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Wow subo is all I can say. You think asylum are hiding behind the kami faction? Where was the kami faction before Asylum came along? Asylum members have played a pivotable role in making the kami faction what it is today. You suggest that I leave the kami but why should I? I have always been a kami even when karas owned nearly all the 250 OPs. Just because times are good you now think I should leave?

Asylum likes to talk big but then runs and hide do they? We pvp almost everyday. We show what skills we have in that time. As for GvG we have been considering such a thing. We had a proposal from Clan before but haven't received any others as of yet.

You think I should show karami how its done? Suboxide I like the karami. It is a good thing. It has potential that other alliances might follow. Server numbers are not even right now. Kami have more players. So what do you think should be done? You suggest the biggest kami guild should join the other faction??? What I believe should happen, and what I have been saying for months now- is that kara and marauders should ally. Some people would put a label on such a thing "karauders" or whatever but I think that implies the two factions have merged. This doesn't have to be the case.

Let me put this forward from a roleplay view for marauders.
Marauders
The marauder taboos are:

• Accept the authority of the new homin governments.
• Bow to the authority of the Kami or Karavan.
• Trampling our own values.

Where does it say they won't create temporary alignments with other factions? The marauders are meant to be resourceful (they survived on their own after all). Yet here we are. The kami are on top. The karavan don't have much and in fact are getting extremely desperate and frustrated. They are a resource. A resource the marauders should make the most of. Do you have to trade with them? No. Do you have to team with them? No. Do you have to league with them? No. Do you have to both attack the same OP at the same time? Yes. Does this mean you heal them? No. Does this mean you kill kami alongside them? Yes.

Please tell me where it says in the lore killing kami whilst karavan do at the same time is wrong.


Suboxide let me make this clear to you right now: I want our OPs to be attacked. I want the karavan and marauders to allign. I want a real fight. I talk big because currently Asylum is big. I want competition and I want to fight a stronger enemy than we ever have before. I am not hiding. I am openly supporting an alliance that could be the kami downfall.

Come get us.
Lots of love,
Virgiepoo xxxx

I experienced this after merger with the French Karavan guilds who attempted to be very strict on RPing with regards to factions.

It was not fun. Not for myself nor for others who expressed their frustration.

I don't believe in forcing others to play the way I play. Hence, I am glad those French Karas left the game. But I understand your point. In this scenario, the Karavan did lose out on those players who left, but from my point of view, Ari was a real community. I have Kami friends, and in Virg's case more... to imagine that I would log on to be told I cannot team with him or other friends to do the things I enjoy would be pointless for me - hence I would not want to play anymore.

Anyways, Im venting my opinion and a little of my frustration that this is something which is necessary to be discussed in the forums... it is very simple... we all have to accept that we will all play how we enjoy playing and respect this.

I do not feel, in terming myself a "liberal", that I tried to impose the way I play upon those strict RPers, whilst on the other hand, the latter would comment upon my right to trade, team with, heal/rez/help opposing players etc... to an extreme level sometimes. This is restricting to me. Tell me exactly how I restrict you? I don't, you are free to RP with those who also RP and agree with you, and if your circle is small that is not my fault because I do things you do not. I don't want to change you nor how you play. But if you want to do something just within your own faction, you need to get to know your faction better to create that repertoire and have that Pei team full of your own faction for example. Otherwise, I feel I had a right to be frustrated with the French Kara who, to me, appeared not to want to understand me, but to expect so much of me and preach this and that regardless of what things were like in my server and irrespective of my own opinions and feelings.

The reality is that different servers played differently and we are all products of those servers. Many people have grown strong friendships and I believe that this is a major factor in why most people continue to play Ryzom, because of the great community.

There is not right way nor is there a wrong way to play. All servers have their history, and as in rl, this will impact massively upon the present. I feel like you are making up some assumptions and suggestions based on what you believe is the right way for me to be playing and just like the French Kara, you don't appreciate that my past makes me who I am and how I play and that it may be different from yours.

In suggesting this "other" community, you are stating that currently:
- I don't have a real enemy
- my gear and materials have less meaning
- I am helping my enemy if I team with them to do Pei
- I am not playing my character
- the war is meaningless

Well, no, you are wrong.
When it comes to OP battles and ownership - the gloves come off... It doesn't matter to me that you are my friend or my boyfriend ( and Virg can verify the real life punches and headbutts ) to show how passionate I am about my faction. My enemy is real when I can target them and kill them, which I do.

I do not help my enemy if I get as much from the same activity as they do. I am helping myself with the opportunities I have presented before me. The alternative at times is either 0 Pei points or 0.11 Pei points.

I am most certainly playing my character. Unlike SOME, not wanting to name names..., players, I have been Karavan from day 1! Through good and bad times.

This war, right now, has more meaning to me that ever. Because the Karavan are the weaker faction. You know how long I spend to try to gain skills that matter be they in PvP or Launcher/Melee? I realise that I have to work hard to evolve into a real strong faction and I'll thank Virg to keep his suggestions about joining with Marauders to himself as he might need it soon ;)

well virg alot of ppl see karami and such as a big insult, you pissed of allot of ppl in the guildchat I'm in. Not everyone likes to post on the forums but calling ppl like that is for alot a not done thing you seem to enjoy doing.
And it's for them a way they play the game I would like it if they teamed up but if they are against it then they are.
You telling em to team with kara is just like me telling you to do something totally different or change you whole RP-gaming way and it seems you didn't like me telling you that

Not really sure I am understanding you properly Salazar. But I would respond by saying that if the RPs are overwhelmed by PvPers then clearly the circle of RPs is smaller for a particular reason(s). The French Karavan I mentioned in my previous post did not have to leave the game... I never tried to pressure them into playing like me. I just wanted them to respect my game play, let them continue to play how they wish. Ah, when it comes to issues like OPs and ownership and RP - if it will affect me, for all the hard work I've put into obtaining the particular OP, a concensus should be reached, not make extreme demands upon me. Point I was trying to make is that I feel there was far less tolerance from the extreme RPers from the very start. This is still quite fresh in my mind with an extreme attitude of: "I wont share my OP mats with you if you trade with Kami/Mara"... hold on... you need to understand why I think it is ok to do this before you demand I play a certain way.

Kami this, Karavan that, Marauders something entire different...

Why no mention of Fyros, Matis, Tryker, Zorai? There are (can be) conflicts between the races as well.

- I've seen faction-neutral guilds alternate the drill on their OP every once in a while.
- I've seen Karavan-Fyros guilds which were(are) seen as an affront by some.
- I've Kami-followers happily searching the debris of an obvious Karavan-contraption
- I've seen multi-nation/faction groups hunting down Kitin
- I've seen marauders (before they were a faction) trying to split the nations apart with fake-information
- I've seen how some people tried to attend the Templewars as simple harvesters and how that lead to other movements
- I've seen "strict" Matis use fire spells and Fyros armor
- I've seen "strict" Kamis use Karavan-OP gear
...

PvP is not the only way to show that you're part of a faction/nation some people like to talk/discuss more others show their allegiance through other actions like never using things from other factions/nations.

And what about neutrals?
Yes, I know in reality nobody is perfectly neutral but it's possible to be that in a game.
You could be Nation-X but Neutral in ragards to Kami/Kara but Marauders would still be your enemies as well as Nation-Y so how would this person react in a fight between a Kami and a Kara guild both from Nation-X?
You could be Karavan and Nation-Neutral, Marauders are still your enemies as well as Kami but how will you react in a war between two guilds from Nation X an Y that are both Karavan?
For both questions the answer will be that you either don't participate in the conflict or you're going to help those you "like" better (be it monetary incentive or friendship)

There's a multitude of different options but all I see is a focus on Kami vs Kara (vs Marauder)

Virg: I don't remember what nation Asylum's from but have you ever thought of attacking an OP that's in the hands of a Kami guild which is part of your "opposing" nation? (Matis vs Fyros or Tryker vs Zorai)

Exodus: You could call it the "Leanon syndrome" as well because in regards to RP-PvP both servers were very similar. Not so much in general RP (more on Lea) or PvP (more on Ari) though.

OK, I hope that not everyone is a lot more confused now.

Not read rest of postings yet - but just want to say it is fun to kill friends - Goldcrest is often pointing out that I am eating dirt again ...

Subo I have never insulted karami or ever said it was a bad thing. In fact I have supported kami in such decisions to help marauders or kara alike during OP wars and argued both sides of the coin in peoples defense. I have friends on both sides and I can see why people would choose to fight for either. As to your guildmembers being offended from me so called "insulting karamis" I fail to see where I would have done so (especially as your guild is more in favor of marauders last I checked), if you could send me a mail as to not clog up this forum with that hopefully we can clear the air. I do however ridicule people who lash out at "karamis" when their own faction has teamed up previously with other factions.

Subo I merely suggest that kara and marauder should attack the same kami OP at the same time (twice in fact so they can each have a shot at an OP). I am not telling them to do it, I am merely suggesting it, unlike you who told me to "join the marauders" amongst your multitude of insults thrown at Asylum. If people complain about the lack of OP wars or the fact kami are too strong I find it silly. The answer is there- an alliance of sorts. I assumed roleplayers stuck to the lore and no-where in the lore does it talk about marauders not killing kami whilst karavan kill kami at the same time. Tell me where it says in the kami lore that if the kami get too strong I should just abandon them join the marauders?

So the marauders or karas don't want to? Fine, up to them. But stop complaining about kami numbers when there is a solution that is well within the confines of the lore.
Nope the kami have an alliance just like the karavan and I assume the marauders. Also I am kami, why would I attack my own brethren?
There will be conflicts soon enough. Yrkanis will burn for what the matis did to thesos.

Finished reading ... had to take coffee break half way through ...

Totally agree - kill all Matis, they are very friendly with Karavan in the main and therefore hold responsibility for production of C60 and the subsequent lag on the server
They were temporarily mesmerised by the floating bags ...

did not know they had much ... someone using erigos picks then?

Nice idea - and as a Fyros guild (I think) they would be well justified in killing any Matis-kami guild ... alas, don't think there is one. Have a bit of a problem in killing our own Matis in our guild - Jaydinth is real nice, so see her as a deserted Matis, left to starve and fend for herself by nasty Matis homins such as pasty Divinesoul, we took her in and clothed her and gave her lots of cuddles and beer - she is fine now (though she winces when the Trykers start singing ... "I look too sexy for my shirt" comes to mind) [/quote]

Overall, homins will continue to play the game they want to but I do sympathise that role play is limited and homins do not like the lack of "content" and so leave, but in a sandbox we are supposed to make our own content - yes? Through the local governments? Maybe strict role play does give the game a firm foundation on which to build governments and events? But it will not happen.

Binarabi, GL Guardians of Shadows (and NOT going to Asylum for half a jar of nutella!)

did not know they had much ... someone using erigos picks then?

That would be me. Erm..... and you gave me it :P Memory issues are another reson why we need to upgrade GL :P


Binarabi, GL Guardians of Shadows (and NOT going to Asylum for half a jar of nutella!)[/quote]

You are also getting a kiss from Suboxide.

Hey Elvanae,

Thanks for the replies - I think the main problem is that if you are friend with everybody on the server, the faction role play loses its power and those who do role play, will disappear and it will become Arispotle server again.

I never implied you should change, this is a discussion regarding the implications of no faction role play, but I never intended to tell anyone what's best for them.

I just wanted to know how the old players of Arispotle think about it, if they consider it a problem or not.

I am friend with a lot of people on this server too (despite my aggressiveness in posting and debating) but at the same time I do role-play for me and my factions. Now in my case I'm marauder, most of the _faction role-play_ is PvP, but I dont think Karavans have it the same.

But, if you do no faction role play, you will make all the others go away.. in the end.. because you will win that shiny armor (just an example) by all means necessarily and they dont, because they relay on you to be a part of the faction and you are not, because you dont see it that way.

Cheers,

Exodus

So these people you speak of exo, their roleplay states and relies upon factions not teaming up? The lore dictates nothing of that sort. I think the main issue here is that some people have taken it upon themselves to make up their own roleplay. Making up your own roleplay is of course good. However this becomes an issue when their own roleplay starts trying to dictate what others should do.

Hoping others abide by the lore is somewhat understandable (and yet if someone doesn't want to roleplay nothing more you can do). Wanting others to abide by roleplay which the player has actually created is never going to happen unless you can be an ambassador of that roleplay.

@ Exodus (first post)

The plague of any RP game is that people still need to play it mechanically. In other words, regardless of my role affiliation, I am going to want to wear the best gear, both in PvP and PvE, and simple economics dictate I will get that gear by any means necessary -- bribery, disregard of RP, force, alliances.

I believe the game succeeds in selecting an interesting player base. Players that are a bit more coherent than the average. Players that are a bit more patient, calm, focused. You know what the tutorial and the subsequent gameplay don't select for? Roleplayers.

You're not supposed to know the lore in order to finish the tutorial, or to do anything on mainland. You're free to go most everywhere regardless of allegiance (even marauders if they're careful with fame). The "role" is often chosen because of mechanics, not because of player preference. If New Horizons wasn't a way to make money, how many would even align with nations? If certain pacts were not fame-restricted, how many would even choose kami or kara?

So there's your conundrum: you have a large playerbase that doesn't care about RP too much, and even if it would, often it couldn't due to needing partners. You can't enforce strict RP or non-RP, because that drives players out of the game from either side; other games simply set up two separate servers, but WG can't afford it. To add, as Virg notes, there are a lot of blurry lines if you don't go fully separatist / extremist.

Player consensus is not bound to happen anything soon. Words will not fix this, a good portion of the people don't even read forums. GM intervention could fix this, Event restrictions could somewhat fix this, a CoC that forbids you to break role would fix this (if enforced). Either you have someone with authority push in a direction or another, or we're just throwing words in the wind here.

No :/ I do not think I "make" anyone do anything they don't want to do, how can you say that.

I can't accept that just because I do, for example, Pei in mixed team, that I am causing those Kara RPers not to get Pei. My aim is to get a full Kara team, but the reality is that there are hardly ever enough people online willing or able to kill him in a full Kara team. What I want and what I can have are separate. Like I said in previous post - I am merely taking advantage of the fact that I can get 0.11 Pei points as opposed to 0.

I did not want to say this but even in your previous post I get the impression you feel like its our, non RPers, fault that your circle of RPers is small.

Mjollren has very aptly provided a few reasons as to why your circle is so small.

Lastly, you saying that I am not part of the faction just goes to show you are being close-minded despite, as you say your aim was to "know how the old players of Arispotle think about it". The difference between me and an extreme RPer as I have mentioned previously is I respect their gameplay but you have just shown to me again what I experienced with French RP Karas, that if you don't play how they play, you are not in the faction... why is it so difficult for you to respect my game play? Like I said, there is no right nor wrong way to play.

Forgive me for stating the obvious, but you are all talking about PvP roleplay, which is one type. The other type is PvE roleplay, which is rare among English speakers as far as I can tell. There is a distinction, and it isn't all pvp. I'd like to see more of both. It's very sad to hear from a French player "oh Asylum, I didn't think you guys rp'd". I do and I'm not the only one.

I have an appropriate evolving back-story for my kami Matis character along with back-stories for alts (like my traitorous cousin Mireille who shall suffer when I get my hands on her for what she's done). If you're going to RPvP, maybe you should start with a back story for your character and see what comes out of it. Play your character and not yourself. See what happens.

This is a completely different discussion than who sides with who in OP wars or at SNs. There isn't 100% rp buy in for that, so complaining about it is pointless. In every faction, there will be "I want it for me" people, which is appropriate, and sometimes the getting it for you requires compromise. Conflict without nuance is not roleplay; come up with a reasonable justification and go do it.

For me, I can justify jumping for Pei with people of all kinds, sometimes people who kill me and who I kill in appropriate context. It's not personal and I don't "hate" anybody (well, except Placio maybe, since he's forever grinning at me evilly, so it's deserved ;) ). I've learned all sorts of things about the characters on this server that have nothing to do with various government politics, which is only another rp sub-type anyway. I've made friends with some very weird people and so been able to expand my ability to rp on this world.