, I ask myself how far it really fits the existing marauders, both in the ancient lands, and their outposts in the new territories. As far as I know and learnt, the marauders split from the rest of hominkind only short time ago (more or less one century now, to be exact). The founding fathers of the marauders, some of them probably still alive, stemmed from four different forms of statehood, which they all despised due to their defeat and collapse in the Kitin Wars 2481-84. To my knowledge, they collected the remains of hominity, united them with a lot of force, and formed their community. It became nomadic for the simple reason that they had to run and hide, later to hit and run, in face of the kitin danger. Therefore it is fairly understandable that their structure is based on clans, and has strength and readiness to fight as main principles.

I fail to see that those principles of the marauder community fit very well in the picture of tribal cultures you are describing. Granted I am not so deep in south american history and ethnology, but your analogies seem shaky to me.

The four peoples of the new territories just restored the cultures destroyed in the disaster of the twentyfoureighties, those are traditional rather than imagined communities, with their institutions, principles, and customs.

I fail to see that the marauders fit into that. They have a strange concept of "revenge" for that the nations, and they themselves alike, were not strong enough to win against the kitins, so that many homins either perished or were dispersed and left behind.

This desire for revenge is somewhat pathetic and ridiculous, why not punishing everybody for bad weather? But so what. Then yes, the want to "take over", to force all of hominity under their violent tyranny, and suppress and destroy their institutions, traditions, and cults (also their cities and house? I am not sure). I fail to see analogies in tribal cultures I saw and read about. China, for example, was two times forcefully "overtaken" by nomadic tribal people, the Mongols during the Yuan dynasty, and the Manzhou in the last centuries of the empire til the revolution of 1911. Those tribal rulers were not overly gentle during their takeover to say the least, but in fact, they neither destroyed the institutions nor suppressed the religions.

The program of the marauders seem to resemble much more ideologically driven movements than anything on an ethnic or national base. The matis and fyros may have their quarrels unfriendly neighbours have, but they always have a base to communicate, and no desire to overthrow the political system of their counterpart. As said, the nationhood would require less "universal", if not totalitarian claims which much resemble to those of e.g. christian crusaders aiming to either convert or kill every heathen.

And for the marauders being a people, I also have some doubts. This may be, to some extent, true for the marauders in the ancient lands, who, under the pressure of the kitins, found a viable way for survival, and even development, in their nomadic, mobile organization. The marauder proselytes from the new territories stem from more or less peaceful societies who found a comfortable way to restore more or less the pre swarm civilizations which well fit into the geopolitical and ethnic conditions of the regions where they are dwelling. Therefore, the status of marauders in the new territories is fundamentally different from their counterparts in the ancient lands, they are outcasts or dropouts in an environment which is in no way yearning to kill them all. Yet, I do not want or like to deny them to be a people. I consider them rather a faction, such as Karavan or Kami, with the differences described above.