Question aux travailleurs de l'ombre : quid des maraudeurs dans des guildes de faction - Français

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#55 Added by Osquallo 10 years ago [fr]

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"but i won't start the mara's troll" does not mean"your are a troll".

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Osquallo
Les rêveries du yubo flaneur
The musings of the rambling yubo

#56 Added by Arugula 10 years ago [fr]

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It strongly implies it and definitely exposes your bias to players who don't use the same tp's as you.

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#57 Added by Ingfarah 10 years ago [fr]

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I read it all.

It was still said. And moderating it right after won't change the fact that it's been said. And that it is thought by you that there is less roleplay among the neutrals. Unless you take back "not all" and replace it by "all" by "more" in your answer to Bitty?

I did explode in laughter because that particular comment did deserve my laughter. Even after being ammended. There is not less roleplay among the neutrals. Some would argue that there is more, and that it's deeper and richer. So you got no choice but to accept my laughter, because my belief is that your comment DID deserve it.

#58 Added by Arugula 10 years ago [fr]

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well, ty for taking time out of your day to laugh at my mistep and completely miss the point I was trying to make.

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#59 Added by Ingfarah 10 years ago [en]

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I guess I should say thank you. :D
I think I understood your point perfectly. Which is that exploits of the system should be passed by for lack of a big enough player base.
I agree this particular one is not as big as others. And I don't believe it's a priority. But it's still just the same as if a Kami could join a Kara guild.

So someday it may be corrected because it's a bug. Maybe someday there will be little enough bugs for this one to get corrected. Just like someday, level 250 or so PvP jewells made of lower level mats and degraded boosted weapons may stop being so common because they will have fixed a pair of bugs.

The point I'm making here, if anybody's still interested, is this one: wether or not this is to become a priority is in the hands of the Ryzom team. However much anybody wants to "defend" the ones using that bug is totally pointless. It will still be a bug. So if they fix it, they'll fix it. If they don't, they won't. And every debate about it is just sterile. So why not have a good laugh?

#60 Added by Arugula 10 years ago [fr]

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Exploits? Bugs?

When I open my fame window, it says:
"Civilisation allegiance: Neutral"
"Cult allegiance: neutral"

I'm sorry, but as it stands, marauder, in the eyes of whoever is in charge of runs this game means neutral of faction and neutral of civilization. If civ and cult neutrals are free to join any guild that INVITES them, then why is there a problem? Marauder, on my Fame window shows under "organization" not faction, as I assume, so does "Ranger" or "Trytonist"? If we are all "cult Neutral" then why is it a bug to belong to a cult aligned guild which can allow neutrals?

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#61 Added by Ingfarah 10 years ago [fr]

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That is the bug, Aru.

You read it all there;

Marauders are not neutrals. THAT is the bug. And that is not open to debates. They are not neutrals.

And yes, I do believe Rangers should eventually be able to join only ranger guilds, if you wonder that. But just like the marauders, the faction isn't complete (it's even way farther from completion). As it develop, it may end up differently.

But marauders are anti-everything. And anti-everything means that marauders in a faction guild are sharing a guild with ennemies of their faction. Simple enough logic.

So yes, the game lets it happen. But it's not us who will decide when it's fixed. But when it happens, it will still be bug fixing and not a result of any argument going on in here about how legit it is.

So I do agree it's not a priority, but it's still a bug and not open to argument -unless you really want to argue on just nothing worth arguing.

#62 Added by Bitttymacod 10 years ago [fr]

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Ingfarah, why do you say that Rangers (once there are Rangers) should only be allowed to join Ranger guilds? Any neutral guild should be agreeable to both having a Ranger in it and agreeable to the Ranger. I'm not at all sure that there is going to be the possibility of aligning an entire guild to Ranger.

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Remembering Tyneetryk
Phaedreas Tears - 15 years old and first(*) of true neutral guilds in Atys.
(*) This statement is contested, but we are certainly the longest lasting.
<clowns | me & you | jokers>

#63 Added by Arugula 10 years ago [fr]

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Why is that a bug? because it offends your interpretation of Role play? Only positive fame equals neutral? When I took the Marauder rite, the NPC made it clear that I was bound by no laws except that of my own guild, not any government, not any religion.....neutral.

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#64 Added by Virg 10 years ago [fr]

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Ingfarah.... Just on my way out but with the logic that you are arguing and your definition of neutral- nobody with above +25 fames or below -25 fames are neutrals. I am sure Bittty would disagree this with you.

I believe that in context of the shift+f tab the definition of 'neutral' means not aligned. In this case Marauders are neutral as they are an organization.

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#65 Added by Ingfarah 10 years ago [fr]

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Virg: I'm talking about logic, not sophistry.A neutral''s fames are bound to be 50 or under with no floor. Once you've taken Kami/Kara/Nation rite, one of your fames can go to 100 and another one can't go over 0. I believe you and I both know that a marauder's fame can't go over 0 and that marauders passed a rite.

Aru: it is a bug because it is a bug. Not because it offends my sense of roleplay. Ask a dev. If I'm wrong, let the dev answer here. At the second one of them says I'm wrong with that, then this post has no meaning anymore and it becomes a matter of roleplay (and believe it or not, I'm pretty sure this post wasn't supposed to be about choices in roleplay).

Bitty: If Rangers are to become a faction (like Kami, Karas and Marauders), then the same rules should apply to them as to the other factions. The Ranger faction, though, is not yet in existence, so my opinion here is just an opinion. For the marauder faction, it's a fact on which I MAY be wrong. But you just have to ask the question.

#66 Added by Virg 10 years ago [fr]

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It is semantics and a matter of opinion :) The thing to realize is that many have different opinions and different ways of looking at things.

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Guild Leader of Syndicate
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#67 Added by Bitttymacod 10 years ago [en]

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Ingfarah, Virg --

Yes, as has been clear from my previous comments, I would disagree that +50 across the board is not neutral. Remember that Fame is not so much how a homin regards the Nation or Civilisation, but how they regard him or her. Neutral means that we don't take sides between the PTBs.

In a war a "neutral nation" is one that is not at war. Correspondingly a "neutral homin" is one who does not attack any of the nations (or Powers), but is regarded as a friend by all.

Ingfarah: The Rangers will never be a true Faction in the game sense: they can't be. They are an organization, just as the Marauders are an organization. However, no homin with sense would invite a sworn enemy of his Nation or Religion into his household, but to invite a friend? That is just common sense. In game terms, an un-aligned ("neutral") guild would be ideal to invite Rangers into, but an aligned guild might do so as well.

If the question hinges too much for too many people on the use of the word "neutral" getting confused between a gameplay term and common English usage, then I reluctantly suggest the term "positive" for the fame looked for in a Ranger applicant. I am reluctant since I see no reason not to use "neutral".

Last edited by Bitttymacod (10 years ago)

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#68 Added by Tamarea 10 years ago [en]

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When the marauder rite has been added, there was not any specific "marauder fame": the Marauders were recognized by their all very negative fames only and not by a specific marauder positive one. This has caused problems with the marauder guards, who didn't recognized the Marauders so didn't defended them. Since then, the gameplay has been changed and a specific Marauders positive fame has been added: any Marauder has got a >50 Marauder fame now. That's the reason why the marauder guards protect Marauders now: they check their Marauder fame.

The old system (Marauder = all negative fames and not = marauder fame>50) is also the reason why there still have a "bug" with the guilds, who don't check the new "marauder fame" for the moment so don't recognize a Marauder and only see him as a factions-neutral and civilizations-neutral. This has to be fixed. A Marauder shouldn't be able to join a non marauder guild, as a Kara homin can't join a Kami one or a Fyros homin can't join a Matis one.

This old system (Marauder = all negative fames and not = marauder fame>50) causes also a technical problem with the forums: Marauders should not have access to "Factions-neutrals" forum neither to "Civilization-neutrals" one because they are not neutrals, they are "Marauders". This will have to be fixed too.

Last edited by Cerulean (10 years ago)

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Tamarea
Ryzom Team Manager
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tamarea@ryzom.com

#69 Added by Binarabi 10 years ago [en]

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I am probably in the only guild that is affected by this - thanks a bunch, eh, enjoy "your" game

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Binarabi
This idea of "I'm offended". Well I've got news for you. I'm offended by a lot of things too. Where do I send my list? Life is offensive. You know what I mean? Just get in touch with your outer adult. (Bill Hicks)

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