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Despite the incredible prick Virg is, we should note he is right at that -- outposts are, by their nature, pvp. If you suck at pvp you suck at outposts, the two are tied. Now, there are multiple variables in pvp, but I would shorten the list to : a) gear, b) skill, c) teamwork.

Marauders own no outpost but they still show up regularly at supernodes, sometimes managing good battles (and when they aggro drag, they actually win); what they dramatically lack is numbers, but they compensate with the other two points. If kami numbers are low at one particular season change, maras kick butt.

Karavan sucks at investing time in the game, or maybe at investing time in stuff that matters. You rarely see karavan (teams) hunting nameds, or scouting for bosses, or digging in PR. Granted, one poor alt can't know everything :p but I think I'm close to the truth when I say kami invests more time. Just put an alt in their guilds and you'll see what I mean.

I still stand by my initial idea, though : should the karas start giving an actual rat's ass about their members, they are still outnumbered and past the tipping point at that. To extend on what the other camper says, a kami heal pod is a formidable tool simply by the crapload of OP mats they already have in their amps, just as an example. Add slightly better stats on gear and you have a disheartening situation.

In short ... devs are stupid allowing one faction to go past a tipping point.

oh, and @Soulfyn:

We can't compare with other games. In Ryzom it takes weeks to reach the bare minimum masteries to become really useful (heal, ele, one melee). New players are trickling in slower than in other games, and subbed ones are really rare. Very difficult to grow your numbers, also considering most of them prefer joining the winning side :)

maras do own an op at the moment

GoS as in me??
Actually I keep saying Asylum should just say "suck-it-up we are who we are"

Think Kami were when I started - then Nitrouss and a load of others left game, then we were down to about 30 active homins and GoJ (old guild) had 4 ops including Stronghold, then homins started coming back into game and I gave away 3 of the ops to returning kara and kami guilds to keep em in game

What's a QQer??

You referring to the way GoS (3 of em I think) helped mauro against kara at EI? Coz the enemy of my enemy is my friend? Or the way an Asylum helped the kara in the same battle?

Over and out :)

yawn.... op's are the worst thing that ever happen :}

@Victoriancamper I never said OPs aren't designed for PvP, my point was that as of now, they are limited to those who are pvp master PvPers, those who aren't (i.e the kara) don't really stand a chance unles they:
-grow in numbers (meh).
-sacrifice their time and dedicate to build their factions (double meh)

VC I do believe that OPs have been heavily influenced by people who are PvP orientated however I do not believe this is a bad thing. Certainly outposts are not becoming exclusively for PvPers as everyone can contribute to outpost wars in a positive manner no matter what their skill (except for people around level 1 of course). I do see and understand that the side constantly loosing will loose faith and not find battles fun anymore. Part of the reason for posting was an attempt to show karas that it is still possible to win. Many people seem to have taken this as patronizing but better to have tried imo.

There are many ways to put in effort into helping your faction at outpost wars. Yes training launcher, one of the things I highlighted earlier, and improving your PvP skills are two of them. Developing recipes, hunting mobs, digging mats and crafting great gear are other ways to help a faction. The latter things are all PvE orientated. Just because the Kami currently have more outpost mats doesn't necessarily mean better gear. Some players in Clan de la Sève Noire had amazing gear despite lacking outposts. Speaking specifically for Asylum we put a great deal of effort and attention into crafting our gear. That's what I enjoy so much about PvP. It is extremely challenging and simply swinging an axe at someone just scratches the surface (although it can be as simple as that) of everything that PvP encompasses. As I have said on the forums many times if people would like to expand their knowledge I am quite happy to talk about my own personal view points on PvP.

So there are many ways to which people can contribute to outpost wars even just by doing the PvE things they enjoy. Like I said before if people don't want to put the effort in that's fine, but these people, in my opinion, shouldn't be complaining that the lack of outpost wars is destroying the game.

VNC thank you for the lovely comment. I am simply not afraid to kick over some stones and despite being a tryker, I have the cojones to take the full brunt of it on my main account. Many people don't agree with what I post; my friends, my wife (nothing new there) and as you can see on here, a multitude of others. I will still continue to post if I think even a tiny positive outcome is possible. As for marauders showing up at SNs, last time I checked there are literally no marauders (except 2 players) who would show up at SNs. Most have gone neutral due to (I think) the roleplay restrictions created with marauders. In heal pods I don't really see maga amps as hardly having much of an impact, more as you also pointed out, the stats of the gear. However these stats, disregarding boosts, can be replicated by anyone who is willing to put some time into gathering mats. Yes I am aware sup zun at SNs will be off-limits to many people however there are many better recipes that don't require zun.

I am what I am and we are who we are! There I said it.

Has anyone seen the armor that the Matis craftamen make? I've seen body bags that do a better job protecting one from harm.

Ok this is ironic thats the only think ill say about it....


QQ = cry
No Bina im referring to the fact that u QQ about poor Karas losing OPs but u or no1 else ever said anything about the Marau faction that maybe we should back down take all their OP or go and do GvG or after the first round the winners take of 1 piece of armor ect.You say that the enemy of your enemy is your friend..... no Bina both Maras and Karas are considered enemies.Its good to talk like a politician but do it to the sheep that believe this kinda stuff without thinking.The fact remains that u try to make kamis not attack karas but ONLY karas never saw u do the same when Marauds started losing all OPs.I wonder why.

Virg -- I just want to know where the pod is. You are clearly not the same Virg who has flamed entire threads into ashes before moderators could put out the fire. You have been replaced by a pod person, probably formed from C60 from MegaCorp.

((OOC, and just in case anyone might possibly misinterpret the above: I think that Virg has been being remarkably even tempered. I also think that many people are misinterpreting his initial post and are using it to bring up old arguments that are relevant to PvP and OP battles, but are not relevant to the initial question.))

-- Bittty

Me? Flame??? I'm just rather passionate I like to think :3

As for Megacorp the Karavan are up to something I'm sure of it. I think they are experimenting on Rollocks- there have been rumours of him prancing around in matisian-crafted armour so they must have done something!

i've been out of game for some time now, saddly, but when i can i read things, i honestly don't know what happened but this thread has went about 10 directions, after reading about 85% of the posts from 1st to the point i started to skim, it seams that thinks went crazy, and not in the normal one group bickering with another, there was cross talk, internal talk, lost in translation talk, inter-guild talk, inter-faction talk, and i got so confused that i've forgotten what the topic was to start with, something about op's.

i dispise PvP which anyone that know's me knows, but i like to do op wars because there's a structure to them, win or loose i like to have fun at them, sure i spend alot of time looking at the ground because i'm a little foolish sometimes, but that's fun, i even spent 20 minutes of a war stuck under a massive pod of karavan players because of it. that was fun, and i was getting the **** kicked out of me, sure i wanted our side to win, but even if we'd have lost, i'd have had fun, cause while i like the nice stuff you can make with op mat's, i can live without them if needed.

OP's are a source of PvP, and they are BY CHOICE, the part of pvp i don't like is the forced pvp where i have no choice in the matter, if you take away my choice that's not sandbox, but that's another matter off topic (since i do belive i read the title of the thread as "a word or two (okay maybe a little) on outposts"

when i read the title, i think of the fact that OP's are a choice, and the discussion is from people that want to do op's, weather they like pvp normally or not, anyway, i kinda forgot where i was going with this so i'll just wrap this up, but this sure did become a train wreck (and i probally didn't help)

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