How to fix the game (brainstorming) - IDEAS FOR RYZOM

#33 Added by Yenno 9 years ago [fr]

It looks like Daomei only wanted to oppose with an argument that would seem 'realistic' or 'logic' but in fact it's completely wrong.

I didn't want to respond at first... But, I couldn't let such thing to be seen without clarification. Okies, I approved the idea 'No fun in leveling' because I do have enough experience in leveling and I spent most of my gaming-experience (which lasts long) doing that. But, in the other hand, how much does Daomei spend in PvPing... Did she ever try it? Well... Nevermind... I guess, I/we know... :)

Daomei (atys)

I for my part could equally rant about PvP,boring, always the same, leading to nothing than waste of good equipment, and is most times not a victory of the better fighter than of the faster box, the stronger weapon or better armor, or even the larger number, and often leads to dissent and resentment, sometimes even hate.

Boring: How could it be? Explain... Wow!
The same: *Shocked again* PvP is dynamic and always change... You don't know what PvP jewels your enemie is wearing, the way your enemie would react or which 'Auras' would he use...
Leading to nothing: Actually it leads you to everything *smiles*. PvP is very competitive and teach you alot of things... It's much more than killing a Programmed-Mob that always acts/behaves the same way.
Waste of good equipment: Well, wahh! What? If you don't use your best equipements in PvP then, where would you use them? On a Great Cuttler? You don't need any good equipements when it comes to PvE.
After that, I didn't really get much your next arguments... They didn't make sens to me, you used a lot of words just to fit the place... 'dissent', 'resentment', 'hate'... Either you have changed the topic or I am not really getting it, because PvP is very far away from that.

If you have mastered all your skills, got all NPC armors yet you still dying easly against a Homin, and you couldn't protect yourself in PvP regions... That doesn't make much sens even in RP...

If you can not PvP then don't judge it.
If you do not like PvP then try it.

(*Nods* Not really its place but it could fit, I couldn't resist:)

Edited 2 times | Last edited by Yenno (9 years ago)

#34 Added by Rook 9 years ago [en]

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@Yenno I do believe The PvP thing was not a real argument. More like a "Don't say something I like is not enjoyable, because I can tell you the same for something you like." kind of argument.
Even though what she said about PvP is not correct because she didn't get into it anyway.

I also believe that this discussion is getting pointless.

As every "fixing" discussion I've ever seen so far.
Because it confronts 2 completely different points of view which, even by discussing a lot, can hardly reach an agreement.

Apparently, players that are happy with the game will be happy forever since it won't change for us little unhappy players; And sadly enough we will just leave unhappy - as every other unhappy player that left before and will leave after us.

#35 Added by Bitttymacod 9 years ago [en]

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The point of any "fixing" thread, in my opinion, should not be "this needs to be fixed" (implied by someone else), but "this change" should be implemented because it doesn't break anything and it makes (this aspect) better.

The original post here proposed a poorly described set of changes to the protective and healing auras and merely said the changes would make the game "more dynamic", without specifying how the change would do so, nor how the impact on the current use of those stanzas would be mitigated. Naturally it met resistance.

In the meantime, you are correct that the point of the discussion wandered. The question then becomes: What are the "two completely different points of view"? Is if PvP vs. PvE? (I don't think so.) Is it "rapid action fighting"? What is it?

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Remembering Tyneetryk
Phaedreas Tears - 15 years old and first(*) of true neutral guilds in Atys.
(*) This statement is contested, but we are certainly the longest lasting.
<clowns | me & you | jokers>

#36 Added by Rook 9 years ago [en]

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@Bitty I was thinking of an opposition between players comparing Ryzom with other MMORPGs (gameplay wise) which i believe are me, Klrs, Mjollren... vs people playing the game as it is without really questioning gameplay.

I do agree on your point of proposing a real change to be applied or not with stats and values and whatever you need - however I will quote Mjollren here ''I am not a game designer or architect. There is a reason why those actually have a job with its own title, and get paid significant money for it. To come and tell me unironically that I should do this job for free (even if I were qualified for it) is just crass.''

You know, I love this game. I unsubscribed but I still can't let go of this universe and it's community. And I dream of the day I'll be able to play a game while playing the game. Because this is not a game. It's literally just another universe. Quite the glitched one though, but I hope y'all get what I am trying to say.

#37 Added by Daomei 9 years ago Multilingual

Multilingual | [English]

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To make two things clear:
1. My point was not to slander PvP much less the players enjoying it. As Rook understood correctly, I reverted the assertion that digging were boring.

To elaborate that further, any statement like "Digging [leveling, PvP, whatever] is boring" is, by its nature, a universal proposition, a statement claiming universal validity. Such a statement, according to the laws of propositional logic, can be disproven by a single contradicting instance. If the statement "Daomei considers digging not boring" is true, the proposition "Digging is boring" is falsified and disproven.

2. The rather emotional contradiction especially by Yenno how I perceive PvP is funny. Indeed I practised PvP, in other games, and even in Ryzom, all flavors (Duel, Arena, nvn team fight) except ganking, to the extent to reach a conclusion about how I feel about. PvP is not an arcane science, btw., it can be studied, observed etc. even without practising it. My attitude stems from the fact that I favor cooperation over competition, like win-win situations, and despise the winner takes it all even (and particularly) in case I am the winner.

And it seems ridiculous to me to assume that somebody who has all combat skills at hand at master level, does not know about how to fight, to prepare stanzas, and to react fast under changing conditions. I am seldom sitting at the stables and chatting, and not only homins require versatile reactions. Of course I could fare above average in PvP once I would decide to practise it. If I would not achieve outstanding excellence then because that requires enthusiasm and dedication I lack, and constant training I am not willing to undergo. Denying that I am able to validly judge that PvP is boring to me is as arrogant as ignorant. It is similar as if I would deny someone's ability to appraise his boredom during digging only because he has not mastered all 5 ecos.

Last edited by Daomei (9 years ago)

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Daomei die Streunerin - religionsneutral, zivilisationsneutral, gildenneutral