Question aux travailleurs de l'ombre : quid des maraudeurs dans des guildes de faction - Français

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#51 Added by Bitttymacod 10 years ago [en]

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Arugula?

Arugula

If a guild is indeed neutral, which essentially means they don't role play, why couldn't they invite anyone they wanted?

I don't see how that follows. I can easily imagine a neutral guild that is strong on Roleplay, whether it is Trytonist or Ranger. (In terms of roleplay, a Marauder guild is not neutral in my opinion.) Such a guild would not invite people who could not uphold its ideals, which would mean national patriots or religious adherents, simply because those people could not be neutral in roleplay terms.

I belong to a neutral guild. Phaedrea's Tears is a true neutral guild. We don't have "Kami/Karavan for tps". It is true that the guild per se is not a roleplay guild, but some of us very definitely do roleplay, and I maintain that in our determination to be truly neutral, all of us do a tiny bit of roleplay.

Having said that, I agree with most of what you said. The game needs to encourage players at ALL levels of roleplay from intense down to none. It also needs to have a truce. The non-roleplaying(HRP) players need to give the roleplayers(RP) room to do their thing -- it is not a right of HRP players to attend every roleplay event regardless of their game status. In return, the RP players need to stop writing and speaking as if HRP players were destroying the game -- by the very act of playing, they are helping the game.

A friend of mine has a saying: "The best should not be the enemy of the good." He applies it to an historical recreation group. I feel it applies here as well.

With respect,
Mac'Od Bittty
Tryker Ranger Aspirant

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Remembering Tyneetryk
Phaedreas Tears - 15 years old and first(*) of true neutral guilds in Atys.
(*) This statement is contested, but we are certainly the longest lasting.
<clowns | me & you | jokers>

#52 Added by Arugula 10 years ago [fr]

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Thanks Virg, I like you too : )

Sorry Bittty, it wasn't my intention to imply all neutral guilds are devoid of Role Play. I know you role play and I applaud you for it, and hope it's delightfully fun for anyone who does.

I don't expect to be involved in every event that comes along, I respect the nature of what they are doing and frankly most of them, I'm not even interested in. When I first came to Zora, I sat in on one of the government meetings just to see what it was all about, and anyone who can sit for that long "listening" to it without feeling the urge to intentionally fall on their weapon and end it all, has my respect.

I recently asked for clarification of the use of "Neutral of Civilization" in Zendae's thread about the upcoming melee tournament because that would be an event I think would be fun. I thought in my coment I was very clear that I thought it was a great idea and would like to come watch even if I couldn't participate. I was immediately called a troll by one and basically told to sit down and shut up by 2 people who have never had one single interaction with me in game. Is asking "Can I play too?" really that harmful to some players' imagined journey here in Atys, that basic politeness is thrown out a window?

/bow

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#53 Added by Ingfarah 10 years ago [en]

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Did I really read that neutrals don't role play???

LOL!

Ok... I'll pass on that one.

LOL!
LOL!
LOL!

#54 Added by Arugula 10 years ago [fr]

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Et tu, Ingfarah?

Maybe if you read a bit further...

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#55 Added by Osquallo 10 years ago [fr]

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"but i won't start the mara's troll" does not mean"your are a troll".

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Osquallo
Les rêveries du yubo flaneur
The musings of the rambling yubo

#56 Added by Arugula 10 years ago [fr]

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It strongly implies it and definitely exposes your bias to players who don't use the same tp's as you.

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#57 Added by Ingfarah 10 years ago [fr]

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I read it all.

It was still said. And moderating it right after won't change the fact that it's been said. And that it is thought by you that there is less roleplay among the neutrals. Unless you take back "not all" and replace it by "all" by "more" in your answer to Bitty?

I did explode in laughter because that particular comment did deserve my laughter. Even after being ammended. There is not less roleplay among the neutrals. Some would argue that there is more, and that it's deeper and richer. So you got no choice but to accept my laughter, because my belief is that your comment DID deserve it.

#58 Added by Arugula 10 years ago [fr]

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well, ty for taking time out of your day to laugh at my mistep and completely miss the point I was trying to make.

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#59 Added by Ingfarah 10 years ago [en]

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I guess I should say thank you. :D
I think I understood your point perfectly. Which is that exploits of the system should be passed by for lack of a big enough player base.
I agree this particular one is not as big as others. And I don't believe it's a priority. But it's still just the same as if a Kami could join a Kara guild.

So someday it may be corrected because it's a bug. Maybe someday there will be little enough bugs for this one to get corrected. Just like someday, level 250 or so PvP jewells made of lower level mats and degraded boosted weapons may stop being so common because they will have fixed a pair of bugs.

The point I'm making here, if anybody's still interested, is this one: wether or not this is to become a priority is in the hands of the Ryzom team. However much anybody wants to "defend" the ones using that bug is totally pointless. It will still be a bug. So if they fix it, they'll fix it. If they don't, they won't. And every debate about it is just sterile. So why not have a good laugh?

#60 Added by Arugula 10 years ago [fr]

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Exploits? Bugs?

When I open my fame window, it says:
"Civilisation allegiance: Neutral"
"Cult allegiance: neutral"

I'm sorry, but as it stands, marauder, in the eyes of whoever is in charge of runs this game means neutral of faction and neutral of civilization. If civ and cult neutrals are free to join any guild that INVITES them, then why is there a problem? Marauder, on my Fame window shows under "organization" not faction, as I assume, so does "Ranger" or "Trytonist"? If we are all "cult Neutral" then why is it a bug to belong to a cult aligned guild which can allow neutrals?

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#61 Added by Ingfarah 10 years ago [fr]

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That is the bug, Aru.

You read it all there;

Marauders are not neutrals. THAT is the bug. And that is not open to debates. They are not neutrals.

And yes, I do believe Rangers should eventually be able to join only ranger guilds, if you wonder that. But just like the marauders, the faction isn't complete (it's even way farther from completion). As it develop, it may end up differently.

But marauders are anti-everything. And anti-everything means that marauders in a faction guild are sharing a guild with ennemies of their faction. Simple enough logic.

So yes, the game lets it happen. But it's not us who will decide when it's fixed. But when it happens, it will still be bug fixing and not a result of any argument going on in here about how legit it is.

So I do agree it's not a priority, but it's still a bug and not open to argument -unless you really want to argue on just nothing worth arguing.

#62 Added by Bitttymacod 10 years ago [fr]

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Ingfarah, why do you say that Rangers (once there are Rangers) should only be allowed to join Ranger guilds? Any neutral guild should be agreeable to both having a Ranger in it and agreeable to the Ranger. I'm not at all sure that there is going to be the possibility of aligning an entire guild to Ranger.

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#63 Added by Arugula 10 years ago [fr]

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Why is that a bug? because it offends your interpretation of Role play? Only positive fame equals neutral? When I took the Marauder rite, the NPC made it clear that I was bound by no laws except that of my own guild, not any government, not any religion.....neutral.

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#64 Added by Virg 10 years ago [fr]

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Ingfarah.... Just on my way out but with the logic that you are arguing and your definition of neutral- nobody with above +25 fames or below -25 fames are neutrals. I am sure Bittty would disagree this with you.

I believe that in context of the shift+f tab the definition of 'neutral' means not aligned. In this case Marauders are neutral as they are an organization.

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#65 Added by Ingfarah 10 years ago [fr]

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Virg: I'm talking about logic, not sophistry.A neutral''s fames are bound to be 50 or under with no floor. Once you've taken Kami/Kara/Nation rite, one of your fames can go to 100 and another one can't go over 0. I believe you and I both know that a marauder's fame can't go over 0 and that marauders passed a rite.

Aru: it is a bug because it is a bug. Not because it offends my sense of roleplay. Ask a dev. If I'm wrong, let the dev answer here. At the second one of them says I'm wrong with that, then this post has no meaning anymore and it becomes a matter of roleplay (and believe it or not, I'm pretty sure this post wasn't supposed to be about choices in roleplay).

Bitty: If Rangers are to become a faction (like Kami, Karas and Marauders), then the same rules should apply to them as to the other factions. The Ranger faction, though, is not yet in existence, so my opinion here is just an opinion. For the marauder faction, it's a fact on which I MAY be wrong. But you just have to ask the question.

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