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IDEAS FOR RYZOM
make generic materials an item we can trade
agree / se mettre d'accord / zustimmen / estar de acuerdo / согласны 51 (11)
72.9%
disagree / être en désaccord / anderer Meinung sein / no estar de acuerdo / не соглашаться 16 (1)
22.9%
Other 3
4.3%
Abstain 4
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#1 Added by Talkirc 1 decade ago Multilingual 

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make generic materials an item that can be traded.

Last edited by Talkirc (10 years ago) | Reason: added choice to the title

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Remickla (atys)
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#2 Added by Marceline 1 decade ago [en] 

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why aren't they tradable?

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marceline nitwit.
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Douglas (atys)
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#3 Added by Talkirc 1 decade ago [en] 

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exactly what i'd like to know.

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Remickla (atys)
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#4 Added by Djaimse 1 decade ago [fr] 

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Je pense que c'est bien que les matières génériques ne soient pas échangeables sur Silan, cela évite les abus.

Par contre, sur le continent, c'est vrai, ça se discute.

#5 Added by Talkirc 1 decade ago [en] 

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the gen mat's on silan are only Q10, so it would have a very poor use in the long run, all items made would only be Q10.

one could argue that only gen mat's Q50 and up could be tradeable to prevent any silan exploit.

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Remickla (atys)
Other games - they give you a cookie whether you succeed or not, in fact you don't even have to participate. Ryzom takes your cookie, eats it in front of you, and slaps you 2 or 3 times for bringing a cookie in the first place.
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#6 Added by Bitttymacod 1 decade ago [en] 

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I would like to see the gen mats that are bought from the Nation Points merchants be tradeable, but suspect that the reason they are not is that the "gifted" generic mats of new toons are made untradeable to avoid exploits in Silan. The solution would to make the purchasable ones have a different object sheet, but i have my doubts that such is likely.

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Remembering Tyneetryk
Phaedreas Tears - 15 years old and first(*) of true neutral guilds in Atys.
(*) This statement is contested, but we are certainly the longest lasting.
<clowns | me & you | jokers>

#7 Added by Talkirc 10 years ago [en] 

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it would seem that your not reading everything, since i just addressed that very issue prior to the very post you made. here let me quote myself and say this again:

Talkirc (atys)
the gen mat's on silan are only Q10, so it would have a very poor use in the long run, all items made would only be Q10.

one could argue that only gen mat's Q50 and up could be tradeable to prevent any silan exploit.

please read everything prior to posting, as i had already addressed the issue of silan gen mat's in the thread. i really fail to see how silan gifting would be an issue considering the Q10 nature, but i offered a simple and very easy to do fix: make ONLY Q50 and above gen mat's tradeable, as there are no Q10 gen mat's on the mainland.

i am surprised that you agree that they (gen mat's on the mainland) should be tradeable, i think this is the first time ever that you have agreed with me, but in the same single post, you still have no confidence that it will come to pass, perhaps because ryzom's not one to often reward hope.

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Remickla (atys)
Other games - they give you a cookie whether you succeed or not, in fact you don't even have to participate. Ryzom takes your cookie, eats it in front of you, and slaps you 2 or 3 times for bringing a cookie in the first place.
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#8 Added by Bitttymacod 10 years ago [en] 

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Talk:

It is you who did not read carefully what *I* wrote. Some Silan toons have q100 *excellent* potato mats! (There are still toons there who came through the second swarming but have not been activated.) There are also generic potato mats that are given to the new homin by Welcomer missions -- I would not want to see those be tradeable for the same reason I would not want to see the Silan mats tradeable.

I wrote a very specific commentary on your post, taking all things that I know about into account.

If, as seems likely, the choice, fine, basic and excellent potato mats each share an item sheet then there is no way to tell purchased from gifted potato mats. You cannot make q50 mats non-tradeable and make q100 mats tradeable without creating a new item sheet and including it in both the server and client files. If you did that, then the matter of tradeability would be coded into the item sheet and the matter of q-level would be irrelevant.

-- Bittty

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Remembering Tyneetryk
Phaedreas Tears - 15 years old and first(*) of true neutral guilds in Atys.
(*) This statement is contested, but we are certainly the longest lasting.
<clowns | me & you | jokers>

#9 Added by Talkirc 10 years ago [en] 

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bittty:

if there are still toons in silan that are from the merger, one of two things are likely, they will never play again, or they won't have been active as this is being discussed and would likely assume that cant' be traded still. further more, a gen mat is a gen mat, and there is that risk i agree, but there's no reason to shoot down an idea that ACTIVE players want, we needed worry about IF someone that's not played in over a year has some mats in silan, because there's no way to get more in silan.

i've checked and it's possible to make only Q50 and above tradeable. and i'm not going to concern myself with the "what if someone that's not played in over two years comes back" i'm far more concerned with the players that are paying and playing (subbed and f2p) right now.

if your worried about some dead account that would likely have to go to the csr's to be revived, your not considering those of us that are ACTIVE at all.

please consider those of us that are here and not the one's that are not here, and try not to make a simple issue complex so that it's less likely to be done. for once simply be in favor of something the active player base can use. (if they were going to play ryzom isn't it likely they have already returned? and are they likely to have a wreckless in silan still? or a toon that won a merger pack?)

your always looking at the darkest most worse case things, could you please for once not try to make everything look bad in some way.

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Remickla (atys)
Other games - they give you a cookie whether you succeed or not, in fact you don't even have to participate. Ryzom takes your cookie, eats it in front of you, and slaps you 2 or 3 times for bringing a cookie in the first place.
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#10 Added by Bitttymacod 10 years ago [en] 

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Let's see, a quick check within my guild reveals at least one recently reactivated toon who follows the forums and who traded exe crafted items to one of our Silan alts.

That's just in one small guild. I know I have seven alts on Silan waiting for me to turn them into something interesting. I can't be the only one.
i've checked and it's possible to make only Q50 and above tradeable
Who did you check with? What method would be used to do that? Interested parties (me) want to know.

I've already said that I'd like to have the purchasable potato mats tradeable and I have reasons involving exploits for not making "gifted" mats tradeable. Why are we arguing?

As for why do I assume that players will exploit, put it down to experience, both in this game and others. Game design is not a matter of democracy -- it doesn't matter how much the players want to make something easy, good game design makes some things easy and some things hard. A certain class of players will exploit any weakness in a game system.

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Remembering Tyneetryk
Phaedreas Tears - 15 years old and first(*) of true neutral guilds in Atys.
(*) This statement is contested, but we are certainly the longest lasting.
<clowns | me & you | jokers>

#11 Added by Talkirc 10 years ago [en] 

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who did i check with: #ryzomforge, #ryzomdev nuff said on that i think (since they are the one's that would know and be the one's to make the change)

hmm, again i'll say this: the ONLY players that have any gen mat's over Q10 in silan are old players, meaning older then the merger. 2nd, once those gen mat's are used up, there's no way to get more in silan. i would consider it a very limited life exploit that would cure it's self in short order. tell me what real advantage would those gen mat's really pose in the longer run? (your worrying and making silan an issue, that's why i'm still talking about it. i've already addressed the only long term issue with silan gen mat's)

i agree that we did agree that the gen mat's we can get on dynastic merchants should be items that can be traded. i disagree as to why your making an issue out of a exploit that would end it's self. and i could be wrong but only wreckless toons have gen mat's in bulk. this i'll check since i have toons still in silan that are never played and still level 1 on my two pre merger subbed accounts.

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Remickla (atys)
Other games - they give you a cookie whether you succeed or not, in fact you don't even have to participate. Ryzom takes your cookie, eats it in front of you, and slaps you 2 or 3 times for bringing a cookie in the first place.
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#12 Added by Talkirc 10 years ago [en] 

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OMG really, your worried about 1 stack of mat's on non wreckless toons? (or toons that won prize packs) this really would be an exploit with a very limited lifespan bittty, wouldn't you agree that it would kill it's self out very quickly for those that did?

one could also say that they could make only choice Q50, Q100, Q150, Q200, Q250 gen mat's that can be traded, which would be the ones we buy, but what about christmas tree loot? shouldn't those also fall under the can be traded rule?

i'm trying to agree with you, but i fail to see the worry about a finite amount of mat's that could be traded in silan, and i truely can't see the gains that could be made with a few stacks of mat's in the end. (in silan)

as for the mainland, what good reason could you give me (welcomer missions are one time use only) as to not make all gen mat's Q50 and up traded items?

it feels as though even with your agreement your trying every way you can to prevent the basic idea from becoming a real thing.

Edited 2 times | Last edited by Talkirc (10 years ago) | Reason: added last 3 blocks of txt

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Remickla (atys)
Other games - they give you a cookie whether you succeed or not, in fact you don't even have to participate. Ryzom takes your cookie, eats it in front of you, and slaps you 2 or 3 times for bringing a cookie in the first place.
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#13 Added by Binarabi 10 years ago [en] 

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Disagree - do not want game easier in this respect

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Binarabi
This idea of "I'm offended". Well I've got news for you. I'm offended by a lot of things too. Where do I send my list? Life is offensive. You know what I mean? Just get in touch with your outer adult. (Bill Hicks)

#14 Added by Icus 10 years ago [en] 

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Personally i disagree with the idea because i like the fact that as a fyros-aligned toon (for example), it's harder for me to get tryker/matis generic mats (pretty useful if you want turquoise/green armor with good stats :-P)
Also, if you want to help someone's craft by giving him mats, you can already hunt/buy/dig them :)
i've checked and it's possible to make only Q50 and above tradeable
I assume here you were refering to my answer on #ryzomforge :P
Looking at ryzomforge generics mats, it seems doable, for a certain type of generic mats (ie base/choice generic mats), but not on the quality (all choice generic mats ranging from q1 to q250 share the same property)

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#15 Added by Elvanae 10 years ago [en] 

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What do people feel the difference is between gen mats and sap recharge crystals?

You can get them both in the same ways.

With sap recharge crystals, if you can afford it, you can power level very quickly. Same thing with gen mats. So why is it ok that we can trade sap recharge crystals but not gen mats?

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