IDEAS FOR RYZOM

dao: i personally can log in 4 accounts at ONE time, hit my boss macro on each one, and log them back out in less then 3 minutes.
as for how long it takes to load and all that, it really doesn't matter about load times, with a powerful computer you can have clients waiting for the click in the background (have 32 clients running waiting for the "log-in" click), and if each client is a different account, the 30 seconds we're forced to be online even after a "quit now" doesn't apply to the speed that we can connect the next set of accounts. (note i tested this with 4 freshly made silan accounts that i made in less then 3 min, and it only took me about 5 minutes to get them to the mainland. they don't have to level skills, there's a real toon someone's playing waiting to escort them to the correct spot.)

it's likely that someone that's truely dedicated to camping would have an account for each one of the campers. and those are things your not accounting for. there are far to many unknowns to prove much of anything about camping or what campers think of as the best way (it's my hope that i didn't just give any of them a new idea).

however, as i've said, more spawn locations, perhaps a more random system of selecting the random time before respawn. (the merchant idea is still valid as well, since that would be the only true way to give everyone an equal chance at the best gears)

Block F2p from PR and q250?

Talk: That is exactly my point: I do not rule out the technical feasability. Yet, to do that effectively, one has to rely to botting, otherwise it is ways more tiresome to log in, scan, and log out tens of low level campers, assess the results, and alert boss fighters. If one engages in such foolish and dishonorable business, it will be extremely exhausting to cover a significant number of boss spots.

Every good scouter will scan a region in nearly the same time it takes to log in campers at every spot. AoI can be done in 1-3 minutes, campers won't have scanned half of the spots at the same time. Moreover, the scout would be the first valiant fighter of the boss hunting team, while the camper has to disappear.

In addition, to accomplish that, every camping has the odor of cheating and is frowned upon, does not add anything to skill and experience while scouting, even if not always successful, is fun and a reward in itself. Even if practised, camping is a self defeating activity, and all excitement about is in vain.

Edit:Fine. We are talking about 40 spots ca. in 250 regions, no less in 200 regions where several "valuable" bosses dwell. So you need a full hour to spot them all. A good scout runs all of them in less time, with less stress, and more satisfaction as (s)he is not cheating.

i agree with you dao: those of us that scout and hunt (myself included) get a true sense of reward. i only wanted to offer a thought about speed which it can be done.

pappa: no i don't think blocking f2p's from pr or 250 zones is a good idea, i have a very nice and friendly f2p guild member that i've been taking with on hunting runs through 250 and some of pr, where he's had alot of fun, it might even promote him subbing up, he would miss out on a lot of fun if pr and 250's were blocked to him.

let's all agree that this thread isn't the proper place to keep this going, so the thread doesn't get way off track.

i'm all for more spawn points, even more random times.

Regarding "boss timers", i'll just tell you my most recent experience:

Killed a 270 boss last night, in a bad aggro region, in a team of 6 people. It took us so long (at least 1h) because there was just so much aggro + 3 kp's constantly roaming the area... Not a single scout went in region during the whole time, if someone had they would have found the boss.

So i fail to see the issue you have with timing.. Its common knowledge bosses have a timeframe for spawning, be it 2-4 or 2-5 days... Of course if you know a boss was just killed you won't go scouting for it, the same way you won't look for a named that was just killed or a sup spot thats been dug.

Honestly I feel people are just complaining when they put next to no effort into it.. If you want it.. scout for it.

As for "log in campers", I know they exist, but very often scouting wins over camping.. I've encountered myself in multiple ocasions where the alt logs and finds the boss, yet the scout + team are already there so there isn't much left for the alt to do :)

In all cases this is just my perspective and I hope it doesn't offend anyone :)

I think the frustration here that many peeps are feeling is due to a different mindset. When Boss Hunting was a true "scouting mission", many peeps invested the time as well as they did in sitting and waiting for SNs to pop. Pre-merge however, after a time, there was less inclination for guilds to go back and score the same bosses over and over gain. This was true even to the extent that once a Boss was killed, that group had a real solid advantage over everyone else.

The change to "random" locations was a good one but as we know, the locations are not really random. There's just about twice as many places to look and the change that it might be a different one than ya had hoped for at a given spot. I have stopped bothering chasing them as I don't find it worth the effort. Several times I have been in small teams taking on the boss / named barely standing up with me the tank and healer keeping me up when after a decent amount of time, have some peeps stroll by and nuke the crap out of it from a distance.

But when I did do it regularly (pre-merge) , I found the times, just like the locations, were not really "random"....just like random locations meant 1 of a few possibilities, I found (unless we were just extremely lucky), that the supposedly random times were just 1 among a few possibilities.

But the biggest change is, at one time a guild or group of friends with a certain amount of hi level active members got to the point where all the regulars had their set of HA, a few chosen weaps and were satisfied with that. That opened the possibility that others could get their shot. With fewer peeps chasing, others could actually get home from work and find a few still standing.

In the waning months of the separate servers, I spent a good amount of time at the SNs and more often than not Bina and I were the only ones there. It wasn't that the player base wasn't there, it was that most peeps had a full wardrobe and weapons stash and didn't **need** it. I was working on rubbarn boosted HA sets and other things for player event prizes so I was coming back every season for quite a while....4-5000 sups takes some time :). Several other players also dug and donated mats to the effort.

It would seem that "getting what ya need" is as much of a motivation as keeping it away from others. So in the past, where guilds or groups of friends with limited time availability would eventually "get their shot" after a time, that opportunity is not coming to pass now and I think that's where the frustration is coming from.

Yes certainly the fruits of the time investment at SNs and boss spots should go to those that put in the time and effort, but the question ya gotta ask yaself is "do any of us really **need** a GH full of premium mats that we currently have no immediate use for ?" or would the game benefit from making the choice and saying "I have enough for now, let someone else have a chance ? How fun is Atys going to be when portions of our player base figure they have accomplished all they can and just move onto something else ?

Trouble is, you rarely have an immediate need, and once you do have it, you'd better have some stocks or you're facing a really awful amount of work. "We have enough supreme zun" is something that said no-one ever...

Not sure what the CoC looked like before the merger, but now whoever pulls the boss is actually entitled an attempt to kill - with a few common sense restrictions like "don't pull a q220 if you're solo". So at least from that point of view, scouting is worth the time.

Killing a guard is seen as engaging battle - so take a screenie as soon as you kill Guard and also take a screenie of the ones stealing it

On the other hand I heard that Lacuna and Spetty had bosses stolen from them and nothing was done about it ...

Your taking what I'm saying beynd the intent. I'm not saying leave yaself short so that the next guildie who masters you won't be able to outfit them..... I''m saying there's no need to keep enough stock to ourtfit the next 32 of them. By all means keep 40 or so Zun for those that wear out or get their 1st master. But when you get to the point where ya have spare guild halls full of sup mats; ya way past the **need** part.

The event was post merge and peeps were same faction.

We said it every Season Change and Reset in LG, but we would still dig it out of spite if we were bored.

I would like to agree with Freddy, but getting sups has never been that hard in my experience.  It took me 6 months to dig my personal goal of 1000 zun solo. Yap that is a lot, but I liked digging and I wanted to try for a 100 rubbarn amp run. For a while I was giving away a lot of sups free over kami chat, but abuse for doing so, and a lack of reciprocity make me think... meh. I love your philosophy, Freddy, but one of the main reasons people have stock piles is that there are very few players. And, in my experience, very few of them had the patience to enjoy PR, apart from the rush at resets and season change. *Looks at Binarabi*  It's not simply a matter of certain players stopping others getting them, but that many players do not try.

Lac is so right - it really really bores me to death stood waiting for weather to change - yack yack!

And I remember you giving away sups in your early days - some homins are just so weird - bet some of those falming you were the very ones that benefitted - do you think it is a zeitgeist thing - this sort of rp fascism??

Anyhow - all matis males should die - oh, except for Azad ofc! Take masses of care Lac :))

Hard ... defined how ? Hard as in difficult to do or hard as not being able to afford the time investment ? I don't bother much myself .... in no rush to get anything and try and spend the time I have in game more productively. I have no problem with KP or weather, though I think now having weather where ya can't dig choice, exe or sup was a bad step. I'd hate to have to master PR this way.

I find I can travel just about anywhere and do whatever I want to do with 80% amps and choice gear. I have had every NPC Armor set pre-merge and the idea of say killing Pei Ruiz 45 times to get it again holds no real draw to me. Same for boss mats.

For others to, I can sympathize and I listen to comments as to why they are not playing. It must be recognized that there is a definitive advantage to certain time zones and those w/o outside obligations. If peeps can afford to spend say 15 hours a week in game..... spending 2/3 of that "waiting" to dig a node or find a boss is a buzzkill. Argue if you will that those willing to make the time investment deserve more but let's not forget that these peeps are paying the same subscription fee that keeps the game afloat and each person who leaves game reduces the game's long term viability.

Circling 6 possible locations and waiting for that specific boss that one needs to complete their NPC set ... or waiting for PR weather, and as soon as it arrives you get chased off by KP and before weather comes back ya gotta log because you generally only have 2-3 hours between work, chores and family obligations ... it's not made any easier for those folks who never seen a boss, know where the spawn locations are or found the post which leveling the playing filed by publically mapping them. Lac did the same helping to level the playing field with much of the PR rules.

Some other observations....

.... lots of comments about "finding a boss" .... I do see bosses often enough .... but 95% of the time it's the ones that are killed just for fun, not for mats. If you killed it, you own it [if you really want it] applies.

.....since merge, I have been on for one reset..... at 4 am.

.... with the holiday season here, work gets kinda slow and had flu / vacation so I have had more time..... I been digging next to one boss spot for last 4 weeks (5+ hours weekdays, as much as double that on weekends) , ... not seen it pop once.

I don't understand the "few players = stockpiling" link..... again we saw what stockpiling results in pre-merge .... grinding jools with zup zun....for days. For about 9 months pre-merge, Bina and I were oft alone at SN's.... we'd grab what we could thru one weather cycle or full bag and leave.

I routinely have given away sups and boss mats if i didn't have an immediate need .... remember once being asked for mada skin and as I had been away from game for a few months, couldn't remember why i was saving them.... so gave them away..... then I remembered :) .... but others stepped in and I was soon back where I was.

One of my 1st post merge PR experiences was being caught in the middle "or so I was told" of two factions contesting who was going to dig a node in Wastelands. Initially I watched compass as peeps changed direction as soon as my dot must have appeared on their compass and "accidentally" picked up aggro as they were passing my location. As the two groups PvP'd around me on the Shu node, I was continually dragged upon, the thought I guess being that once weather changed, I might dig the sups out while they were killing each other and there'd be nothing left to fight over. The odd thing is, I was just looking for choice, so I could get a 165 focus boost set. m IF sup had popped and i dug it, I would have gladly given 2/3 of it away.

As far as "digging for spite", that's a concept I simply can not understand.

It should be hard to find bosses and to get hands on the best mats ..... but "digging / killing for spite" and "digging / killing for the sole reason to make sure that others don't have them", is not the type of behavior that earned Ryzom all those "Best Community" accolades over the years. That's the only part I take issue with.