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The thing that confuses me is this idea that the devs created this clause as an 'attack' or something against 1 or 2 particular guilds. That seems pretty ridiculous to me.

They stated that the marauders will have the same rules the other factions have had for years and years. No matter what your opinion on organization vs faction is, it is a simple idea. (IMO Maru is defined as a faction simply because you can't be karavan/maruader or kami/marauder at the same time.)

If you want to look at the RP, it fits the Maru ideal doesn't it? That whole 'all the other factions/civilizations are fools!' mentality does conflict with being in a guild with all those fools. :P (Insert Maru roar here)

I can understand newer players up in arms with the guild restrictions and such, but that is how it has always been. Marauder, being an 'official' new faction, just took a little longer to implement (due to the fame issues Placio quoted, it seems.) The rule is not new, guys and gals. (Yes I know Marauder has been around since the beginning but not as an official faction like it is now.)

It isn't like they are telling us who to be friends with or not (and who to hang out with). I got friends across all factions/civs/languages that I hang out with all the time!
But I wouldn't feel right if a karavan or marauder were in my guild, as much of a friend as they are to me.

if they wanna turn it in a faction then easy:
Give em missions, Silan precense, occupations, ... < this is just some basic stuff that would be needed to make it a faction since now it's a broken thing that gets a new restriction.

Then again we don't RP anymore we are just bunch of friends, but seems ryzom community is showing maybe ryzom isn't the game anymore for friends and friendly ppl all they seem to want is war and confrontation.

We will see where it leads to ...

(This isn't meant as offensive as it may sound) Then why you have chosen to be part of the faction that is a synonym for war and confrontation? If you like friendly play then wouldn't being neutral be the better choice?

I mean... you guys don't like to play with the RP background of the marauders. You don't like the conflicts and confrontations of the marauders. And you're afraid that the guild breaks apart if you're marauder. That sounds like three good reasons for me to just skip that marauder stuff and have fun playing with your guild as it is, hanging around in Fairhaven with just the same amount of PVP or whatever you're interested in.

Marauders are the anti-faction, they were introduced by raiding half of Atys and always they said they wanted to destroy the civilizations and were against the higher powers. It's hard to believe no one knew about that when the decision came, living forever happily together with the civs they want to destroy? Even when they said you infiltrate the guilds... that smells like conflict from the beginning! Being totally surprised that the anti-faction is indeed opposite (oh my god!) to the nice guilds and being angry that those opposite things can't be united... that is a bit strange or at least a bit naive in my eyes. You've chosen MARAUDERS not Greenpeace.

I fully agree that the marauder faction isn't very appealing in the current state, still many things missing. But if I was in your position, I would just skip that marauder stuff gameplay-wise, just playing it in RP for fun and hang out with your guild you love.
One day, if there is a fully developed, attractive faction with RP background, Lore and nice gameplay you're free to decide what feelings are stronger in your character's chest. The life of a badass doing bad things raiding cities and killing people or the life of a nice homin, helping others out in the cities and being part of a guild that is part of civilized hominkind. Having both in the end seems highly irrealistic and simply arbitrary and irrational to me like being a Gingo and a Yubo or Fire and Water at the same time.

By the way, personally I'm not happy about the fact that the marauders were introduced as a player faction at all. I think the nations and the factions as they were were fine and good enough. I would be very happy to see the very friendly GoS guild being part of the civilized Atys as a whole.

Well for me there is still hope there, I still hope one day the stuff I believed in comes true.
I hope one day it does all get added and or fixed and so on.

What you are saying is give up and addapt > if that is what ryzom is standing for now then for me it will mean the end of almost 10 years playing on Suboxide

I've been quietly watching this post since it started; The apparently upcoming "fix" has raised some questions in my mind, like what is a "guild anyway?"

Websters defines as guild as :
"an organized group of people who have joined together because they share the same job or interest; especially : an association of people who made or sold goods in the Middle Ages"
Clearly, Ryzom isn't based upon middle ages Earth, it's Science fiction-someplace else. So what is it?

Is a Guild a family? In my family (irl) we have extremely devoted Christians of several faiths, Agnostics and at least one outright Atheist (who shows up for Christmas every year and doesn't start any trouble, just enjoys the holiday for what it is). Politically, we have far right-wing supporters and far left liberals, but we still get together on a daily basis and share holidays. (with no bloodshed mind you)

Is a Guild a job? I've held several occupations and worked for lots of different companies in my life and the one they all have in common, is that the people i meet in the workplace all come from different religious and political backgrounds. I'm a bleeding heart liberal atheist and can gat along just fine with with the most conservative Cristian government hating republican tea-bagger my country has to offer, as long as we get the job done.

Is a guild akin to a quilting/crafting club? I think not. Although I have never been personally involved in any kind of "crafter's club (guild if you will)" I know people who are, and they have a lot of fun discussing differences in politics/religion.

Is a guild a school of some kind? Please, you will never find a more politically/religiously diverse group than you will at a university.

OR... Is a guild in Ryzom just an outward expression of our religious or political fanaticism?

Why not give the power to control who is and is not allowed into a guild to the founders and /or leaders of a guild instead of making religious and political faction a game mechanic? If Ryzom is going to bill itself as a truly sandbox game, then why restrict guild formation in regards to fame? wouldn't it be more dynamic even related to RP if you could have members of a guild who were of opposing factions to interact with each other daily within the same guild, friends in family, but enemies in ideology? Guild leaders could decide how extreme their followers needed to be in order to be in guild, members would be more free to choose their level of fellowship within a cause.
I realize this isn't the easiest solution to this problem for the people who code this game, but maybe it's the best? Giving the guild leaders control of the faction of their own guild could make for a much more rewarding experience for all.

As I already said a few times Aru, if people want to suggest removing guild restictions that should be posted in ideas for Ryzom. But currently guilds do have restrictions.

In regard to what is a guild in Ryzom, we are probably more like a tribe- webster's has three possible definitions of a tribe: (the first fits what we call guilds in Ryzom)

: a group of people that includes many families and relatives who have the same language, customs, and beliefs

: a large family

: a group of people who have the same job or interest

I would suggest that the guild structure as currently implemented parallels the concept of "sept", a tightly bound subdivision of a clan or tribe.

Clearly the game initially intended to encourage players to make divisive choices with consequences as to things like politics and which teleport pacts you got to use.

The rise of the un-aligned class already put stress on that model, and the institution of the Marauders as a playable orientation stressed it in ways that were not foreseen. The lack of speedy coding and adaptation meant that what was, in concept, a bug, went uncorrected long enough for some players to see it as a feature.

The concept that choices have consequences, however, suggests that allowing Marauders into aligned guilds remains a bug. It makes being a Marauder free of certain consequences that Kami and Kara and Nation aligned have to accept.

As Placio points out, a suggestion that guilds be given total control over their membership should be submitted to the Ideas forum since it represents a far greater change in code and play than extra room in GH's or multi-selection for trading.

Myself, I would like to see neutral guilds be allowed to take any members but retain the restrictions on aligned guilds.

A possible fix

But can someone aligned to, say, a nation really be a member of a guild which claims neutrality as a whole? In the course of a war, that member has sworn to a nation and has to take up weapons to fight for it. In fact, it could be that two members of a neutral guild aligned to different nations may have to fight each other in such a situation. The claim of neutrality of the guild, or rather of the representatives of the guild, would be just a joke then.

I am unsure about the topic. I fail to see that obtaining citizenship includes the obligation to engage in violent acts against homins of any other nation (same with cult, btw.). Technically spoken, that would create an obligation for PvP which does not exist in Ryzom.

To me, the concept of granting neutrals access to aligned guilds seems more odd than the other way round. But just my .02 dappers worth.

i've read every word of this thread, love virg's idea post, since it was suggested over and over (saved me doing it virg, cause i would have most riki-tic)

love that someone brought up one of my favorite things to make a point related to ryzom: SANDBOX. virg's idea would without a doubt put the sand back in the box.

couldn't miss that cookies got mentioned a few times, that was nice and i thank those that did. like someone said in relation to cookies: we have to recreate and rejoin our chat channel every server reset, and we have no guildhall that all members can use the "leader" (currently me) has limited control on some aspects of who is a member and who's not; fortunately everyone that's a member sticks to the "rules". do these facts hurt cookies, yes they do: often members get tired of having to rejoin the channel and stop because it get's to be a real pain when there's several resets in a very short time. there's a dependency on each member to work harder to help eachother or new players with gear and items because our storage is limited (that's another reason i have close to 100 f2p alts {20 accounts for those that find the number 100 high}) sure we make due, but that's because we don't have a better option.
but i'll not drone on about cookies.

now for the person that said that a cookies style option would ruin the game, i beg to differ, i agree with arugula's post using real world examples. let's face the fact that in many places the world is full of mixed peoples that often get along just fine together.

there was someone that said guild members would have to fight with eachother for outpost wars: true. but cookies has been doing that for a few years now and we're all still friends, in fact sometimes we kill eachother at outpost wars AND laugh at eachother on teamspeak WHILE we're fighting at the op. it's a game and should be fun, and we (cookies) have fun together even when killing eachother (and rubbing it in while we do it, but always in good fun)

if a guild could be neutral and the members of said guild could be aligned how they way, i see no harm, the guild would stand for no one single view as neutral, yet could have members of all views (there's this thing i have learned about called the "united nations" that seams to do that in the real world, it's not always perfect, but then again what is?)

it's a shame that we see more and more players leaving the game, and while we see a few new players, it's upsetting to see people leaving after years of loyalty and dedication.

if they (WG) want to stick to what ryzom claims to be, sandbox, there's much work to be done to make it truely so, and not all of it is super hard. but in the end the more "rules" the less sandbox and more "fixed" the game becomes. we're loosing what ryzom was for something that's worse. i can deal with bugs, and i can make due with things the way they are, but after 4+ years of mara's not be restricted from guilds it's like bittty said (i think) the door's been open way to long to close it now, cause the horse is long gone.

i'll give those that aren't used to me a brake, but for those that are used to me, just know that i wanted to say much more then i have already..... and that's my 30 dappers.

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