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and just to add- would be great if the higher powers could actually work on something that will help marauders.

I can just about tolerate doing other civ rites (when we don't even have any ourselves). In fact that pisses me off as well but what will be will be.. But if you are going to work on the marauder faction just putting rules and restrictions in place.. come on. Why not do something more useful for the marauder faction.

What i say is that guard have a perfectly good reason to stop you in the city if you are wearing a helmet. Either you do it (and they think you look reaaaally like this marauder everyone heard of after he killed 5 fyros in pyr), or you don't and you are suspect anyway :°
Anyway just wanted to say you can get RP reason why guards does, in fact, attack you when your fame is too low. Or you could just admit that sometimes gameplay overrides roleplay, and beeing in a faction / organisation can means you get some downsides

@Virg, I never imagined you would be pro fake marauders. All the work that been put into making Marauders, and the work that still needs to be done, and people just want to do the rite so they can have pink/purple tps and mock civilizations.

Icus:
Step 1: Do the marauder rite wearing full HA, kill all guards in your path- no guard sees what you look like.

Step 2: Walk into the city the next day in LA with a smile on your face.

How would they ever know you are a marauder?

Placio:
As I said there are for and against arguments, I can see the valid points behind both. Essentially though my biggest issue is that this work will not improve the marauder faction. What we need is missions, rites and occupations. Why should the Fyros and Matis(?) get a new rite before us? They already have plenty of rites they can do. Instead- the work we get will actually alienate some marauders. Regardless of the fact they don't RP, they have been marauder since day 1 and actually drove the initial development of marauders. Sure look at doing it later if you really want but at the end of the day do something (Mission, rites, occupations) that will make all marauders happy.

It is ridiculous we don't have marauder-means of getting dappers. More ridiculous is the fact this is not a priority in dev work.

Guards recognize you because, to became a marauder, you must go down your fame to -42.

-42 = All people know that you are a criminal and don't want to have trade with you. You have your portrait in all guardroom.

Marauder PNJ want that you are "a star". A malefic and hated star, because marauder pnj want only people who is really ennemy of nation and factions.

This is what is reputation, fame : how other people, in a nation/faction, considers you. If you want to be anonymous, stay with start fame. (And start fame are not all in zero, because homins (pnj) in Atys have a lot of partiality and racism... sad but real). You can love nations, but nations don't like you. You are a public ennemy when you are a marauder.

Fame is good logical. Attack by guard is good logical too. Only one thing how is not logical : to go down fame, kill people haven't effect. PNJ consider that you are more offensive when you says "I don't want to stay citizen... ho, wait, I'm not citizen !" than when you kill them...

Ugh ... role play arguments

Bottom line - who does it hurt to have a mixed guild??
Placio? Rik? Loafa? Icus?

How exactly does it harm you??
I am talking game here - not YOUR role play

PS - forgot the Z one

Bina, you could have started a post in Ideas for Ryzom saying there should be no faction restrictions on guilds. What this discussion has been saying is that a handful of people should get a privilege that the other 99% of players cannot have.

And yes my game mechanics will still work perfectly fine regardless of marauders being in aligned guilds, however this is a multiplayer game and if some players get special treatment then it does affect how the game is played.

Hello again everyone, it seems to me that people have only been focusing on 1 point and that is the Marauder group and have missed the bigger and real picture regarding role-play. In my previous post, I highlighted that if you want a serious role-playing environment then everything I stated needs to change and be addressed or we are just making 1 rule change to appease a few people at the greater expense of destroying an entire community because if I am reading between the lines, you will see a mass exudes of toons and then the few who benefited will have no one for the precise role-playing to accrue.

As I stated before in my previous post, I am fairly new to the game and up to now still enjoy regardless of the fact that i have been killed for no reason other than the company i keep and for "just because" as an excuse but I cannot recommend this game to anyone if this is the direction we are headed by force game play. If you want to force everyone to follow this path, then i suggest you eliminate Free-2-Play and see how drastically the landscape changes and let the hardcore Pay-2-Play enjoy their time which will not last long and a game destroyed.

Sounds like we are headed back to what was describe to me as the old days with multiple servers or no game will exist at all.

Thank you, Soyeok :-)

lol
<3 Kervala

regarding cookies channel, perhaps it is an alternative to a guild structure, but it comes with both indignities and inconveniences. AFAIK, everyone is kicked at a server reset and has to 'rejoin' each time. Also, no way to kick members who do not abide by the group's ethos (totally separate to RP) or who are suspected of spying from other guilds. no centralised collection of materials so anybody less than full crafter can easily make equipment for young homins. there is no obligation to a chat channel in the way there is to a guild... if a guild is is tight like spandex, then chat channels are tight like 10-year old underwear...

If devs want or had intended guilds to be a strict role-playing element, so be it. But for all those who do anythign less than hard-core RP, where is the equivalent?

The restrictions on aligned members joinin gcertain guilds are game mechanics, not roleplay. Roleplay has nothign to do with what Tamarea said needed to be corrected.

@ Bina: I guess what bothers me more is the idea thrown around of investing dev time and effort into modifying the existing code so that there's no longer guild restrictions and anyone can join any guild regardless of alignment.

First of all, we all know dev time and resources appear to be very limited and we have scarce few new patches coming out. So I'd MUCH rather see that time invested in new content (such as new missions and occupations for marauders as Virg suggests, those are sorely needed) instead of modifying guild restrictions.

Secondly because gameplay wise, if you are to make guilds free for all, then you might as well just discard the whole concept of Kami and Kara and factions, throw that out of the window, give the same PR TPs to everyone and be done with it. Then discard the whole concept of civ as well, give full NH rewards for everyone, and that's it. No more civs or factions, just guilds. And I know that'd suit some players just fine, but it just goes against the whole concept of Ryzom as a game.

@ Soyeok: No matter what the devs decide to do, it WILL piss off some players and loose some subs. There's no magic choice here that will suddenly make Ryzom flourish because it pleases everyone. As a matter of fact, you could argue more subs are lost by people dropping out of game for lack of RP than for lack of "free for all" guilds. Someone recently told me Aniro had OP wars in which 200+ players attended. Where are all those players now?

Also there's no "direction its headed" Soyeok. Ryzom guilds have worked like this since forever (or at least very early on in its development). There's always been the alignment restriction in place. The reason for this whole discussion is because marauder is a new organization. It only came out a few years ago, therefore all the code is new. And as Placio already explained, it was technical difficulties, limitations, oversights or whatever it was that have kept them from following the same limitations other factions and civs have always had. And they have been trying to fix that. As simple as that.

Now if you ask me whether I would prefer the next patch to be either a "fix" for kicking marauders out of non-marauder guilds OR a new content in the form of a new rite or boss, then I'd definitely go for the new content. I think that'd add more to the game.

I think that some unwelcoming people want to turn Ryzom into an all out role playing game. Some come onto Ryzom to socialize, explore and just to have fun. Others like to play seriously. Why would they take that away? Take that choice away?
Some of us choose our factions simply because they are cool or they have less conflict. Seriously. The Ryzom team is now creating a problem that should'nt exist and doesn't have a justified reasoning to it.
If we just want to enjoy the wonders of the game and to create connections with people by flailing around the game, then we should have the freedom to do so.

I'm so sick of overly sensitive people who are as boring as a rock. They truly believe that strict rules are needed to have a civilized organization. You know what, life isn't civilized and it never was.
Stop staying in your bubble and open yourself up to the world. Unless you have a severe immunodeficiency, then judge and hate 'till your sick of it. But if not, get your head out of your ass.

If you don't care about RP why are you choosing a faction/organization?

_Neutral_ provides the game play for what you guys want as in "socialize, explore and just to have fun".

I don't want just to state the obvious here, because I know how it feels to make a change, my guild moved from marauder to another faction, we had to raise from -100, but I don't see why it cant become a guild event and you guys still have fun with the change...

Exodus/Gkr