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#23 Added by Bones 10 years ago Report | Quote [en]

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If this was real life would I see a person's faction tag above his or her head??? I've never seen it and the only time I ever knew about somebody's religion or country of origin is when he or she told me what they were. Hard coding a restriction such as this only takes away realism while giving back only a headache. If there was no "hard coded" restriction we would have a better possibitlity for spies and even actively be able to try to "convert" someone to the religion or faction of choice. I don't know how much more RP than that it can get.
But he/she is teaming with the enemy!! How do you know for certain what is going on in that team chat or guild chat if you are not in it? Maybe they are doing RP?
I think it's far too late in the game to start this and if it was to go through it should be from neutral to aligned. You would have to earn the right by aligning to join a guild as a neutral, mara or ranger aspirant too if it's to be fair and equal.

#24 Added by Virg 10 years ago Report | Quote [en]

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Personally I think the biggest mistake is forcing aligned players into only aligned guilds.

Anyone should be allowed to join a normal guild. (I use the word normal because neutral implies too much). Normal guilds should be the standard guild.

On top of this- players should have the option of aligning their guild specifically to Marauder/Kami/Kara/Tryker etc etc. This should give some sort of benefit- be it RP, a title or whatever and this also means that everyone within that guild has to follow that alignment. This means those 'hardcore roleplayers' (half of who don't have the imagination to think beyond the lore (there are of course some nice ones out there)) can be happy in their RP guilds.

This also means those who don't care much for RP but still want the option to be whatever alignment they want- can do so in a normal guild. To me I can't think of any good reason why homins from different backgrounds shouldn't be able to come together under one roof. The issue lies in that guild being alligned.
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So that I think would be the best compromise- still have the option of aligned guilds with some sort of benefit but allow 'normal' guilds to have any alignment.

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#25 Added by Placio 10 years ago Report | Quote [en]

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This is the original post that explained the problems that were being solved regarding the Marauders:

Tamarea (atys)

When the marauder rite has been added, there was not any specific "marauder fame": the Marauders were recognized by their all very negative fames only and not by a specific marauder positive one. This has caused problems with the marauder guards, who didn't recognized the Marauders so didn't defended them. Since then, the gameplay has been changed and a specific Marauders positive fame has been added: any Marauder has got a >50 Marauder fame now. That's the reason why the marauder guards protect Marauders now: they check their Marauder fame.

The old system (Marauder = all negative fames and not = marauder fame>50) is also the reason why there still have a "bug" with the guilds, who don't check the new "marauder fame" for the moment so don't recognize a Marauder and only see him as a factions-neutral and civilizations-neutral. This has to be fixed. A Marauder shouldn't be able to join a non marauder guild, as a Kara homin can't join a Kami one or a Fyros homin can't join a Matis one.

This old system (Marauder = all negative fames and not = marauder fame>50) causes also a technical problem with the forums: Marauders should not have access to "Factions-neutrals" forum neither to "Civilization-neutrals" one because they are not neutrals, they are "Marauders". This will have to be fixed too.

The current ability for a marauder to be in a civ/cult aligned guild is a bug. They are fixing it so that Maras will have to follow the same rules that already apply to all other homins.

Personally i think they could also adjust city guards to see the positive Mara fame, it is a joke that a mara can walk past guards just because their civ fame is up to -42 or whatever the magic number is.

Finally, I have no idea what the point of this thread is. Bina was the first person to reply to Tamarea's post, so this isn't a new issue. If anyone has an idea on how to improve guilds it should be posted in the ideas for ryzom section, Otherwise it seems this thread is just here for us to bash each other and the ryzom staff :(

#26 Added by Zendae 10 years ago Report | Quote [en]

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I agree with Placio

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#27 Added by Rikutatis 10 years ago Report | Quote [en]

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+1 Placio. Perfect reasoning there.

On the issue of Rangers: There are no Rangers. Not yet. Marauders is already a finalized organization/faction. You can take a rite and become a marauder. Rangers do not exist yet as a coded organization. That's why "aspirant" rangers can be in any guild at the moment. I'm pretty sure once Rangers are implemented as an official organization, the same limitations will apply to them as well. That is, rangers in ranger guilds only. As it should be. So no point in complaining about it now and trying to compare the two.

On the issue of multi-faction, multi-race guilds as per Virg's suggestion: The idea has merit, but I think it'd be a waste of dev time because there are already other systems in place to facilitate that stye of play. You can make chat channels, multi-faction teams, leagues, etc. Proof of that is the successful Cookies group. They are a multi-faction, multi-race group of like minded individuals who use chat channels, leagues, teams etc to make their vision come to life. And they've been going on for quite some time now. So it works.

If you're such good friends and you want to stay guilded no matter what, then I'm sure switching to your guild's current alignment shouldn't be a problem at all. People have been doing this for the past 10 years.

Ryzom already offers more freedom than most theme park MMO's. In the other games choosing a race locks you into a particular faction and you can't even team with opposing factions. In Ryzom you can be a Zorai who chooses to align with the Karavan instead and join teams with marauders. If you ask me that's more than enough freedom.

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"We are Kami. We are here to be you. We are many as you are of many minds. We are one as you are one in Ma-Duk."

#28 Added by Virg 10 years ago Report | Quote [en]

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*Groan* We had this argument already on Marauder forum..

First things first. Marauders walking past guards.. You are not thinking through this properly. Say you are taking a Marauder rite- you wear full HA- you go do the rite. The only homins who know you are a marauder are the marauders themselves and whoever you decide to tell. We don't go running around with a big sign strapped to our backs that say 'HEY! I AM A MARAUDER! ATTACK ME!' (Some of us might but that is reflected in our RP by our fames). Marauders have every entitlement to be discreet.

So it makes perfect RP sense that guards won't know you are a marauder until you do more deeds that make you infamous, make you more well-known and then guards will know to attack you.

(EDIT: If any changes should be done its the FH guards freakishly big HP- makes no sense at all. Haven't been on recently so don't know if its been fixed but I doubt it).

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Secondly. Marauders are an organisation. We are a multi-national organisation that operates in all nations. Think of us like the Mafia. In that sense we aren't like a religion. I won't delve into that bit anymore but there are 'for' and 'against' in whether marauders should be in Kami/Kara guilds. Either way as Placio said this isn't an new issue so why is it being brought up now?

Last edited by Virg (10 years ago)

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#29 Added by Lacuna 10 years ago Report | Quote [en]

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Virg (atys)

*Groan* We had this argument already on Marauder forum..

First things first. Marauders walking past guards.. You are not thinking through this properly. Say you are taking a Marauder rite- you wear full HA- you go do the rite. The only homins who know you are a marauder are the marauders themselves and whoever you decide to tell. We don't go running around with a big sign strapped to our backs that say 'HEY! I AM A MARAUDER! ATTACK ME!' (Some of us might but that is reflected in our RP by our fames). Marauders have every entitlement to be discreet.

So it makes perfect RP sense that guards won't know you are a marauder until you do more deeds that make you infamous, make you more well-known and then guards will know to attack you.

(EDIT: If any changes should be done its the FH guards freakishly big HP- makes no sense at all. Haven't been on recently so don't know if its been fixed but I doubt it).

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Secondly. Marauders are an organisation. We are a multi-national organisation that operates in all nations. Think of us like the Mafia. In that sense we aren't like a religion. I won't delve into that bit anymore but there are 'for' and 'against' in whether marauders should be in Kami/Kara guilds. Either way as Placio said this isn't an new issue so why is it being brought up now?

+1 for an rp explanation that makes far more sense than guards being superheros with supernatural powers of perception.

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#30 Added by Icus 10 years ago Report | Quote [en]

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[quote=Lacuna (atys)]

Virg (atys)

*Groan* We had this argument already on Marauder forum..

First things first. Marauders walking past guards.. You are not thinking through this properly. Say you are taking a Marauder rite- you wear full HA- you go do the rite. The only homins who know you are a marauder are the marauders themselves and whoever you decide to tell. We don't go running around with a big sign strapped to our backs that say 'HEY! I AM A MARAUDER! ATTACK ME!' (Some of us might but that is reflected in our RP by our fames). Marauders have every entitlement to be discreet.

So it makes perfect RP sense that guards won't know you are a marauder until you do more deeds that make you infamous, make you more well-known and then guards will know to attack you.

Yes, but you could also argue that guard would ask homins who are deliberately trying to hide their face (so, who they are) in a city to stop by and remove their helmet. (Same could also be said of anyone having a weapon in a city)

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#31 Added by Suboxide 10 years ago Report | Quote [en]

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> About why this is now on the agenda, this is because a csr has been gloating to us that is will soon be implemented.

> About tama saying it's a bug is kind of strange since when asked 4/5 years or so ago to csr's it was not regarded as a bug. It was also not dealth with as an bug or exploit. In RP it was even encouraged to be used.
If event team themself tell you in an RP event to join kami and kara guilds as mara undercover and convert them from inside then explain to me how same event team all off a sudden finds out about this bug.

=> sounds to me more like forcing something and hiding behind it being a bug.

This is the sad state I guess in ryzom where we the players that don't RP have to addapt or leave because SOME RP players can't cope with the fact some ppl play to relax and have fun; My mind is made up I'm tired of the harrasement on my adress, lets not forget the mess they did with the guards in FH (it is also strange that this bug was announced to be fixed around the time they removed the guards with their tail between their legs). If this anti GoS and Monks patch gets released I'll be f2p and pissed.

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#32 Added by Zilon 10 years ago Report | Quote [en]

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Suboxide (atys)

This is the sad state I guess in ryzom where we the players that don't RP have to addapt or leave because SOME RP players can't cope with the fact some ppl play to relax and have fun

I hope it's a joke .......

#33 Added by Virg 10 years ago Report | Quote [en]

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Icus (atys)

Yes, but you could also argue that guard would ask homins who are deliberately trying to hide their face (so, who they are) in a city to stop by and remove their helmet. (Same could also be said of anyone having a weapon in a city)

No you missed the point. You can do the rite wearing a helm- you can dispatch of the guards without them ever seeing who you are. So when you next walk into the city you are just another homin.

The idea that guards should automatically recognise and attack marauders (especially ones who have just joined) is stupid. As marauders do more infamous acts then it makes RP sense that guards would remember their faces and attack them.

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#34 Added by Placio 10 years ago Report | Quote [en]

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@Vrig, yes my comment about guards was off topic, but relevant to the quote. According to your logic, how would any guard anywhere know whom to attack or defend if they did not have information about fames. I imagine photographs of Atys's most wanted in guard barracks.

@Subo, so the point of this thread is just to annoy and piss off people because you can't get your way??? I dont know what event team said about it, and you already said you don't RP so you can't claim that you are a spy- and if you were a spy shouldn't we be able to catch you and lock you up, but they are fixing it now. If you want to be in a kami/tryker guild all you have to do is go neutral- problem solved!

#35 Added by Virg 10 years ago Report | Quote [en]

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and just to add- would be great if the higher powers could actually work on something that will help marauders.

I can just about tolerate doing other civ rites (when we don't even have any ourselves). In fact that pisses me off as well but what will be will be.. But if you are going to work on the marauder faction just putting rules and restrictions in place.. come on. Why not do something more useful for the marauder faction.

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#36 Added by Icus 10 years ago Report | Quote [en]

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Virg (atys)

Icus (atys)
Yes, but you could also argue that guard would ask homins who are deliberately trying to hide their face (so, who they are) in a city to stop by and remove their helmet. (Same could also be said of anyone having a weapon in a city)

No you missed the point. You can do the rite wearing a helm- you can dispatch of the guards without them ever seeing who you are. So when you next walk into the city you are just another homin.

The idea that guards should automatically recognise and attack marauders (especially ones who have just joined) is stupid. As marauders do more infamous acts then it makes RP sense that guards would remember their faces and attack them.

What i say is that guard have a perfectly good reason to stop you in the city if you are wearing a helmet. Either you do it (and they think you look reaaaally like this marauder everyone heard of after he killed 5 fyros in pyr), or you don't and you are suspect anyway :°
Anyway just wanted to say you can get RP reason why guards does, in fact, attack you when your fame is too low. Or you could just admit that sometimes gameplay overrides roleplay, and beeing in a faction / organisation can means you get some downsides

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#37 Added by Placio 10 years ago Report | Quote [en]

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@Virg, I never imagined you would be pro fake marauders. All the work that been put into making Marauders, and the work that still needs to be done, and people just want to do the rite so they can have pink/purple tps and mock civilizations.

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