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#27 Added by Suboxide 1 decade ago Report | Quote [en]

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well virg alot of ppl see karami and such as a big insult, you pissed of allot of ppl in the guildchat I'm in. Not everyone likes to post on the forums but calling ppl like that is for alot a not done thing you seem to enjoy doing.
And it's for them a way they play the game I would like it if they teamed up but if they are against it then they are.
You telling em to team with kara is just like me telling you to do something totally different or change you whole RP-gaming way and it seems you didn't like me telling you that

Last edited by Suboxide (1 decade ago)

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#28 Added by Salazar 1 decade ago Report | Quote [de]

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Elvanae (atys)

When it comes to OP battles and ownership - the gloves come off... It doesn't matter to me that you are my friend or my boyfriend ( and Virg can verify the real life punches and headbutts ) to show how passionate I am about my faction. My enemy is real when I can target them and kill them, which I do.

But the weird/funny thing about the OPs is that officially they are neither part of politics, nor of faction RP. Pragmatically, the player gouvernments, for example, have no rights to discuss their ownership. But then, RP players in the past were often heavily attacked by PvP players if they made the outposts part of roleplay.

Last edited by Salazar (1 decade ago)

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Salazar Caradini
Filira Matia
Royal Historian
Member of the Royal Academy of Yrkanis
First Seraph of the Order of the Argo Navis

#29 Added by Elvanae 1 decade ago Report | Quote [en]

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Not really sure I am understanding you properly Salazar. But I would respond by saying that if the RPs are overwhelmed by PvPers then clearly the circle of RPs is smaller for a particular reason(s). The French Karavan I mentioned in my previous post did not have to leave the game... I never tried to pressure them into playing like me. I just wanted them to respect my game play, let them continue to play how they wish. Ah, when it comes to issues like OPs and ownership and RP - if it will affect me, for all the hard work I've put into obtaining the particular OP, a concensus should be reached, not make extreme demands upon me. Point I was trying to make is that I feel there was far less tolerance from the extreme RPers from the very start. This is still quite fresh in my mind with an extreme attitude of: "I wont share my OP mats with you if you trade with Kami/Mara"... hold on... you need to understand why I think it is ok to do this before you demand I play a certain way.

Edited 2 times | Last edited by Elvanae (1 decade ago)

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#30 Added by Jarnys 1 decade ago Report | Quote [en]

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Kami this, Karavan that, Marauders something entire different...

Why no mention of Fyros, Matis, Tryker, Zorai? There are (can be) conflicts between the races as well.

- I've seen faction-neutral guilds alternate the drill on their OP every once in a while.
- I've seen Karavan-Fyros guilds which were(are) seen as an affront by some.
- I've Kami-followers happily searching the debris of an obvious Karavan-contraption
- I've seen multi-nation/faction groups hunting down Kitin
- I've seen marauders (before they were a faction) trying to split the nations apart with fake-information
- I've seen how some people tried to attend the Templewars as simple harvesters and how that lead to other movements
- I've seen "strict" Matis use fire spells and Fyros armor
- I've seen "strict" Kamis use Karavan-OP gear
...

PvP is not the only way to show that you're part of a faction/nation some people like to talk/discuss more others show their allegiance through other actions like never using things from other factions/nations.

And what about neutrals?
Yes, I know in reality nobody is perfectly neutral but it's possible to be that in a game.
You could be Nation-X but Neutral in ragards to Kami/Kara but Marauders would still be your enemies as well as Nation-Y so how would this person react in a fight between a Kami and a Kara guild both from Nation-X?
You could be Karavan and Nation-Neutral, Marauders are still your enemies as well as Kami but how will you react in a war between two guilds from Nation X an Y that are both Karavan?
For both questions the answer will be that you either don't participate in the conflict or you're going to help those you "like" better (be it monetary incentive or friendship)

There's a multitude of different options but all I see is a focus on Kami vs Kara (vs Marauder)

Virg: I don't remember what nation Asylum's from but have you ever thought of attacking an OP that's in the hands of a Kami guild which is part of your "opposing" nation? (Matis vs Fyros or Tryker vs Zorai)

Exodus: You could call it the "Leanon syndrome" as well because in regards to RP-PvP both servers were very similar. Not so much in general RP (more on Lea) or PvP (more on Ari) though.

OK, I hope that not everyone is a lot more confused now.

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#31 Added by Binarabi 1 decade ago Report | Quote [en]

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Exodus (atys)

You play with kamis/karas/marauders etc, you get your hands on the coolest armor and then what? by the time you got your cool armor.. you are friend with everybody on the server!

Not read rest of postings yet - but just want to say it is fun to kill friends - Goldcrest is often pointing out that I am eating dirt again ...

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Binarabi
This idea of "I'm offended". Well I've got news for you. I'm offended by a lot of things too. Where do I send my list? Life is offensive. You know what I mean? Just get in touch with your outer adult. (Bill Hicks)

#32 Added by Virg 1 decade ago Report | Quote [en]

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Suboxide (atys)

well virg alot of ppl see karami and such as a big insult, you pissed of allot of ppl in the guildchat I'm in. Not everyone likes to post on the forums but calling ppl like that is for alot a not done thing you seem to enjoy doing.
And it's for them a way they play the game I would like it if they teamed up but if they are against it then they are.
You telling em to team with kara is just like me telling you to do something totally different or change you whole RP-gaming way and it seems you didn't like me telling you that

Subo I have never insulted karami or ever said it was a bad thing. In fact I have supported kami in such decisions to help marauders or kara alike during OP wars and argued both sides of the coin in peoples defense. I have friends on both sides and I can see why people would choose to fight for either. As to your guildmembers being offended from me so called "insulting karamis" I fail to see where I would have done so (especially as your guild is more in favor of marauders last I checked), if you could send me a mail as to not clog up this forum with that hopefully we can clear the air. I do however ridicule people who lash out at "karamis" when their own faction has teamed up previously with other factions.

Subo I merely suggest that kara and marauder should attack the same kami OP at the same time (twice in fact so they can each have a shot at an OP). I am not telling them to do it, I am merely suggesting it, unlike you who told me to "join the marauders" amongst your multitude of insults thrown at Asylum. If people complain about the lack of OP wars or the fact kami are too strong I find it silly. The answer is there- an alliance of sorts. I assumed roleplayers stuck to the lore and no-where in the lore does it talk about marauders not killing kami whilst karavan kill kami at the same time. Tell me where it says in the kami lore that if the kami get too strong I should just abandon them join the marauders?

So the marauders or karas don't want to? Fine, up to them. But stop complaining about kami numbers when there is a solution that is well within the confines of the lore.

Jarnys

Virg: I don't remember what nation Asylum's from but have you ever thought of attacking an OP that's in the hands of a Kami guild which is part of your "opposing" nation?

Nope the kami have an alliance just like the karavan and I assume the marauders. Also I am kami, why would I attack my own brethren?

Jarnys

Why no mention of Fyros, Matis, Tryker, Zorai? There are (can be) conflicts between the races as well.

There will be conflicts soon enough. Yrkanis will burn for what the matis did to thesos.

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#33 Added by Binarabi 1 decade ago Report | Quote [en]

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Finished reading ... had to take coffee break half way through ...

Jarnys (atys)

Why no mention of Fyros, Matis, Tryker, Zorai? There are (can be) conflicts between the races as well.

Totally agree - kill all Matis, they are very friendly with Karavan in the main and therefore hold responsibility for production of C60 and the subsequent lag on the server

Jarnys (atys)

- I've Kami-followers happily searching the debris of an obvious Karavan-contraption

They were temporarily mesmerised by the floating bags ...

Jarnys (atys)

- I've seen "strict" Kamis use Karavan-OP gear

did not know they had much ... someone using erigos picks then?

Jarnys (atys)

Virg: I don't remember what nation Asylum's from but have you ever thought of attacking an OP that's in the hands of a Kami guild which is part of your "opposing" nation? (Matis vs Fyros or Tryker vs Zorai)

Nice idea - and as a Fyros guild (I think) they would be well justified in killing any Matis-kami guild ... alas, don't think there is one. Have a bit of a problem in killing our own Matis in our guild - Jaydinth is real nice, so see her as a deserted Matis, left to starve and fend for herself by nasty Matis homins such as pasty Divinesoul, we took her in and clothed her and gave her lots of cuddles and beer - she is fine now (though she winces when the Trykers start singing ... "I look too sexy for my shirt" comes to mind) [/quote]

Overall, homins will continue to play the game they want to but I do sympathise that role play is limited and homins do not like the lack of "content" and so leave, but in a sandbox we are supposed to make our own content - yes? Through the local governments? Maybe strict role play does give the game a firm foundation on which to build governments and events? But it will not happen.

Binarabi, GL Guardians of Shadows (and NOT going to Asylum for half a jar of nutella!)

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#34 Added by Lacuna 1 decade ago Report | Quote [en]

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Jarnys (atys)

- I've seen "strict" Kamis use Karavan-OP gear

did not know they had much ... someone using erigos picks then?

That would be me. Erm..... and you gave me it :P Memory issues are another reson why we need to upgrade GL :P

Binarabi, GL Guardians of Shadows (and NOT going to Asylum for half a jar of nutella!)[/quote]

You are also getting a kiss from Suboxide.

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#35 Added by Exodus 1 decade ago Report | Quote [en]

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Elvanae (atys)

Not really sure I am understanding you properly Salazar. But I would respond by saying that if the RPs are overwhelmed by PvPers then clearly the circle of RPs is smaller for a particular reason(s). The French Karavan I mentioned in my previous post did not have to leave the game... I never tried to pressure them into playing like me. I just wanted them to respect my game play, let them continue to play how they wish. Ah, when it comes to issues like OPs and ownership and RP - if it will affect me, for all the hard work I've put into obtaining the particular OP, a concensus should be reached, not make extreme demands upon me. Point I was trying to make is that I feel there was far less tolerance from the extreme RPers from the very start. This is still quite fresh in my mind with an extreme attitude of: "I wont share my OP mats with you if you trade with Kami/Mara"... hold on... you need to understand why I think it is ok to do this before you demand I play a certain way.

Hey Elvanae,

Thanks for the replies - I think the main problem is that if you are friend with everybody on the server, the faction role play loses its power and those who do role play, will disappear and it will become Arispotle server again.

I never implied you should change, this is a discussion regarding the implications of no faction role play, but I never intended to tell anyone what's best for them.

I just wanted to know how the old players of Arispotle think about it, if they consider it a problem or not.

I am friend with a lot of people on this server too (despite my aggressiveness in posting and debating) but at the same time I do role-play for me and my factions. Now in my case I'm marauder, most of the _faction role-play_ is PvP, but I dont think Karavans have it the same.

But, if you do no faction role play, you will make all the others go away.. in the end.. because you will win that shiny armor (just an example) by all means necessarily and they dont, because they relay on you to be a part of the faction and you are not, because you dont see it that way.

Cheers,

Exodus

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#36 Added by Virg 1 decade ago Report | Quote [en]

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So these people you speak of exo, their roleplay states and relies upon factions not teaming up? The lore dictates nothing of that sort. I think the main issue here is that some people have taken it upon themselves to make up their own roleplay. Making up your own roleplay is of course good. However this becomes an issue when their own roleplay starts trying to dictate what others should do.

Hoping others abide by the lore is somewhat understandable (and yet if someone doesn't want to roleplay nothing more you can do). Wanting others to abide by roleplay which the player has actually created is never going to happen unless you can be an ambassador of that roleplay.

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Guild Leader of Syndicate
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#37 Added by Mjollren 1 decade ago Report | Quote [en]

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@ Exodus (first post)

The plague of any RP game is that people still need to play it mechanically. In other words, regardless of my role affiliation, I am going to want to wear the best gear, both in PvP and PvE, and simple economics dictate I will get that gear by any means necessary -- bribery, disregard of RP, force, alliances.

I believe the game succeeds in selecting an interesting player base. Players that are a bit more coherent than the average. Players that are a bit more patient, calm, focused. You know what the tutorial and the subsequent gameplay don't select for? Roleplayers.

You're not supposed to know the lore in order to finish the tutorial, or to do anything on mainland. You're free to go most everywhere regardless of allegiance (even marauders if they're careful with fame). The "role" is often chosen because of mechanics, not because of player preference. If New Horizons wasn't a way to make money, how many would even align with nations? If certain pacts were not fame-restricted, how many would even choose kami or kara?

So there's your conundrum: you have a large playerbase that doesn't care about RP too much, and even if it would, often it couldn't due to needing partners. You can't enforce strict RP or non-RP, because that drives players out of the game from either side; other games simply set up two separate servers, but WG can't afford it. To add, as Virg notes, there are a lot of blurry lines if you don't go fully separatist / extremist.

Player consensus is not bound to happen anything soon. Words will not fix this, a good portion of the people don't even read forums. GM intervention could fix this, Event restrictions could somewhat fix this, a CoC that forbids you to break role would fix this (if enforced). Either you have someone with authority push in a direction or another, or we're just throwing words in the wind here.

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#38 Added by Elvanae 1 decade ago Report | Quote [en]

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Exodus (atys)

But, if you do no faction role play, you will make all the others go away.. in the end.. because you will win that shiny armor (just an example) by all means necessarily and they dont, because they relay on you to be a part of the faction and you are not, because you dont see it that way.

Cheers,

Exodus

No :/ I do not think I "make" anyone do anything they don't want to do, how can you say that.

I can't accept that just because I do, for example, Pei in mixed team, that I am causing those Kara RPers not to get Pei. My aim is to get a full Kara team, but the reality is that there are hardly ever enough people online willing or able to kill him in a full Kara team. What I want and what I can have are separate. Like I said in previous post - I am merely taking advantage of the fact that I can get 0.11 Pei points as opposed to 0.

I did not want to say this but even in your previous post I get the impression you feel like its our, non RPers, fault that your circle of RPers is small.

Mjollren has very aptly provided a few reasons as to why your circle is so small.

Lastly, you saying that I am not part of the faction just goes to show you are being close-minded despite, as you say your aim was to "know how the old players of Arispotle think about it". The difference between me and an extreme RPer as I have mentioned previously is I respect their gameplay but you have just shown to me again what I experienced with French RP Karas, that if you don't play how they play, you are not in the faction... why is it so difficult for you to respect my game play? Like I said, there is no right nor wrong way to play.

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#39 Added by Emilie 1 decade ago Report | Quote [en]

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Forgive me for stating the obvious, but you are all talking about PvP roleplay, which is one type. The other type is PvE roleplay, which is rare among English speakers as far as I can tell. There is a distinction, and it isn't all pvp. I'd like to see more of both. It's very sad to hear from a French player "oh Asylum, I didn't think you guys rp'd". I do and I'm not the only one.

I have an appropriate evolving back-story for my kami Matis character along with back-stories for alts (like my traitorous cousin Mireille who shall suffer when I get my hands on her for what she's done). If you're going to RPvP, maybe you should start with a back story for your character and see what comes out of it. Play your character and not yourself. See what happens.

This is a completely different discussion than who sides with who in OP wars or at SNs. There isn't 100% rp buy in for that, so complaining about it is pointless. In every faction, there will be "I want it for me" people, which is appropriate, and sometimes the getting it for you requires compromise. Conflict without nuance is not roleplay; come up with a reasonable justification and go do it.

For me, I can justify jumping for Pei with people of all kinds, sometimes people who kill me and who I kill in appropriate context. It's not personal and I don't "hate" anybody (well, except Placio maybe, since he's forever grinning at me evilly, so it's deserved ;) ). I've learned all sorts of things about the characters on this server that have nothing to do with various government politics, which is only another rp sub-type anyway. I've made friends with some very weird people and so been able to expand my ability to rp on this world.

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Sassafras

#40 Added by Exodus 1 decade ago Report | Quote [en]

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Inaction is a weapon of mass destruction. Your are all part of a faction/guild, how many of you influence the new recruits? it will become Arispotle because you are the ambassadors of your way of role play or no role-play.

Yes, we all play here but at least bear in mind, your actions also impact all the communities and MY CONCERN once again, (people seem to either ignore it or just don't reply to the point) is that your role play makes the end game (getting the best armor etc etc ) easier and it will corrupt all the role play communities in doing the same, as in no faction role-play.

I dont want you to change just accept this part of reality too, as I am accepting yours. Because trust me, it is easier to do no role-play than do role-play. (it was never a personal attack)

And without faction role play, you end up farming resources - it is boring, empty, and the only role play it delivers is being verbally aggressive to one another or teasing your so called "enemies" "Guild X is doing this and you are not".

Anyways,

I'm starting to see the big picture now and understand the limitations and I really don't like what I see, I do hope the french Kami guilds will still do role play as the Karavan ones already extinguished.

P.S. if tomorrow the power swings from Kami to Karavan, I'm willing to bed all my money that all kami guilds that do role-play will die, because as I stated and others did:

RP is not neccessarily about winning, is about being your character, all of it, not just bits and pieces.

Exodus out

Edited 2 times | Last edited by Exodus (1 decade ago) | Reason: added bits and pieces

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#41 Added by Elvanae 1 decade ago Report | Quote [en]

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Let me get this clear. This what what I understand so far:

1. You believe non-RPers influence players not to RP.
2. Therefore non-RPers are the reason why the RP circle is smaller.
3. The way non-RPers play is wrong.

I say:

1. You didn't read/want to admit that Mjollren made some very valid reasons.
2. Simply leaving the game (like French Kara did) because they could not impose their "rules" upon the rest of us, is in my opinion a pathetic excuse. Karavan are not doing great atm for a very long time, I am more motivated than ever to do something about that to empower us further. You say inaction is the cause of destruction but you can thank your fellow RPers who left the game since you self-destructed imo.
3. There is no right or wrong way to play. Just like in real life, there are liberals and extremists, you tolerate, you come to a consensus and you accept others in your faction will be different. Again and again I say, the French Kara did not CARE to know us or understand, they basically attempted to bully us into playing their way. Is bullying the right way to go about brining people over to RP you think?? I don't think so.

Anyways, I am glad you did open this topic actually, and believe me I understand your concern. But I feel you are blaming the wrong people instead of looking to the devs (like Mjo suggested and stated because first contact for new players is not former Ari guilds) and look to yourself to find out what's wrong and do something about it.

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