IDEAS FOR RYZOM

Disagree atm [It will take some time to study it.. as said by Neama]

I fear, it will exploit the game.. especially the diggers+crafters. People spend their days(years) for getting mats and craft something from it. Gen mats are too powerful and has potential to create masters (craft, ranger...) within few days.

If you ask me, I want 1000's of gen mats stack, even of quality 50. So I wish to make it tradable. But we might see some issues with making gen mats tradable.. Example, a strong guild will take no time to make all of its players MASTER in all crafts with gen mats (which is exploit of game).

We see issues in Xmas tree hunt when some players get gen mats from gift boxes and some don't. We need to provide fair share of gen mats to the teams.. making mats tradable is one of the solution.. but not the best one I think.

fish, the idea is to only make the gen mat's you buy with civ faction points. basic and fine are what we get from xmas trees, and there is no desire to make those traded items, the same with excellent generic mats (rare gift).

i think it would be harder then you think to make anyone a master with gen mat's quickly, a full stack of Q250 gen mat's for someone with 100 civ fame in the land they are buying the gen mat's will cost almost 64,000 points.

NH provides a max of 7200 a day
package runs (done every 8 hours) each allot roughly 5500 to 6000 points

so just for one stack of Q250 gen mat's it would take several days for a single player to do (even with alt's it would take large numbers and time) to attempt to make a master in a single skill

if i recall correctly it took eruv nearly 20,000 mat's to do the last level of a jewel; so that's 20 stacks of Q250 that would cost about 1,280,000 civ faction points for just one level (that would take longer to get then just digging the mats and crafting them would) (even if only 5 stacks it would still cost 320,000 points)

this is no fast road to making masters by any means, things you have to consider for gen mat crafting is the fact that you have to do other things to get the points just to buy the gen mat's.
first you have to do an occupation, that takes time to do either to master the occupation or just to get grade two so that you get the max products a day for NH turn-in

now you have to turn in to NH, at max fame with the civ you turn in at you get 7200 points

you have to repeat that for 9 days to get 1 stack of Q250 gen mat's.

i won't go on too long, but as you can see, it would take time either as a single player, or even as a guild working together to really do anything major (a GH can be filled with mat's for grinding in a very short amount of time, cookies diggers (6 diggers) did it in just a few days time (3 or 4) (you can gain many levels quickly in a craft doing this in the few hours it takes to craft them all off (for low level crafts without overcraft))

ok i've said enough, but i think this would be a nice feature, after all it's the same with cat's and sap crystals, both of those can be used to gain xp faster, and can be traded, why not the choice gen mat's?

Ah.. I read posts of first page and missed some of the important conversation!
Talk, your point is valid. I would like to change the vote now (my voting was a result of insufficient knowledge).

I would also like to see basic, fine, excl gen mats tradable. At least I can buy stacks of q50 gen mats for cheaper rate :D

i'd still like to know if there is the possibility to make gen mat's a traded item, so often players are stuck with gen mat's of a Q they won't use, they can't sell them, can't trade them, and have no personal use of them, so they destroy them, why not make them tradeable?

maybe? yes?

talk

Hey,

This isn't exactly what you asked for, but I actually thought of a use for the generics: mission #2 of toolmaker. Assuming you're grade 1 or 2, you can make weapons of q20 (q40) out of those mats. Even if you're a higher grade, you can make the weapons for a lower-level homin. Products can then be sold to New Horizons.

they are perfect for teaming with new refugees so you can make their stuff for them whilst they get generic bowrifle in Fairhaven - and lots of other things as well

both good points, but i'm thinking more of the players that just destroy Q50 gen mats rather then do either of those options (bina and mj's) further more the players that would just destroy them could give them to those of us that would do as you both suggested.

Also, Rollocks suggested making bullets out of them. Either to leech levels, or to attempt to stun people in pvp (via aim-head).

Obviously, all these are niche uses. Best if those mats were just tradeable :)

I levelled most of my range using q50 gen mats.

yep, more good reasons to make them tradeable.

someone recently mentioned that this would be nice, i thought i'd bump this for them to see it.

fine, basic, choice would be nice if they could be traded.

People have said it would be possible to create a bunch of alts to donate generic materials to others or yourself. That seems a problem.

But maybe we can do something that works for both: How about this:

Make a special "tradeable" generic material type. Let the faction merchants sell this kind, and for applications where it's not meant that the materials should be tradeable (starting mats, mats from the silan training missions, maybe mats from Atysmas/special events, etc), use the old un-tradeable type.

those that mention the alts, don't account for the amount of effort and time would require to use said alts. I know, i've tried it with many alts, if you want to spend 6 hours doing nothing but earning a single stack of 250 mats, more power to you (that's running 8 toons with 100 fame doing a full turn in to NH)

honestly, it's just an excuse when someone goes on about it. the whole thing about silan, it's very limited, and alts would be of no help, given the starter mats are only Q10.

as for the whole thing about merger toons, honestly, it's a finite amount, once they're gone they're gone, silan only has Q1 tools, so you can't craft anything above Q50 in silan anyway.

in all honesty, anyone can create alts and do anything in ryzom, but each alt requires extra time and effort to get fame, skills, occ's, ect. each alt is going to require more and more work, making the whole thing about alts rather pointless in the long run.

but everyone's happy with the status quo, stagnation, no change, no improvement.

i wonder how many Q50 gen mat's will be destroyed this atysmas because the looters of the atysmas trees didn't want anything but Q250 gen-mats.

i'll never stop fighting for this change, but i know i have a better chance of selling ice water in he|| because everyone wants to go on about the if's without really looking at how much work it would require to do what they claim would ruin things.

for those of us with many alts that have tried it, we already know it's just not worth it in the end. i guess they're really afraid someone might flood the market with gen mat gear or something.

anyway, i'll keep trying to get this, but i don't expect it to ever happen (until someone like minded to me buys ryzom and strives for improvements, nay sayers be damned.)

ok i've ranted enough.

talk

ps. look at the poll results, sure seams that more are in favor then not in favor. but who are we but the paying customers?

Talk -- Stop looking at the polls until they have hundreds of votes.  You've got a total of 67 votes in your poll.  That's a small fraction of those who are active in game.  Polls only mean something if they have been carefully selected against a representative fraction of the population (as in political polls) or if they represent a substantial (even if self-selected) fraction of the total population. 

Argue from factual or rational basis, or from simple conviction, but don't point to polls, please.

Experience has shown that if training up alts can get you extra goodies, people will do it.

I didn't realize the alt thing was such a charged topic :/ Let's try this again:

I'm not really sure why generic mats aren't tradeable. But maybe there are important reasons in some cases.

Maybe I'm missing something, but it seems ok for the generic mats from the faction merchants to be tradeable. I would like that, personally. I'm not sure I want to do the faction missions, but it would be nice to get the goodies from them through trade. (cats, crystals are already tradeable.) I'm not sure if this addresses Talk's original concern, though.

So why not make some mats tradeable? I don't know if it's super high priority from what I can see(and I obviously don't see everything, especially as a newer player), but it might not be too difficult.

Make a new "tradeable" generic raw material item based on the old one, and use that in cases when it's ok for the mats to be tradeable. Keep the old untradeable mats in cases where it's better they're not tradeable.