English

Hello all,

Thanks for all your replies.

First of all, I don\t want to insult Arispotle players, calling it a "disease" is something I made up, as a name, because you keep the same mind set even if the dynamics changed and it corrupts the other communities as well, it could be called a complex imho. (because it's always the same perspective.)

I only created this thread to show you another one, where all your gear and materials and effort have more meaning because you have a real enemy, a faction enemy and you fight for resources and by this "complex" you are killing the faction role play community, small as it is.

And it's not all PvP as everybody here sees it, doing Pei with other faction is something I find odd too, you are helping to gear up your enemy.

Helping your enemy faction at season change while they own your OPs is another example, I don\t want to get into details (dont want people to think I'm attacking anyone); I just find it odd why people don't play their character, a multi-complex character.

Basically, your view is that we are all one big family and the faction war is well... meaningless - it was never about PvP but Faction role play!

That was my concern - again, sorry of I offended anyone, English is not my first language and sometimes it takes me a few tries to make myself clear.

Yes, clearly, everybody is free to do what they want, we are only talking here. This thread was targeting those that do faction role play, in a relatively active way.

Cheers

I'm going to call it the Arispotle Syndrome. It is a condition and an expression of a condition.

I agree with much of what Gilgameesh said, especially about the simple "cool factor" of the high end gear. The fun (for some of us) is simply in the owning of that gear and swanking about in it. For others of us, it's the process of tracking down the perfect combination of materials and tools to make the perfect 100% amps.

In my world, beating competition to get materials does not make the materials more valuable. Either the materials have inherent value or they do not. The "labor theory of value" is not a defensible theory in the long term. Getting the goodies in cooperation with others (to make it easier to beat up the vorax, for instance) makes sense to me, especially if everyone gets some materials.

There are many types of role-play. I have read the teachings of the Karavan and the Kami both. Neither of them says that you are to kill homins of the opposite faction willy-nilly. In fact both of them say that you should attempt to convert other homins to the "true way of worship". The true enemies of the Kami followers are the Karavan themselves, not the followers of Jena. The true enemies of the followers of Jena are the Kami, not the worshipers of Ma-Duk. (That's my interpretation: ymmv.)

There are many types of role-play, and many of them are compatible with the Arispotle Syndrome. Bittty is, as you all know, an aspirant to Ranger status. But I role play by posting my observations in public places, raising alarms and viewing the world of Atys. Other people role-play by writing interesting stories into the RP forums. Some roleplay by attending meetings of the governments. Some people play Kami/Kara/Mara for PvP, then harvest season change with their friends whom they were fighting the day before. Some people play fundamentalist Kami/Karavan/Marauder personae and won't treat with anyone who is of the "opposite" faction.

What I see as the advantage that the Arispotle Syndrome has over other (less tolerant) methods of role-play is that everyone has a chance to get the neat stuff -- thereby making the playing more fun (at least for me).

As for working with "the enemy" -- there is an old saying, "the enemy of my enemy is my friend." Machiavelli would probably have made that, "the enemy of my enemy is not my friend; but he may be useful."

Anyway, those are my thoughts. They are in opposition to yours, Exodus, since I am a product of the Arispotle Syndrome and no one has been able to convince me that doing my role-play another way would give me more pleasure.

In the end, the way to convince people to play the way you want to play is not to discuss things at length in the Forums (though that might be part of it), but to show them that it is *more fun* to play that way.

-- With Respect,
-- Mac'Od Bittty

In terms of doing NPCs with other factions for me this is my take on it:

Let us say chanchey holds a server hunt. A kami guild does not go because they don't want to help gear up the enemy. The chanchey hunt goes ahead and kills the NPCs as always. The possible points this kami guild could have earned are divided amongst kami, kara and neutrals. What could have been points for the kami are now in fact divided amongst three factions. By not attending the kami guild have actually given some of their would-be points to the karavan.

Therefore by attending these hunts you are claiming a split of the loot yourself. In claiming this percentage you are actually denying the enemy these points.

Through this logic hunting with the enemy is in actual fact reducing their loot percentage and not actually helping them at all.

reading bittty's and and gilgamesh posts this is just how I think about this game, yes i'm a strange ari product and they are both ari products aswell.
Pls do check these forums and old ones I've been pushing mara for a long time; Did i make it happen? Probably not but have had ppl saying and blaming me on old server I was; I like to think I was a cog in the machine; Do I think diferently about mara and don't see em as a 100% pvp faction? Yes but maybe because I read the whole bible a couple of times. But I'm not gonna say how the faction has to grow that's up to the majority.
Talking about majority seems the majority likes the old laid back gaming style. Do they say you playing game wrong in offencive forum posts? NO they don't. Do they make posts asking to remove the pvp? NO they don't.

My question is why do ppl keep telling us we rp the wrong way? there is no wrong way of rp and everyone has his own idea of what rp in a sandbox is.

Do your own PVP think kill em when you get a chance recruit Virg and guild over and show karami how you think it's meant to be played. Yes virg easy for you to talk when you have over 50% of server helping you when you are attacked. Join those mara and show server how real rp is instead of hiding behind the biggest dominant faction ingame or do an op war GvG. Atleast Xodus tries while Asylum likes to talk big but when it comes to they hide and suck up to the kami and rest.
Time to stand up and show karami you call em how it's done since you like using that therm. Post on forums it's a GvG op war and ppl won't show up.

Thanks, yes - this is much better, I think I should request CSR to change the thread name if I cant do it myself.

I agree with all you said so far, well said.

I agree, I don't have a problem with the multitude of role plays, I was focused on the Faction role play, and that people with "Arispotle Syndrom" dont really follow it and can corrupt the others.

But the disadvantage is that it corrupts the other communities too and it makes it less fun for those who try to get them within the role play, it will become a flat/dull role play, don't you think?

For me it does kill all the fun to get the best gear by just healing my colleagues (example) - it could be so much more than that!

Well it is hard to make people see it more fun, doing faction role play if they dont want to... but it has impact on others things imho.

Thanks a lot for your input,

Cheers

Tried to change the Subject name to "Arispotle Syndrome" and failed :-)

Exodus, to change the title of the thread, go to the first post and select Edit to edit the post. You can then change the title within that editing window. (I just tested it on one of my own threads.)

Worked! Thanks :-)

Wow subo is all I can say. You think asylum are hiding behind the kami faction? Where was the kami faction before Asylum came along? Asylum members have played a pivotable role in making the kami faction what it is today. You suggest that I leave the kami but why should I? I have always been a kami even when karas owned nearly all the 250 OPs. Just because times are good you now think I should leave?

Asylum likes to talk big but then runs and hide do they? We pvp almost everyday. We show what skills we have in that time. As for GvG we have been considering such a thing. We had a proposal from Clan before but haven't received any others as of yet.

You think I should show karami how its done? Suboxide I like the karami. It is a good thing. It has potential that other alliances might follow. Server numbers are not even right now. Kami have more players. So what do you think should be done? You suggest the biggest kami guild should join the other faction??? What I believe should happen, and what I have been saying for months now- is that kara and marauders should ally. Some people would put a label on such a thing "karauders" or whatever but I think that implies the two factions have merged. This doesn't have to be the case.

Let me put this forward from a roleplay view for marauders.
Marauders
The marauder taboos are:

• Accept the authority of the new homin governments.
• Bow to the authority of the Kami or Karavan.
• Trampling our own values.

Where does it say they won't create temporary alignments with other factions? The marauders are meant to be resourceful (they survived on their own after all). Yet here we are. The kami are on top. The karavan don't have much and in fact are getting extremely desperate and frustrated. They are a resource. A resource the marauders should make the most of. Do you have to trade with them? No. Do you have to team with them? No. Do you have to league with them? No. Do you have to both attack the same OP at the same time? Yes. Does this mean you heal them? No. Does this mean you kill kami alongside them? Yes.

Please tell me where it says in the lore killing kami whilst karavan do at the same time is wrong.


Suboxide let me make this clear to you right now: I want our OPs to be attacked. I want the karavan and marauders to allign. I want a real fight. I talk big because currently Asylum is big. I want competition and I want to fight a stronger enemy than we ever have before. I am not hiding. I am openly supporting an alliance that could be the kami downfall.

Come get us.
Lots of love,
Virgiepoo xxxx

I experienced this after merger with the French Karavan guilds who attempted to be very strict on RPing with regards to factions.

It was not fun. Not for myself nor for others who expressed their frustration.

I don't believe in forcing others to play the way I play. Hence, I am glad those French Karas left the game. But I understand your point. In this scenario, the Karavan did lose out on those players who left, but from my point of view, Ari was a real community. I have Kami friends, and in Virg's case more... to imagine that I would log on to be told I cannot team with him or other friends to do the things I enjoy would be pointless for me - hence I would not want to play anymore.

Anyways, Im venting my opinion and a little of my frustration that this is something which is necessary to be discussed in the forums... it is very simple... we all have to accept that we will all play how we enjoy playing and respect this.

I do not feel, in terming myself a "liberal", that I tried to impose the way I play upon those strict RPers, whilst on the other hand, the latter would comment upon my right to trade, team with, heal/rez/help opposing players etc... to an extreme level sometimes. This is restricting to me. Tell me exactly how I restrict you? I don't, you are free to RP with those who also RP and agree with you, and if your circle is small that is not my fault because I do things you do not. I don't want to change you nor how you play. But if you want to do something just within your own faction, you need to get to know your faction better to create that repertoire and have that Pei team full of your own faction for example. Otherwise, I feel I had a right to be frustrated with the French Kara who, to me, appeared not to want to understand me, but to expect so much of me and preach this and that regardless of what things were like in my server and irrespective of my own opinions and feelings.

The reality is that different servers played differently and we are all products of those servers. Many people have grown strong friendships and I believe that this is a major factor in why most people continue to play Ryzom, because of the great community.

There is not right way nor is there a wrong way to play. All servers have their history, and as in rl, this will impact massively upon the present. I feel like you are making up some assumptions and suggestions based on what you believe is the right way for me to be playing and just like the French Kara, you don't appreciate that my past makes me who I am and how I play and that it may be different from yours.

In suggesting this "other" community, you are stating that currently:
- I don't have a real enemy
- my gear and materials have less meaning
- I am helping my enemy if I team with them to do Pei
- I am not playing my character
- the war is meaningless

Well, no, you are wrong.
When it comes to OP battles and ownership - the gloves come off... It doesn't matter to me that you are my friend or my boyfriend ( and Virg can verify the real life punches and headbutts ) to show how passionate I am about my faction. My enemy is real when I can target them and kill them, which I do.

I do not help my enemy if I get as much from the same activity as they do. I am helping myself with the opportunities I have presented before me. The alternative at times is either 0 Pei points or 0.11 Pei points.

I am most certainly playing my character. Unlike SOME, not wanting to name names..., players, I have been Karavan from day 1! Through good and bad times.

This war, right now, has more meaning to me that ever. Because the Karavan are the weaker faction. You know how long I spend to try to gain skills that matter be they in PvP or Launcher/Melee? I realise that I have to work hard to evolve into a real strong faction and I'll thank Virg to keep his suggestions about joining with Marauders to himself as he might need it soon ;)

well virg alot of ppl see karami and such as a big insult, you pissed of allot of ppl in the guildchat I'm in. Not everyone likes to post on the forums but calling ppl like that is for alot a not done thing you seem to enjoy doing.
And it's for them a way they play the game I would like it if they teamed up but if they are against it then they are.
You telling em to team with kara is just like me telling you to do something totally different or change you whole RP-gaming way and it seems you didn't like me telling you that

Not really sure I am understanding you properly Salazar. But I would respond by saying that if the RPs are overwhelmed by PvPers then clearly the circle of RPs is smaller for a particular reason(s). The French Karavan I mentioned in my previous post did not have to leave the game... I never tried to pressure them into playing like me. I just wanted them to respect my game play, let them continue to play how they wish. Ah, when it comes to issues like OPs and ownership and RP - if it will affect me, for all the hard work I've put into obtaining the particular OP, a concensus should be reached, not make extreme demands upon me. Point I was trying to make is that I feel there was far less tolerance from the extreme RPers from the very start. This is still quite fresh in my mind with an extreme attitude of: "I wont share my OP mats with you if you trade with Kami/Mara"... hold on... you need to understand why I think it is ok to do this before you demand I play a certain way.

Kami this, Karavan that, Marauders something entire different...

Why no mention of Fyros, Matis, Tryker, Zorai? There are (can be) conflicts between the races as well.

- I've seen faction-neutral guilds alternate the drill on their OP every once in a while.
- I've seen Karavan-Fyros guilds which were(are) seen as an affront by some.
- I've Kami-followers happily searching the debris of an obvious Karavan-contraption
- I've seen multi-nation/faction groups hunting down Kitin
- I've seen marauders (before they were a faction) trying to split the nations apart with fake-information
- I've seen how some people tried to attend the Templewars as simple harvesters and how that lead to other movements
- I've seen "strict" Matis use fire spells and Fyros armor
- I've seen "strict" Kamis use Karavan-OP gear
...

PvP is not the only way to show that you're part of a faction/nation some people like to talk/discuss more others show their allegiance through other actions like never using things from other factions/nations.

And what about neutrals?
Yes, I know in reality nobody is perfectly neutral but it's possible to be that in a game.
You could be Nation-X but Neutral in ragards to Kami/Kara but Marauders would still be your enemies as well as Nation-Y so how would this person react in a fight between a Kami and a Kara guild both from Nation-X?
You could be Karavan and Nation-Neutral, Marauders are still your enemies as well as Kami but how will you react in a war between two guilds from Nation X an Y that are both Karavan?
For both questions the answer will be that you either don't participate in the conflict or you're going to help those you "like" better (be it monetary incentive or friendship)

There's a multitude of different options but all I see is a focus on Kami vs Kara (vs Marauder)

Virg: I don't remember what nation Asylum's from but have you ever thought of attacking an OP that's in the hands of a Kami guild which is part of your "opposing" nation? (Matis vs Fyros or Tryker vs Zorai)

Exodus: You could call it the "Leanon syndrome" as well because in regards to RP-PvP both servers were very similar. Not so much in general RP (more on Lea) or PvP (more on Ari) though.

OK, I hope that not everyone is a lot more confused now.