Punishment Declares - IDEAS FOR RYZOM

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#1 Added by Virg 10 years ago [en]

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In the current OP situation that we have, with many people offering fixes etc, these ideas of "punishment declares" are just not helping. Let me just define a few things by what I actually mean here:

A punishment declare (coined) is where a faction or guild attack an OP because of what the owners of that OP have done action or verbal wise.

I am not talking in terms of all punishment declares- but rather one specific type. The type I refer to is when people attack an OP solely later on because that guild attacked them. Now this is different to a counter-declare to happen at the same time and mix things up (which can add a strategic advantage to defending your OP). The declares I am talking about happen later, a recent example being that of the declare on the Outsiders OP. The reason for this being that the Outsiders declare lots on the Kami outposts.

I'm sorry are you being serious? The issue here is that the Outsiders are declaring on outposts?? How many posts/threads/topics have been aimed at increasing the number of OP wars in this game?! Now you want to punish someone for declaring?

With that attitude you are trying to force people to not declare on you- thus reducing the number of OP wars and therefore in my opinion killing the game.

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#2 Added by Marceline 10 years ago Multilingual

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i personally like the outsiders... i enjoyed it when they declared on us... except when half the server came to fight them... that was a bit one sided to say the least.
punishing them, to me, seems stupid and pointless.

+1

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#3 Added by Arugula 10 years ago [en]

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+1

I read in uni today while the "battle" was happening, that the declare was made "To send a message". Well the message received by the weaker factions was don't fight back against Kami domination or we'll take everything. How much fun will Ryzom be with only one faction playing?

Since the developers of the game won't step in and provide some mechanism to help with OP tunovers, it's up to the players to show just a small amount of compassion for their in-game enemies.

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#4 Added by Lacuna 10 years ago [en]

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+1 The Outsiders are lovely and awesome, to boot.

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#5 Added by Seralee 10 years ago [en]

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Hey ...

I wonder, has it ever come to your mind, dear message boy Zatarga, that those OP-clicks, you got so upset about (and I was with The Outsiders on the last two at Monks OP) were made by The Outsiders in good fun? To enjoy an element of the game pretty rare these days, a pvp fight on OP grounds. Did you really feel so threatend by the huge amount of kara/mara players (not even a full team) that you thought, we were seriously gonna take the OP? Sure, why click if you aint gonna try, so try we do/did AND had fun doing so too, but everybody knows, if you click a kami OP they will just role in their bulldozers and take away any attempt of trying to balance the game and have fun. Still, that is what we had .. fun .. and come to think of it, assorted members of your faction did too, I am sure of it and was told so personally.

So, you wished to send those attackers, that tried to have some fun with you included (as former member of Monks of Atys) a message, right? Well guess what!? Message received loud and clear! And do you wanna know which message? Well, as I was there to receive it also, I will tell you what I "heard": I am the most obnoxious player on Atys, dont even TRY to have fun playing this game with me, cause if you do, I WILL make you pay, and all your friends will pay with you.

In my eyes and ears that is pretty pathetic but there you go, enjoy your new OP.

Nuff said,

Seralee

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#6 Added by Triplex 10 years ago [en]

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"to send a message" or "to punish TO" was funny for me, which message that should be? "now we take your op and if you try to get a new one, we will do the same again?" well do that, but nothing will be changed after this lost op^^
ok one thing, kara lost armilo, my fault but shit happens, maybe kara lose all in future, maybe kami, possible but doesnt matter for my guild, because we can have fun and fight without mat like that^^

war declares in future will be the same, so everybody can send messages if they feel better after that, for my guild it doesnt matter, for faction maybe.

we got tickets for declaring wars with arguments like..."because they dont have a chance to hold an op" maybe we dont have a chance, but without try nobody can know that before^^
thats why i laughing about tickets like that....everybody who want to send messages or tickets against us....do that, if we want to declare we will do and no ticket or message can change that because its not against the rules to declare wars.

#7 Added by Virg 10 years ago [en]

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The fact you got ticketted is just shocking..

Those who sent them in clearly have just become greedy, wanting to hold onto their mats without realising OPs are supposed to generate fun.

*Shakes my head*

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#8 Added by Bambamseven 10 years ago [en]

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no RP needs to lead to real negativity. TO declare wars for the sake of fun. I also greatly appreciate their presence at "handover" OP wars (such as my own) for they provided some fun. We need to stimulate more OP action and refrain from behavior that discourages it. Thank you TO for not letting this change the fun you bring to the game :)
+1 for the topic

BB7

#9 Added by Agan 10 years ago Multilingual

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Thxs alot Virg for the great post bravo:)) it means alot for all of us. TO never change pls:))

Zata we loved your message thxs alot for it.

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#10 Added by Talkirc 10 years ago [en]

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i like to play ryzom. i like to have fun. OP's are for fun.

yet one more reason the mat's they produce should also be something that can be bought, for several reasons:

1. OP's are reduced to a part of the pvp fun of the game (owning one isn't the ONLY way a faction or guild can get the "special" mat's if they can be bought {i say faction because sharing with those that support your op's defense is only fair})

2. balance would be universal for everyone if they can be bought, vs only being able to get them via reasons in statement #1

3. no reason for anyone to complain about who owns this or that, who declares on this or that, or fight about how, when, why, and/or who is doing this or that.

4. see reason number 2 again, since that is the biggest reason i'm in support of being able to buy "special" mat's (they could be sold at the special civ merchants for civ faction points, kami mat's sold in kami lands, kara mat's sold in kara lands. pretty simple in my opinion)

i say all of this from the point of view that ryzom is supposed to be a SANDBOX game, well then everything should be fairly balanced with features like this. if you want to brag about power, don't do it because you have this or that and the other guy can't, brag because your better at playing on truly equal ground.

these are my personal feelings here, and in the efforts of fairness to EVERYONE ON EVERYSIDE i say these things.

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#11 Added by Mjollren 10 years ago [en]

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Virg, one thought and I'm out : a lot of Outsiders declares were pretty much troll ones. With only two people, one can barely win Phase 1 (if they get lucky with their bomb enchants) - and they surely can't defend their guards in Phase 2, losing the OP again.

So, what's the point of spamming this type of attack, with no support from other karas? You keep a lot of people busy, each time, for 2 hours, in a battle you can't ultimately win. Personally I think this is very close to harassment, but I'm not the one to spam tickets ;)

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#12 Added by Neela 10 years ago Multilingual

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My 2 dappers from the outside (i.e. I don't PvP)....

If you own an OP you have to expect to get declared against, surely that's the point of them. To my knowledge, there's no rule against a guild trying to own an OP and no rule that says they can't keep trying by declaring against different OPs until they win one. There's also no rule that says a guild can't own (or try to own) more than one OP. With all that in mind, I don't see that anyone can say The Outsiders have done anything wrong; unless they're saying you can PvP but only on my terms?

On the other hand, if you attack other guilds, you have to expect to get hit back at some point if you manage to win an OP. Again you can't PvP on your own terms; if someone wants to retaliate against your attacks then you best make sure you're able to defend yourself!

Now I'm told PvP is fun (personally I don't find it so), but it seems to me that if you have a problem with either side of this 'issue' then you've missed the point. Some people seem to have forgotten that this is a game.

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Other games - they give you a cookie whether you succeed or not, in fact you don't even have to participate. Ryzom takes your cookie, eats it in front of you, and slaps you 2 or 3 times for bringing a cookie in the first place.

#13 Added by Triplex 10 years ago [en]

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Mjollren (atys)

and they surely can't defend their guards in Phase 2, losing the OP again.

how can you 100% say that we cant hold the op in phase 2? there are 2 options for phase 2 not just that one you think

first, you think we would defend the op with only our guild, than you´re right, we would lose the battle

second, we would defend the op with support from other kara

#14 Added by Virg 10 years ago [en]

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MJ its a little thing called having fun.

People don't have to attend if they don't want to. Hell if you don't enjoy OP wars whats the point in going? Sure its a source of mats but there are other ways to get the mats. I don't enjoy digging so I don't dig. Simple.

I think you missed the point of the thread Neela- which is that punishing people for attacking an OP and attempting to give a message of "don't attack us or else" is just going to kill OP wars even more. I have seen many Kami propose different ideas of how to increase the number of OP wars so I have no idea why they support this kind of behavior, its really just pathetic and greedy at the end of the day.

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#15 Added by Elvanae 10 years ago [en]

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For those of you who were not present to witness the talks which took place on universe chat at the beginning of the battle, I have addressed it in the RP forums and take the liberty to paste it on here also so more people are aware of the reason why this discussion was instigated.

I initially thought not to post on this thread but what saddened me deeply was being informed that Karas could possibly face yet another "punishment declare" because I spoke up.

The discussion here is not to discuss TO's actions but it is about so-called "punishment declares" which are usually dealt out by the more powerful faction, why? Simply because they can.

I don't see the point of players arguing that they declared on Q200 Armilo because of TO's actions. Are you the rule makers now? Or were you unhappy with the decisions from your tickets about TO that you feel you can take it upon yourself to punish people?

Elvanae (atys)

[OOC] This my first attempt at a RP post so please be understanding of that [/OOC]

Many of you may not know me but some of you may know I am the guild leader of Armageddons which is a Karavan guild based in Yrkanis. I must admit that I have sometimes explored the lives of the RPers on this section of the forum and indeed thoroughly enjoyed it and contemplated bringing Elvanae here one day.

*hesitates*

When I contemplated this idea, I didn't anticipate I would come with this very concerning and distressing issue that I want to raise to all Atysians.

Earlier today an outpost battle took place. A Kami guild which I believe is called "The Dogs of War" declared on the Karavan guild "The Outsiders" with respect to the Q200 Armilo outpost in Enchanted Isle, Lakes.

Upon attending the outpost to participate in the battle, I was shocked to see a great deal of Kami who had attended to fight for the OP. Indeed, it was interesting to note that there were also Kami who were fighting alongside us to defend it.

The curious Matis that I am, I took it upon myself to pose a question to the Kami.

*Whilst I lay dead with sand smeared over my face, I mustered all my strength and shouted loudly for all to hear: "Why are the Kamis attacking one of the few Q200 OPs we have?"*

What followed from my very innocent question were numerous comments from Kami followers which deeply shocked me.

The answer to my question was "TO is getting a message".

Is THIS the kind of reason we all want to be told when our OPs are declared upon?

Do we have to watch what we say and what we do because if we do not, we risk the wrath of these Kami guild leaders who can take it all away from us?

I like to think that the majority of us on Atys are not so cruel and have learned from our agonizing past to have respect for each-other and not allow the weak to be crushed.

Yes, I am a Matis and I am ashamed of our past behaviour towards the Trykers. I was born into this world with self-confidence and self-assurance but not with the desire to supress those who are weaker and not allow them the chance to advance and go so far as to take it upon myself to punish them when they try. Indeed, I am married to a Tryker who saw first-hand the darkness brewing in the souls of some of the Kami. Luckily, he and his guild left the Kami before it was too late.

*sigh in sorrow*

I cannot possibly accept that all Kami followers want to suppress weeker homins. I know many of them to be approachable and kind homins who fight only to keep what they have. Even more troubling, I have heard whispers of blood-thirsty Kami followers who even now wish to punish all the Karavan for the question I posed to them by declaring on the only Q250 OP that the Karavan hold and which is an OP currently held by Spiritus Artificis and not my guild.

I am approaching you all, Kami, Karavan, Neutral, Marauder, Trytonist, Rangers, whatever your calling, to rise up against these vile acts and condone this appauling behaviour.

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good homins to do nothing." Edimyndi Byrki.

[OOC]
One is free to declare upon outposts with the aim to own it and the OP mats it produces. This is undeniable. What I will not accept is that a guild can declare upon another guild simply to punish them and send them a message. And when someone makes enquiries, certain Kami players want to continue on their rampage of punishing.

This role play post stems from a discussion which took place on Universe channel.
[OOC]

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