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#20 Added by Suboxide 1 decade ago Report | Quote [en]

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reading bittty's and and gilgamesh posts this is just how I think about this game, yes i'm a strange ari product and they are both ari products aswell.
Pls do check these forums and old ones I've been pushing mara for a long time; Did i make it happen? Probably not but have had ppl saying and blaming me on old server I was; I like to think I was a cog in the machine; Do I think diferently about mara and don't see em as a 100% pvp faction? Yes but maybe because I read the whole bible a couple of times. But I'm not gonna say how the faction has to grow that's up to the majority.
Talking about majority seems the majority likes the old laid back gaming style. Do they say you playing game wrong in offencive forum posts? NO they don't. Do they make posts asking to remove the pvp? NO they don't.

My question is why do ppl keep telling us we rp the wrong way? there is no wrong way of rp and everyone has his own idea of what rp in a sandbox is.

Do your own PVP think kill em when you get a chance recruit Virg and guild over and show karami how you think it's meant to be played. Yes virg easy for you to talk when you have over 50% of server helping you when you are attacked. Join those mara and show server how real rp is instead of hiding behind the biggest dominant faction ingame or do an op war GvG. Atleast Xodus tries while Asylum likes to talk big but when it comes to they hide and suck up to the kami and rest.
Time to stand up and show karami you call em how it's done since you like using that therm. Post on forums it's a GvG op war and ppl won't show up.

Last edited by Suboxide (1 decade ago)

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#21 Added by Exodus 1 decade ago Report | Quote [en]

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Bitttymacod (atys)

I'm going to call it the Arispotle Syndrome. It is a condition and an expression of a condition.

Thanks, yes - this is much better, I think I should request CSR to change the thread name if I cant do it myself.

Bitttymacod (atys)

I agree with much of what Gilgameesh said, especially about the simple "cool factor" of the high end gear. The fun (for some of us) is simply in the owning of that gear and swanking about in it. For others of us, it's the process of tracking down the perfect combination of materials and tools to make the perfect 100% amps.

In my world, beating competition to get materials does not make the materials more valuable. Either the materials have inherent value or they do not. The "labor theory of value" is not a defensible theory in the long term. Getting the goodies in cooperation with others (to make it easier to beat up the vorax, for instance) makes sense to me, especially if everyone gets some materials.

There are many types of role-play. I have read the teachings of the Karavan and the Kami both. Neither of them says that you are to kill homins of the opposite faction willy-nilly. In fact both of them say that you should attempt to convert other homins to the "true way of worship". The true enemies of the Kami followers are the Karavan themselves, not the followers of Jena. The true enemies of the followers of Jena are the Kami, not the worshipers of Ma-Duk. (That's my interpretation: ymmv.)

I agree with all you said so far, well said.

Bitttymacod (atys)

There are many types of role-play, and many of them are compatible with the Arispotle Syndrome. Bittty is, as you all know, an aspirant to Ranger status. But I role play by posting my observations in public places, raising alarms and viewing the world of Atys. Other people role-play by writing interesting stories into the RP forums. Some roleplay by attending meetings of the governments. Some people play Kami/Kara/Mara for PvP, then harvest season change with their friends whom they were fighting the day before. Some people play fundamentalist Kami/Karavan/Marauder personae and won't treat with anyone who is of the "opposite" faction.

I agree, I don't have a problem with the multitude of role plays, I was focused on the Faction role play, and that people with "Arispotle Syndrom" dont really follow it and can corrupt the others.

Bitttymacod (atys)

What I see as the advantage that the Arispotle Syndrome has over other (less tolerant) methods of role-play is that everyone has a chance to get the neat stuff -- thereby making the playing more fun (at least for me).

But the disadvantage is that it corrupts the other communities too and it makes it less fun for those who try to get them within the role play, it will become a flat/dull role play, don't you think?

For me it does kill all the fun to get the best gear by just healing my colleagues (example) - it could be so much more than that!

Bitttymacod (atys)

As for working with "the enemy" -- there is an old saying, "the enemy of my enemy is my friend." Machiavelli would probably have made that, "the enemy of my enemy is not my friend; but he may be useful."

Anyway, those are my thoughts. They are in opposition to yours, Exodus, since I am a product of the Arispotle Syndrome and no one has been able to convince me that doing my role-play another way would give me more pleasure.

In the end, the way to convince people to play the way you want to play is not to discuss things at length in the Forums (though that might be part of it), but to show them that it is *more fun* to play that way.

-- With Respect,
-- Mac'Od Bittty

Well it is hard to make people see it more fun, doing faction role play if they dont want to... but it has impact on others things imho.

Thanks a lot for your input,

Cheers

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#22 Added by Exodus 1 decade ago Report | Quote [en]

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Tried to change the Subject name to "Arispotle Syndrome" and failed :-)

Edited 2 times | Last edited by Exodus (1 decade ago)

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#23 Added by Bitttymacod 1 decade ago Report | Quote [en]

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Exodus, to change the title of the thread, go to the first post and select Edit to edit the post. You can then change the title within that editing window. (I just tested it on one of my own threads.)

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Remembering Tyneetryk
Phaedreas Tears - 15 years old and first(*) of true neutral guilds in Atys.
(*) This statement is contested, but we are certainly the longest lasting.
<clowns | me & you | jokers>

#24 Added by Exodus 1 decade ago Report | Quote [en]

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Bitttymacod (atys)

Exodus, to change the title of the thread, go to the first post and select Edit to edit the post. You can then change the title within that editing window. (I just tested it on one of my own threads.)

Worked! Thanks :-)

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#25 Added by Virg 1 decade ago Report | Quote [en]

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Wow subo is all I can say. You think asylum are hiding behind the kami faction? Where was the kami faction before Asylum came along? Asylum members have played a pivotable role in making the kami faction what it is today. You suggest that I leave the kami but why should I? I have always been a kami even when karas owned nearly all the 250 OPs. Just because times are good you now think I should leave?

Asylum likes to talk big but then runs and hide do they? We pvp almost everyday. We show what skills we have in that time. As for GvG we have been considering such a thing. We had a proposal from Clan before but haven't received any others as of yet.

You think I should show karami how its done? Suboxide I like the karami. It is a good thing. It has potential that other alliances might follow. Server numbers are not even right now. Kami have more players. So what do you think should be done? You suggest the biggest kami guild should join the other faction??? What I believe should happen, and what I have been saying for months now- is that kara and marauders should ally. Some people would put a label on such a thing "karauders" or whatever but I think that implies the two factions have merged. This doesn't have to be the case.

Let me put this forward from a roleplay view for marauders.
Marauders
The marauder taboos are:

Accept the authority of the new homin governments.
Bow to the authority of the Kami or Karavan.
Trampling our own values.

Where does it say they won't create temporary alignments with other factions? The marauders are meant to be resourceful (they survived on their own after all). Yet here we are. The kami are on top. The karavan don't have much and in fact are getting extremely desperate and frustrated. They are a resource. A resource the marauders should make the most of. Do you have to trade with them? No. Do you have to team with them? No. Do you have to league with them? No. Do you have to both attack the same OP at the same time? Yes. Does this mean you heal them? No. Does this mean you kill kami alongside them? Yes.

Please tell me where it says in the lore killing kami whilst karavan do at the same time is wrong.

Suboxide let me make this clear to you right now: I want our OPs to be attacked. I want the karavan and marauders to allign. I want a real fight. I talk big because currently Asylum is big. I want competition and I want to fight a stronger enemy than we ever have before. I am not hiding. I am openly supporting an alliance that could be the kami downfall.

Come get us.
Lots of love,
Virgiepoo xxxx

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Guild Leader of Syndicate
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I belong to the warrior in whom the old ways have joined the new
NB: Void respawn is where you can find the PVP, also willing to give lessons :)

#26 Added by Elvanae 1 decade ago Report | Quote [en]

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I experienced this after merger with the French Karavan guilds who attempted to be very strict on RPing with regards to factions.

It was not fun. Not for myself nor for others who expressed their frustration.

I don't believe in forcing others to play the way I play. Hence, I am glad those French Karas left the game. But I understand your point. In this scenario, the Karavan did lose out on those players who left, but from my point of view, Ari was a real community. I have Kami friends, and in Virg's case more... to imagine that I would log on to be told I cannot team with him or other friends to do the things I enjoy would be pointless for me - hence I would not want to play anymore.

Anyways, Im venting my opinion and a little of my frustration that this is something which is necessary to be discussed in the forums... it is very simple... we all have to accept that we will all play how we enjoy playing and respect this.

I do not feel, in terming myself a "liberal", that I tried to impose the way I play upon those strict RPers, whilst on the other hand, the latter would comment upon my right to trade, team with, heal/rez/help opposing players etc... to an extreme level sometimes. This is restricting to me. Tell me exactly how I restrict you? I don't, you are free to RP with those who also RP and agree with you, and if your circle is small that is not my fault because I do things you do not. I don't want to change you nor how you play. But if you want to do something just within your own faction, you need to get to know your faction better to create that repertoire and have that Pei team full of your own faction for example. Otherwise, I feel I had a right to be frustrated with the French Kara who, to me, appeared not to want to understand me, but to expect so much of me and preach this and that regardless of what things were like in my server and irrespective of my own opinions and feelings.

The reality is that different servers played differently and we are all products of those servers. Many people have grown strong friendships and I believe that this is a major factor in why most people continue to play Ryzom, because of the great community.

There is not right way nor is there a wrong way to play. All servers have their history, and as in rl, this will impact massively upon the present. I feel like you are making up some assumptions and suggestions based on what you believe is the right way for me to be playing and just like the French Kara, you don't appreciate that my past makes me who I am and how I play and that it may be different from yours.

In suggesting this "other" community, you are stating that currently:
- I don't have a real enemy
- my gear and materials have less meaning
- I am helping my enemy if I team with them to do Pei
- I am not playing my character
- the war is meaningless

Well, no, you are wrong.
When it comes to OP battles and ownership - the gloves come off... It doesn't matter to me that you are my friend or my boyfriend ( and Virg can verify the real life punches and headbutts ) to show how passionate I am about my faction. My enemy is real when I can target them and kill them, which I do.

I do not help my enemy if I get as much from the same activity as they do. I am helping myself with the opportunities I have presented before me. The alternative at times is either 0 Pei points or 0.11 Pei points.

I am most certainly playing my character. Unlike SOME, not wanting to name names..., players, I have been Karavan from day 1! Through good and bad times.

This war, right now, has more meaning to me that ever. Because the Karavan are the weaker faction. You know how long I spend to try to gain skills that matter be they in PvP or Launcher/Melee? I realise that I have to work hard to evolve into a real strong faction and I'll thank Virg to keep his suggestions about joining with Marauders to himself as he might need it soon ;)

Edited 2 times | Last edited by Elvanae (1 decade ago)

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#27 Added by Suboxide 1 decade ago Report | Quote [en]

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well virg alot of ppl see karami and such as a big insult, you pissed of allot of ppl in the guildchat I'm in. Not everyone likes to post on the forums but calling ppl like that is for alot a not done thing you seem to enjoy doing.
And it's for them a way they play the game I would like it if they teamed up but if they are against it then they are.
You telling em to team with kara is just like me telling you to do something totally different or change you whole RP-gaming way and it seems you didn't like me telling you that

Last edited by Suboxide (1 decade ago)

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#28 Added by Salazar 1 decade ago Report | Quote [de]

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Elvanae (atys)

When it comes to OP battles and ownership - the gloves come off... It doesn't matter to me that you are my friend or my boyfriend ( and Virg can verify the real life punches and headbutts ) to show how passionate I am about my faction. My enemy is real when I can target them and kill them, which I do.

But the weird/funny thing about the OPs is that officially they are neither part of politics, nor of faction RP. Pragmatically, the player gouvernments, for example, have no rights to discuss their ownership. But then, RP players in the past were often heavily attacked by PvP players if they made the outposts part of roleplay.

Last edited by Salazar (1 decade ago)

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Salazar Caradini
Filira Matia
Royal Historian
Member of the Royal Academy of Yrkanis
First Seraph of the Order of the Argo Navis

#29 Added by Elvanae 1 decade ago Report | Quote [en]

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Not really sure I am understanding you properly Salazar. But I would respond by saying that if the RPs are overwhelmed by PvPers then clearly the circle of RPs is smaller for a particular reason(s). The French Karavan I mentioned in my previous post did not have to leave the game... I never tried to pressure them into playing like me. I just wanted them to respect my game play, let them continue to play how they wish. Ah, when it comes to issues like OPs and ownership and RP - if it will affect me, for all the hard work I've put into obtaining the particular OP, a concensus should be reached, not make extreme demands upon me. Point I was trying to make is that I feel there was far less tolerance from the extreme RPers from the very start. This is still quite fresh in my mind with an extreme attitude of: "I wont share my OP mats with you if you trade with Kami/Mara"... hold on... you need to understand why I think it is ok to do this before you demand I play a certain way.

Edited 2 times | Last edited by Elvanae (1 decade ago)

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#30 Added by Jarnys 1 decade ago Report | Quote [en]

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Kami this, Karavan that, Marauders something entire different...

Why no mention of Fyros, Matis, Tryker, Zorai? There are (can be) conflicts between the races as well.

- I've seen faction-neutral guilds alternate the drill on their OP every once in a while.
- I've seen Karavan-Fyros guilds which were(are) seen as an affront by some.
- I've Kami-followers happily searching the debris of an obvious Karavan-contraption
- I've seen multi-nation/faction groups hunting down Kitin
- I've seen marauders (before they were a faction) trying to split the nations apart with fake-information
- I've seen how some people tried to attend the Templewars as simple harvesters and how that lead to other movements
- I've seen "strict" Matis use fire spells and Fyros armor
- I've seen "strict" Kamis use Karavan-OP gear
...

PvP is not the only way to show that you're part of a faction/nation some people like to talk/discuss more others show their allegiance through other actions like never using things from other factions/nations.

And what about neutrals?
Yes, I know in reality nobody is perfectly neutral but it's possible to be that in a game.
You could be Nation-X but Neutral in ragards to Kami/Kara but Marauders would still be your enemies as well as Nation-Y so how would this person react in a fight between a Kami and a Kara guild both from Nation-X?
You could be Karavan and Nation-Neutral, Marauders are still your enemies as well as Kami but how will you react in a war between two guilds from Nation X an Y that are both Karavan?
For both questions the answer will be that you either don't participate in the conflict or you're going to help those you "like" better (be it monetary incentive or friendship)

There's a multitude of different options but all I see is a focus on Kami vs Kara (vs Marauder)

Virg: I don't remember what nation Asylum's from but have you ever thought of attacking an OP that's in the hands of a Kami guild which is part of your "opposing" nation? (Matis vs Fyros or Tryker vs Zorai)

Exodus: You could call it the "Leanon syndrome" as well because in regards to RP-PvP both servers were very similar. Not so much in general RP (more on Lea) or PvP (more on Ari) though.

OK, I hope that not everyone is a lot more confused now.

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#31 Added by Binarabi 1 decade ago Report | Quote [en]

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Exodus (atys)

You play with kamis/karas/marauders etc, you get your hands on the coolest armor and then what? by the time you got your cool armor.. you are friend with everybody on the server!

Not read rest of postings yet - but just want to say it is fun to kill friends - Goldcrest is often pointing out that I am eating dirt again ...

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Binarabi
This idea of "I'm offended". Well I've got news for you. I'm offended by a lot of things too. Where do I send my list? Life is offensive. You know what I mean? Just get in touch with your outer adult. (Bill Hicks)

#32 Added by Virg 1 decade ago Report | Quote [en]

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Suboxide (atys)

well virg alot of ppl see karami and such as a big insult, you pissed of allot of ppl in the guildchat I'm in. Not everyone likes to post on the forums but calling ppl like that is for alot a not done thing you seem to enjoy doing.
And it's for them a way they play the game I would like it if they teamed up but if they are against it then they are.
You telling em to team with kara is just like me telling you to do something totally different or change you whole RP-gaming way and it seems you didn't like me telling you that

Subo I have never insulted karami or ever said it was a bad thing. In fact I have supported kami in such decisions to help marauders or kara alike during OP wars and argued both sides of the coin in peoples defense. I have friends on both sides and I can see why people would choose to fight for either. As to your guildmembers being offended from me so called "insulting karamis" I fail to see where I would have done so (especially as your guild is more in favor of marauders last I checked), if you could send me a mail as to not clog up this forum with that hopefully we can clear the air. I do however ridicule people who lash out at "karamis" when their own faction has teamed up previously with other factions.

Subo I merely suggest that kara and marauder should attack the same kami OP at the same time (twice in fact so they can each have a shot at an OP). I am not telling them to do it, I am merely suggesting it, unlike you who told me to "join the marauders" amongst your multitude of insults thrown at Asylum. If people complain about the lack of OP wars or the fact kami are too strong I find it silly. The answer is there- an alliance of sorts. I assumed roleplayers stuck to the lore and no-where in the lore does it talk about marauders not killing kami whilst karavan kill kami at the same time. Tell me where it says in the kami lore that if the kami get too strong I should just abandon them join the marauders?

So the marauders or karas don't want to? Fine, up to them. But stop complaining about kami numbers when there is a solution that is well within the confines of the lore.

Jarnys

Virg: I don't remember what nation Asylum's from but have you ever thought of attacking an OP that's in the hands of a Kami guild which is part of your "opposing" nation?

Nope the kami have an alliance just like the karavan and I assume the marauders. Also I am kami, why would I attack my own brethren?

Jarnys

Why no mention of Fyros, Matis, Tryker, Zorai? There are (can be) conflicts between the races as well.

There will be conflicts soon enough. Yrkanis will burn for what the matis did to thesos.

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Guild Leader of Syndicate
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#33 Added by Binarabi 1 decade ago Report | Quote [en]

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Finished reading ... had to take coffee break half way through ...

Jarnys (atys)

Why no mention of Fyros, Matis, Tryker, Zorai? There are (can be) conflicts between the races as well.

Totally agree - kill all Matis, they are very friendly with Karavan in the main and therefore hold responsibility for production of C60 and the subsequent lag on the server

Jarnys (atys)

- I've Kami-followers happily searching the debris of an obvious Karavan-contraption

They were temporarily mesmerised by the floating bags ...

Jarnys (atys)

- I've seen "strict" Kamis use Karavan-OP gear

did not know they had much ... someone using erigos picks then?

Jarnys (atys)

Virg: I don't remember what nation Asylum's from but have you ever thought of attacking an OP that's in the hands of a Kami guild which is part of your "opposing" nation? (Matis vs Fyros or Tryker vs Zorai)

Nice idea - and as a Fyros guild (I think) they would be well justified in killing any Matis-kami guild ... alas, don't think there is one. Have a bit of a problem in killing our own Matis in our guild - Jaydinth is real nice, so see her as a deserted Matis, left to starve and fend for herself by nasty Matis homins such as pasty Divinesoul, we took her in and clothed her and gave her lots of cuddles and beer - she is fine now (though she winces when the Trykers start singing ... "I look too sexy for my shirt" comes to mind) [/quote]

Overall, homins will continue to play the game they want to but I do sympathise that role play is limited and homins do not like the lack of "content" and so leave, but in a sandbox we are supposed to make our own content - yes? Through the local governments? Maybe strict role play does give the game a firm foundation on which to build governments and events? But it will not happen.

Binarabi, GL Guardians of Shadows (and NOT going to Asylum for half a jar of nutella!)

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#34 Added by Lacuna 1 decade ago Report | Quote [en]

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Jarnys (atys)

- I've seen "strict" Kamis use Karavan-OP gear

did not know they had much ... someone using erigos picks then?

That would be me. Erm..... and you gave me it :P Memory issues are another reson why we need to upgrade GL :P

Binarabi, GL Guardians of Shadows (and NOT going to Asylum for half a jar of nutella!)[/quote]

You are also getting a kiss from Suboxide.

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