I am not all that familiar with OPs and what they cost and the production etcetera what I am somewhat familiar with is the OP battles themselves and I have to agree that for the most part they have become a drawn out and boring process.

I like the idea of removing the defense stage. I also feel that if the defense phase is eliminated then more notice needs to be given of the attack phase.

I have my disclaimer about not knowing much about actual OP production .. an option might be that the OP continues production under the new owners as if nothing has changed only the receiver of the OP mat.

If there was only single phase then perhaps there should be two days between declare and battle itself. Might be fair that defender could change the start time of battle up to 3h if they wish. Might be tricky to implement, but would be more fair.

@ virg: it's in there at the end, that i'm in support of this with a huge "IF" attached, but should the "if" be done, then i would be in favor of this idea with a few considerations already mentioned previously.

my support is here, but it's bound to a big "IF".

(seams we can't get away from the "IF, WHEN, THEN, OR" these days virg, lolx. {said with love cause you know what i'm saying})

I disagree, Talk. Either the idea is a good one or it is not. It cannot suddenly become a good idea upon the introduction of an unrelated action.

@ Atheus and Tibest: Yup I agree on the longer time frame from hitting to declare to the OP attack itself. This also should be part of the 'cooldown' period of double production (if that is added). Changing the guards is an interesting idea- I think this could be best done after the new OP turnout is introduced. I have a few ideas myself on that for example paying what can only be described as a ridiculous amount to have Lixie bombers spawn. Of course with the change in OP wars I would hope the coding could get moved to ARK (I know the ARK team are very busy- this is a 'best case scenario'). In this case future additions can be made more easily, anyone using ARK can develop things for OP wars, and we can see OP wars evolve over time- not just stay the same. It would be a pain to produce OP wars within ARK but the advantages are massive.

@ Talk and Bittty: Talk I understand you want OP mats to be given a PVE option of obtaining. I personally disagree. I also agree with Bittty, whether or not that happens doesn't affect whether this would be an improvement on original OP wars. Please no more chat about this. I do not want this post getting off topic- please.

Don't hate the idea but I think the owner should be able to counter declare for free in like a 2week timeframe (after he got to pay up?)
Another thing thats been said is change declare time from 24h to 48h wich is a must if this would happen (need to be a little bit fair)

For the rest I'm sure there will be declares on an euro weekday night at 4 in the morning, I've seen em in the past and been to some on ari the rest I overslept trough them :s.
> in the end I don't mind these since if the attacker wins 1à2 weeks later we have another op war at a good time from the previous owner at a good time from him and his guild.

So yes I understand some ppl want a higher op war turnovers and why not give them it? If you don't like it do like the guild I'm in and just say fuck it we don't need op's. (doesn't mean you can't go to op wars)

The "2nd Phase" is what it makes fair at all!
leave outpost as it is, what we need is something totally new for the "mass pvp" to move tha fraction part away from outpost... (outpost is oficially not a fraction terrain! it is guild vs. guild with all options available)

we need something like spires. one for nations, one for fractions.

@ Purg: I would rather not leave OP wars as they are, and instead, change OP wars for the better. I think the vast majority of the playerbase realises a change is needed judging by how many ideas have been posted on improving them, and the massive interest, views and responses they have all received. The difficult part is finding something which will make them better and then agreeing on it.

The second phase is currently what makes OP wars not 'fair'. It takes the skill out of them. A smaller force has no chance of winning against a bigger force when there is a second phase. You don't need to wipe the opposing force to win the first attacking phase.


For me this idea can be put rather simply:
1) It makes OPs easier to attack and win
2) It makes OPs harder to hold on to

The additions people have suggested do:
3) Puts an emphasis on holding OPs short term
4) Gives defenders plenty of warning to get their defence organized


OP wars need to be more dynamic. Why should OP mats be gathering dust in some GH for years upon years, just because that guild is supported by the biggest faction? There are of course some fixes:
1) People change factions (Doesn't happen often and I don't blame people who don't want to change)
2) We start doing GVG as Nizy suggested (No Kami guild has accept at GVG)
3) OP wars are changed. They are old, outdated and it is time for a change.
4) We wait for numbers to become balanced through natural progression. I'll go put the kettle on.

Virg, why do you always ask people what they think, then tell them that they are incorrect and state your opinion again as if it is fact???

That is how I might come across.. I think you are misunderstanding me- I am merely discussing what I think. In this case I believe I am right whilst Purg thinks he is right- with two completely opposing opinions it can be hard to find wiggle room between the two. As such I added a few points and summarized the general points I felt are worth mentioning (not just repeating myself).

The whole point of this is to see what others think, see if that changes your own opinion and then respond. It just so happens I was not swayed by Purg's post- there is nothing wrong with that.

What are players thoughts on an algorithm which changed guard hp based on how many homins are attacking? (Such a thing would obviously require testing to get the right formula).

Wouldn't make much sense that it gets harder to attack when you attack with a larger force.

Fair enough.

it's not like i never wnated to change smth.
i was often angry about the "bad" system, coz i was emotional!
But if you look at it from the side ..

1-2 years ago, there were "no hope" that something "big" could ever be added into game, so every one knew that the only and last mass pvp content will ever be outpost war. But for now, i think outpost (as it was announced - as pure Guild vs. Guild that is open for everything esle a guild want to do) is actually really good designed. more building could be added etc, but the basic war-system is very good and fair!
IF THEREWEREN'T 2ND PHASE - pleaso think of different time zones(!) - a american guild could attack some european at 18 pm local time ...and no one see it, when the "former owner" came online, it's already too late. worst case.

Outpost system seem to be "broken" or "bad" only because of the fraction part! it always was... that's doesnt work, coz it never was planed. For "Fyros - Matis territorial conficts" or "Kami and Karavan holy war" is needed an other playground. Outpost fight can still stay open for all, but the main confict should be transferred to another dimension. And since years outpost wars == fraction wars. But it is not true. And that's why i personally have a problem with "hardcore RP" guilds, wo even force this confilct in outpost battles and blame others who is "not that hardcore". Dear Hardcore RP guilds: look into the lore, where is that passage - saying that we left the "peaceful time" and are again in the religious war between the FOLLOWERS?
For that part, there were planned SPIRES. But they weren't released and are canceled forever, it seems.

Virg, you talk about annoyance of counter attacks and attacks at "unfair" times. So basically you and Xtarsia propose to change one annoyance to another one? With only one phase this option gonna be exploited, just like the GvG loophole with amassing guild-hoppers in attacking guild. I'm not sure what's more annoying - an attack on Monday 9 a.m. my time, or counter declaration.

Also, I think there is a technological issue. From my observations, Ryzom developers are - let me pick up the right word here - shy of messing with the game code. From what I understand, removing second phase would involve a lot of messing (I'm not a coder, so sheer speculation on my part here). Probably not gonna happen, as better not to fix what isn't broken.

IMO, the best possible solution to revive OP wars these days is removal of double XP bonus and bringing back XP crystals. I was thinking hard about it, but ruining of the old system is beyond my understanding. Rewarding loyal players with double XP? Give them some freaky title instead and that's it, they'll be happy and thanking you forever.

Today you need one hand to count all the OP's worthy of attack - Loria, Westgrove, Ginti, two Woodburns. OK, maybe I'm being hypercritical here, let's also consider their q200 versions. That's 10 outposts out of what, 28? All the others could be non-existent at this point, nobody cares. With crystals being out of game those are useless. (Before you correct me, jungle q250's are worthless, because cheng and greslin are pieces of monkey poo). There used to be pretty hot massive battles over q100 and q150 outposts - but now those days are gone and players bound to shuffle the same handful of outposts.

The Outposts were the last major content add-on before Nevrax vanished into oblivion. Now this content is half dead, half ruined. In the game were high-end content is scarce, removing or making obsolete (OP mat vendors? lolwut?) a big chunk of it with no replacement whatsoever - that's the move of SOE's NGE level.