English

Good day everyone, sorry for arriving late to this little party. I have been dancing this argo dance for several years now and the only solution is an "Eye-for-an-Eye", that is how the game was developed and making changes is pointless. I fought this battle on mainland and in Prime Roots for years and regardless of death penalties or being ticketed i made my point back in kind. If you are weak enough too allow someone to steal something from you, then you did not deserve it in the first place.

As for the person who said they can foresee at least a dozen new situations for exploitation, i highly doubt that and maybe you should be clear and precise with examples otherwise best not to talk.

Finally, people need to put their "Big-Boy" pants on and as a wise man once told me "if you cannot run with the big dogs, then you need to stay on the porch".

Everybody should be aware that even peaceful herbies are turning agro towards those who heal their attacker. So I fail to see the point that healers of agroed players should not be considered attackers, too, regardless of team affiliation.

Beneath that, I doubt the wisdom of this patch for a different reason. It is not wise to answer abuse with technical measures. When people are bragging here that they have broken the rules before and intend continuing to do so, that points not to a lack of technical brilliance of the devs but to a lack of effective policing of abusers.

This is not only the case with harassment like agro dragging but also, if not more, with abuse like cheating and botting which seems to be thriving at the moment. The usual punishments, a warning, or a week of ban etc. are ridiculed by the abusers.

I would favor effective punishment such as revocation of skill levels, destruction of gear, emptying of inventories, meks, apts, and guildhalls depending on the severity of abuse and the number of repetitions.

Such power, such testosterone! I tremble with fear, you're a hero indeed! I heard all the cute trykerettes are highly impressed by skilled aggro draggers ^^

Good day Daomei, that is actually not a bad idea for punishment with lose if items possibly based upon what you are currently wearing/inventory on toon at time of offense.

As for Rikutatis, you need to re-read what I wrote and come-up with a more intelligent answer or come-back if you plan on discussing something.

Zatarga

So much hate directed towards the devs for applying a simple patch which prevents aggro dragging. Just in case it surpassed you Daomei... Less aggro dragging= less opportunities to harass people, less complaints filed, less dev time spent on dealing with such complaints and just an easier time for all.

Yes they could try and increase their policing but why? When all they need to do is apply a patch that will save so much time? Would you rather try and arrest people who rob your house or have a wall put up for free which means they can't do it in the first place? (Bad analogy so don't nitpick- just simply getting the obvious point across that you somehow managed to miss).

I don't see the need to be so rude. Its a simple solution to something which has been an issue for many. Well done devs.

Oh and PS: Anyone who heals a player attacking a mob gets aggro'd regardless of team. That seemed to fly over your head as well.

Virg you are late to the party. The original post looked messed up. It is fixed now. I just wanted to know if I can drag now leagally or not :P

Some posts are only a day old- after the post was cleared up :P

Bones, I think Virg read my name, got in a state of aggression, and simply missed everything written in the post (typical for males, in a testosterone and adrenaline rush, vision is blurred, and rational thinking even more).

As I have written from the beginning:and:
Further on, I am hardly the one who has ever been blaming the devs or CSR much less ever showing "hate" against them. As to the patch, it might indeed prove useful because agro dragging out of neglect (a sin I confess having been guilty of more than once while I never dragged agro onto others on purpose) will happen much less often. So I do not say that the change is useless.

As to policing, this is not at all the job of the devs, Virg still has to learn a lot, obviously. Rather, this unpleasant chore is left to the CSR, fellow player volunteers who certainly like many things better than disciplining other parents' spoiled and misbehaving brats. I am fully aware of that.

And I took the phenomenon of abusive agro dragging only as an example, a minor transgression compared to botting and cheating. Yet I think that the punishments used and available are nothing less than abhorrent to the perpetrators.

In a wider perspective, the admins of this game have few effective punishments at the moment. Permaban removes a customer, it is abhorrent towards the CSR and WG not much less than towards the villains, and is used rarely, therefore. Other punishments are temporary bans, which are fairly ineffective, every ban beyond a couple of weeks will result in an unsubbing, hurting WG and thus the whole community.

Therefore, not out of hatred or any other silly male phantasy, I suggested more effective means of disciplining, making the perpetrator feeling the pain and not the company or the community likewise.

bones is drunk and saying hello to his friend Virg hahaaha he knows I was being me :P

Oh typical.. 'Me male *drums chest*. You scientifically educated female. Me wrong.' Sexism is ugly- please stop.

The hate I was referring to was generally people who were in confusion about the patch. After this confusion then of course you were still unchanging offering oodles of wisdom: 'It is not wise to answer abuse with technical measures.'

Um.. yes it is. If you can prevent abuse with technical measures it saves time having to deal with each and every ticket and complaint about players abusing the system. I feel like I am repeating myself but you seem incapable of reading what I am writing.



I do however agree stricter policing is required but technical measures are far more effective. Correct policing of policies is the one thing the higher powers that be are completely and utterly incapable of getting right. They permaban some players for minor things offering little advantage but when players illegaly farm 8 q250 PVP items, sell some publicly and couldn't be more obvious about breaking the rules... Well they simply receive a slap on the wrist and are allowed to carry on waltzing around Ryzom in their illegal gear. Policing requires judgement. Technical measures remove the problem (or part of it at least) therefore causing less opportunities for poor clouded judgement.

Of course I know you were being you Bonesy *grin*

Virg, let's forget about the fights, and if I have gone too far, I apologize. I consider you somebody who is seriously engaged in improving the game so let us forget about useless quarreling. As to the sexism thing, I have too often experienced the chest drumming attitude not to be sensitive about, maybe too much. And yes, I am sticking to science, and there are not few males in that field I extremely respect, Georg Cantor and David Hilbert to name a few.

I agree to you that technical measures may close loopholes and reduce abuse as well as unintentional conflicts. Therefore I agree that the change under dispute may prove useful.

But it will not address the problem of intentional abusers like cheaters and botters, and no technical solution will. Because hunting abusers is chasing a moving target while technical solutions are static by their nature.

That is why things like a CoC or penal codes in RL do exist. They are addressing unruly behavior rather than special situations prone to be addressed by technical measures. Stealing is prohibited by penal codes no matter how, where or when the thief is stealing, for example. Technical intricacies are irrelevant, here.

Ingame, it is the (unpleasant) duty of the CSR to determine transgressions.Game mechanics do not help much, here. But what is missing, are not so much definitions of abuses, rather efficient sanctions.

That was what I was writing about. And in fact, I am not unemotional about the topic. Right now, a seasoned and respected player is unsubbing because she is pissed off by the abundance of botting in the game. Though I disapprove that kind of reaction as escapism if not cowardice the abuse causing such reaction exists.

Accepted and agreed.