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Just for the record, Victoriancamper is in no way related to me, although I'm quite flattered that someone follows my victorian + camping beliefs.

As to the current topic: I do not beliefe all the people who left did so just because there is a lack of OutPost battles, although I aknowledge it *could* be a part of it.

In fact, I think people have left in the past for a rather excess of battles (+ the continuous lack of new content, inaccesibility to the dev team, ideas being ignored, characters being wiped etc.).

You keep saying people could actually do something at OPs  if they put in the effort but seriously, i have a hard time believing 15 launchers vs 50 (I have no clue on numbers, just said a random amount) would stand any chance, and after constant attempts people get tired.

You also don't want to speak about alts but it's not just about monstrous undying homins with (12k heals every 2.8 seconds) let alone 12k damage on a single homin, or a synced bomb on a pod, i think (and i'm just assuming) that that is not all that Elvanae meant, I think that on top of the proper alts, she was also speaking of the very common practice amongst the kamis of sharing accounts, if you mix that + the dexterity of some to control numerous toons at the same time.. well you have some advantage.

In any case, must remember everyone also has a RL to take care of and that theres only so much a homin can do to try to match your force.

Just my 2 cents, I don't even play anymore so could be completely mistaken, others will say.

Bina,

You forgot that praying to Ma Duk is what helps the most.

Rollocks
Karavanist Butcher

+1 on Elvanaes comments
+1 on Bitttymacods comments too, especially #16
+1 on all Binarabi's comments too

Assylum is turning out to be Temproray Insantiy #2. the guild that destroyed us before merge. No wonder since there are lots of former members. Very experienced.
I really dont care about Yakas alts, anyone can learn to do that or pay for it. It is easy to foul that system up with correct tactics.
However... Virg, your logic on getting a bunch of launcher people out there is not valid. To avoid that threat all you do is scatter or spread out.
Plus, I'm not sure people are leaving the game for lack of pvp, or OP fights. I think constantly losing is very discouraging to a player, or a player base. Have you ever experienced that? I think not. I have. Nobody likes to constantly lose.

As for Tuxis comments, How can wannabe pvp'rs get to be good pvp'rs when they can hold any OP's or win any fights? they cant get the good mats which the richer do get richer.

If the most recent example can be of any indication, then it seems that many No. 3's are either slipping into No. 2's or quitting all together. It's not something that I like to see happen but it appears there is no other explanation for the lack of attendance. Maybe final exams? I hope that's the case. I don't want to see atys become lifeless.

On a good note, there was a lack of trash talk and I am proud of both sides for being so mature and allowing everyone to enjoy themselves. If anything, it is a step in the right direction.

On a low note, A very close personal friend of mine being controlled by another person just doesn't sit right with me. I don't really think that this is necessary but that's just the way I play. I have played for years and just recently started using an alt to careplan, she is level 20. On the other hand, they chose to share their account info so.....

Victoria wrote.
"practice amongst the kamis of sharing accounts"

please forgive my lack of proper forum quoting...

Honestly i don't really want to spend my online time building up a faction to get a chance at OPs against a bunch of people who have mastered the art of it.. Its supposed to be enjoyable, not something else to worry about.

Maybe Ryzom is no longer for me, should i leave? Did i already ? ^^

Virg, in my opinion, the only reason people leave Ryzom is the lack of freedom in the gameplay and NOT the lack of OP battles. It's the contrary.

"Lack of freedom" in Ryzom????? Ryzom, a classless, fully sandbox MMORPG known as one of the few with a real freedom for the player to build its own character?

Yes, lack of freedom.

Actually to fully play the game a new player have no other choice than follow what some other people decide.
Even in the RP part there is a lack of freedom, because all decisions are simply made by one RP community and nothing seems can be done to change this.

In the past, there were real alternatives in the gameplay, and PvP was not the main part of it. Tho, it was a fun activity to do sometimes, for both losers and winners. Now PvP is the main focus of the game. More, since the merge, Ryzom turned as a full PvP game.

A strong community is a real good thing for a game, but when this community is not guided and mitigated by correct game mechanics and by an experienced team of developers that actually care of the game, and never favour a single side, then everything go broken.

When a game is owned by (some) player, unbalance and frustration is the only possible result for any new people that want really experience the no-more-as-in-the-past freedom of Ryzom.

This is just my opinion.

Firstly to all the people saying people aren't leaving the game because of the lack of OP battles.. please read the actual post. The post was primarily to address those people who think like that, of which I know there are many. I made this topic for 3 reasons:
1) To basically tell all the people who complain about the situation that if you want something to change, the OP battles are a PvP mechanic, and you will need to put some effort in. If you don't want to put effort in, stop complaining.
2) To show the Kara that it still can be done and point out kami-kara always fluctuate.
3) To get everyone else views on the current situation at hand.

Yes Bina, alts are part of it however a conversation about alts will just get messy (feel like I'm having to repeat myself a fair bit here). I could for example point out Yorran, from what I saw, was in control of more alts than Yakapo at the last war I attended. Now that would be controversial that many people wouldn't have known about would they?? Stop bashing Yakapo for the love of Ma-Duk.

Well VNC at least I am trying to do something about situation rather than hiding behind alt names to insult people on the forums. At least be brave enough to say things on your real account. As for being smug, as I have said many times, either players banter is misinterpreted, or it was in response to the untagged yelk dragging which was illegal.

VC at one OP battle over Loria 15 launchers wiped the other side (who did have a fairly large force) in under a minute.

VC and Arturia, I know of many karas that share accounts. People seem to point at kamis saying "Oh wow look they do this! This is wrong!", completely forgetting it happens within their own faction just as much.

Naema when you scatter and spread out you loose the efficiency of heal bombs which when concerning large numbers is very necessary. When the marauders PvPed with large numbers they always stayed alive granted but, in my opinion, due to the lack of a heal pod or heal bombs they weren't efficient enough to do any real damage.

Helgah no you shouldn't leave. One of the points I am making is that if you don't want to engage in OP battles and put some effort into them, then they probably aren't something you should be rating the game on. That would be like someone saying "Oh I can't get a q250 Kami Skirt because other people kill me so I can't earn points off them. This sucks I'm going to leave the game".

Gilgameesh I would completely disagree that PvP is the main focus of Ryzom. Being a PvPer myself there are actually very little opportunities to PvP compared to that of PvE and RP. People seem to be attributing the lack of OP wars or the dominance of one faction in OP wars as the downfall of the game. It is just a simple PvP mechanic. Yes politics took control for quite some time. It doesn't have much say these days thats all.

men greedy and proud are also a good reason for quit game. And even arrogant people.

women whining and moaning, no reason to quit game.

:p

Hi, no I wasn't speaking about the sharing of accounts. It happens everywhere for different reasons, healing, CPing etc... It i a common practice full stop from all sides.

I think this is an important factor if not the main reason. And what I was trying to say in my previous posts, is the growing necessity for players to have a strong understanding of PvP when it comes not only to battles but to SNs also. I can speak for myself and my Guild = PvPing isnt that hard. You get the proper gear and you set up the proper bars and after a few times of practice (which my guild has hosted in the Matis arena) you get a feel for it and understand how valuable it is. When I speak for my faction... when we first hosted the trainign sessions, the turn out was dissapointing although with time a couple more people joined. Some people either thought it was beneath them or else didn't want to because its not their gameplay. Now I cant force people to participate, although in Armas, the turnout is always generally high, I cannot just rely on building up my guild and disregarding the rest of the Karavan. A lot of guilds did/do something similar and left/leave the rest of us struggling behind.

What I will say, though, is because of this, I wanted to point out to Virg that their wanting to have fun will either have to wait until the player base of the Karavan changes or until (and I dont see it for the current players) the Karavan actually get to grips with PvP, because we can disregard Virg's guild - many of whom have worked VERY hard with their skills, but in general, the Kami are so much more in tune with PvPing. Ryzom's playerbase is not getting any bigger any time soon, so what you see is who we are. Does that mean we have no choice? No... I PvP... I thoroughly enjoy it in Void and SN's being in a group of people who know the basics of PvP too (amongst whom you will also find F2Ps) and I am still able to do all those things I love doing in Ryzom and PvEing. 

The choice is always there. Take Tuxi and Drogos who are, I would say, very PvE... And read Tuxi's post on her first PvP training session. People are too quick to look down their noses at it, think they know best and not bother coming or like Tuxi, be really anxious and feel like they are not good enough or cannot make a difference when they can and they do! So you know what... another reason people not only leave their faction but also the game is the lack of support and disregard for working together as a whole faction.

OPs are not the be all and end all. In fact, the ability to trade with will increase because of the unbalance. I guess you could say you can put in the effort in other ways if you do not like to PvP. Regardless, I do agree with you to a certain extent... however, when I compare my gear to some of the people's I've PvPed with, its not all that fancy.. I don't have any boosted stuff and I use Exc mats in my gear/jewls/weapons recipes. But yet me and my team have won at 2v2, 3v3 etc. I remember at a not so long ago SN, it was exhilirating because we didnt wipe for a long time by using the skills we learnt at the PvP training session, so yes the work did pay off! :) I nearly cost Drezar 10 sups ^_^

Anyways, yes its upsetting to lose... yes you feel you are not good enough. I am there with you on that. But I do not plan to stop the training sessions, nor to trying to rebuild the Karavan. But I cannot do it alone and that is what I think Virg is trying to say @VictoriaNcamper. You can't have 5 people in a faction do it all alone and whoever is your main (I suspect you are probably an aggrieved Karavan) you should join us in our sessions because theres guilds on both sides that solo NPC bosses and the Karavan cannot afford to lose touch with one another, lets say it how it is.

Virg, I don't see how any of this is helping. You ask for people's views but are quick to disregard them. It seems to me that you are just trying to justify your actions. Here are some problems that I see.

1, You claim to try to be making OP battles more fun by only inviting a few kami. I commend your efforts but all this means is that the kami are holding back to allow the opposing side to win a couple rounds. As fun as winning a few rounds may be, you will in no way ever allow yourselves to lose a battle and you can invite kami or log in other characters at any interval to turn the tide.

2. Someone broke the CoC in a battle which you keep pointing out. While I do not agree with nor condone this type of activity, don't act like this is the first time it has ever happened. I happen to remember a certain video.... oh yeah we were attacked for pointing that out before. So here's how it seems to go. You see someone cheating, you attack them. Someone calls you out for cheating, you attack them. Fun.

3. Even though you are trying to make OP battles more fun for both sides, it defeats the purpose when there is no chance of actually winning. It is very hard not to slip into a No.2 at this point. The fact that I personally am starting to care less should be all the indication needed. I used to care a lot. As many have said, there is only so much losing that people can tolerate.

If things continue down their current path, have fun killing guards. You've worked hard, you deserve it after all.

First off, Those of you from Ari, should damn well know that the tides of who controled all OP's and or most switched a few times from Kami-Kara, kara held onto the lead until the merge, with the merge more kami floated in and a lot of good players left the game from not only karavans side but from kami's as well, LET US NEVER forget that the tides of who is on top will always CHANGE, think of it as high and low tide, right now kara cant get their shit together even with your weekly meetings of the "karavan alliance" and with 3-1 numbers over us in OP's you still wipe because you lack basic OP battle tactics on defense and offense that is painfully clear, as for GvG and OP's being "yours" because they are in your region is pure BS, you know if you did GvG it would be worse for you and ya'll would lose an whine more, and if an OP was really "meant" to be yours because of region, well.. why dont you own it already? instead of gathering and boosting moral of your factions side you sit here and compalin.

I don't believe I am quick to disregard other views them just because I don't agree with them. I have even agreed with some people which is very unusual for me. I think long and hard before posting and if I do disagree with someone, I don't have trouble saying that and giving my reasons why. I hope that people would read through this topic and see that just because the Kami control lots of outposts, doesn't mean its game over and they should give up.

Yes we are trying to make OP battles fun rather than just white-washing the Karavan. This creates an environment where people can build on their pvp skills. At the most recent battle a new Karavan player told me they were thoroughly enjoying it, which for me, makes it worth while. I had heard on the next battle they didn't so much because two defeats in a row can prove to be hard to take. Of course we will never purposefully loose but this does not mean we cannot be beaten. That is in the hands of the Karavan to prepare an attack that does win. The next Karavan win I believe will be on their terms and their declaration as then they will be prepared and ready.

Yes I do remember that situation. I attacked a RW member for creating a forum post about an Asylum member in an attempt to publicly humiliate and slate him. I stated he should have dealt with the matter privately and that the attempt to deface our member was amongst other things childish. On this forum post I have made reference to a player breaking the CoC at an OP battle. However I did not mention it to shame the member, but instead to explain the Kami's unsporting behaviour which many people had pointed out was upsetting and demoralising. I wanted to make it clear that behaviour on both sides of the battle needed to improve, not just on the Kami side. Of course as I said, the incident does not excuse the behavior, but nonetheless it is the reason for it.

One of the main points in the post was to show the people who are in your position that they can still win with a bit of effort. It is very easy to slip into a deafest attitude and I have been in that position before back when AA were very strong. I understand many Karavan are feeling very defeated, as I had, but believe me when I say they can come back from this.

I've just read four pages of comments on how kara should or shouldn't do this and how kami should or shouldn't do that. None of it hits the real point of this game.

Ryzom is not a game of "follow this story arc and you win" like traditional mmos are. Ryzom is, as some have pointed out, a sandbox. That sandbox has a very particular focus, being that of scarce resources.

The drive to collect scarce resources creates conflict.

The game contemplates two (or possibly more) sides to drive that confict. It's a competition, not a cooperation. The game is set up that way.

"Why can't we just get along" works on a faction basis but not a cross-faction basis, when scarce resources are at stake. Therefore, we group with opposing faction people but we don't do so during OP wars or supernodes.

During scarce resource events, we compete. We do so by crafting gear designed to help us compete. We do so by working hard on the skills of competition.

No apologies for what I have written. I stand by this.