IDEAS FOR RYZOM

Mjollren (atys)

Bitttymacod (atys)

  As it is, I have seen no indication of a glut of OP materials.  There are no offers in the trade forum for "OP mat to trade for xxx sup mats", or even "q250 rubbarn jeweler's tool for sale, make offer." 

The trade forum is dead, I would not take it as indicator of anything really. Use the op registry app and try to trade with op owners directly, that could get you closer to a balanced image...

I fail to understand that argument. Do you mean that OP owners, guild leaders etc. do not read the trade
forum?

Binarabi (atys)

Not all kami were kicked - only the 1 ... so 2 kami guilds were accepted by Mauro - made a team of us, not a full team tho - think 2 kami fought side-by-side with karavan *is sick in a bag*

So the marauders did fight with some kami? Interesting as I was led to believe they kicked all the kami and would never accept any help.

If I am honest the next fight I would like to see karavan and marauders join forces in some way. Both have complained about numbers before and if both can fight alongside kami I don't see why they can't fight along side each other! I hope to see more involvement of all 3 factions in future OP wars :)

We've had proposals regarding fight mechanics, in order to forcefully even an outpost fight. They were met with some enthusiasm and some criticism, I'm not going to rehash that debate.

A good point that was made during those debates was that "numbers count very much"; skill will obviously help reduce a party's handicap, but not to large extents. I'll draw a line in the sand and say 2:1 is already too much if the skill disparity is not huge (like 20 f2ps against 10 masters).

Let's consider the current situation: there are excessively many OP mats going around. The average guild has 5-10 active members in a week (again, it's a line in the sand, some have more, some less), and an item lasts certainly more than a week. What if OP mats were enough for just the owning guild, then? Let's say .. 7 q250 rubbarn per month, or 10 q200, 13 q150 and so on.

This suddenly slashes the motives behind the bigger alliance (whichever it is at the moment), because the more you grow the more difficult it is to share fairly or effectively. Doesn't matter if you have 4 guilds x 20 players or 8 guilds x 10 players, you can only make 7 masters happy; everyone else would be doing it as a business (helping to get help in return) or out of altruism. Anyone pondering to join the bigger side will have to think how they're new and how they're going to be at the bottom of the priority list. By contrast, anyone joining the weakest side will have a good position to negotiate from: "if I join you, you put me on a priority list for awesome gear".

In short, what I'm proposing is to apply economic pressure, the only thing that's proven to work. People might seem to be happy and disinterested when they grow fat on the spoils of war. In a famine, it's suddenly more efficient to adopt a homin-eat-homin attitude. Stockpiling works only to an extent, and if you're saving your best gear for tomorrow you are putting yourself at a slight disadvantage today.. which is exploitable in battle.

Of course, all this works on the assumption the prize is rewarding enough ... maybe the OP mats could use an even bigger boost to make them *really* desirable, but that's another topic.

Not all kami were kicked - only the 1 ... so 2 kami guilds were accepted by Mauro - made a team of us, not a full team tho

Mjollren -- I am not interested in acting to "create the right climate for the powerplayers" (whatever that might mean).  I just want to keep the possibility open that a social person like my GL might score a piece of armilo or two from time to time. Drastically reducing the number of OP mats means that will never happen.

--B

Thank you very much for your friendly response, Lacuna.

I agree that it is less easy for a guildless neutral to get scarce materials, and it is a handicap I freely and happily accept. Further on, yes, I can get some of that from friends, even from friends in all factions. Only, that is not the point when speaking about trade which means that even an "enemy", unless hindered by strong feelings or self-imposed restrictions, will make the deal if considered favorable.

Granted one can get a lot for sup mats. Yet for me so far, sup mats are mostly more valuable than op mat which I do not need at all but is just a nice to have, as I have all crafting masters except a handful which will be done soon, and always favor a variety of mats over the advantages of op mat.

Yet the point was whether there is abundance of op mat. In the past, there was, but the merge brought grim restrictions. Before, every armilo and rubbarn OP was worth while equally, nowadays, only armilo 250 (limitedly also 200) and rubbarn 250 and 200 are of major worth and interest.

Tekorn 250 was always rare, everybody chose to pile it up for rubbarn series, understandably, below, it was not too rare, the lower levels abundant. And though I see some use for lower level tekorn, especially for PvP, that demand should be largely satisfied already, even with q50 or so tekorn/rubbarn launchers and pistols (I did all my dagger training from 150 to master with 2 sets of tekorn daggers q200 before the fusion, thus such a weapon only used in PvP is hardly wearing off too soon).

Question is, thus, if offer of grind mat q250 and max occupation produce (though, admittedly, the missing of the advanced occupations is devaluating that one largely) are such a worthless offer that they are ignored, or that op mats are worth more than one or more hours of playtime (which would be equivalent to, e.g., 1000 choice mat q250 or a stack of, say, 108 occ produce q70), or a moderate multiple thereof.

If OP mat is worth more than hours of playtime at max level, then it is already scarce. If it were not, my offer might have been of interest for somebody. Hope not to have bored.

Binarabi (atys)

Virg (atys)

I believe there is an alternative route. Recently we saw marauders attack a karavan outpost. Kami were present on both sides of the fighting (although kami were kicked from the marauder side).

Not all kami were kicked - only the 1 ... so 2 kami guilds were accepted by Mauro - made a team of us, not a full team tho - think 2 kami fought side-by-side with karavan *is sick in a bag*

Guilds whose primary allegiance is to a nation will always fight against the Marauders meaning some Kami and Karavan guilds would stand side by side against the chaos of the Marauders.

Guilds whose primary allegiance is to a power will always attack the opposing power meaning Kami/Karavan would side with Marauders against the opposing power.

Both groups are equally justified using the justification of "The enemy of my enemy is my friend."

Binarabi (atys)

Not all kami were kicked - only the 1 ... so 2 kami guilds were accepted by Mauro - made a team of us, not a full team tho

Interesting perspective.. I dont wanna hurt your feelings cause you're a nice gal, but in reality we pretty much ignored you (you = kamis as a whole)..... :-/

But this really made it clear that next time I will kick each and everyone of you... because from fun and "killing karavan/matis" you made it political statement that we asked for help and we accepted you, which we didnt.

Hugs and kisses

Gkr (atys)

you made it political statement that we asked for help and we accepted you, which we didn't.

Nope - you never asked for help - but killing Karavan at any opportunity seems logical - like Gorran says "The enemy of my enemy is my friend" or at least when s/he is killing my enemy

Hi Gkr,

Gkr (atys)

If I understand correctly you;re saying if we reduce the production of OP mats, we kill the OP wars all together because nobody will invest in owning them?

No, I did not, and I fail to see that this would follow. In my opinion, reduction of OP mat production would most probably not increase or decrease the frequency of OP wars as it did not in the past. The fusion has radically reduced OP mat availability without leading to lots of OP wars.

The starting point of my comment was Mjollren's proposal to reduce OP mat production. He seemed to conclude that lack of interest in OP wars stems from abundance of OP mat. So his, not my idea was to reduce OP mat production to incite more OP wars.

I did not comment on OP wars, rather on the alleged abundance of OP mats, similar as Bittty did. If there were too many OP mats, some would spill over into the markets. They do not. Instead, few are given to friends, here and then, sometimes irrespective of faction allegiance, mostly inside factions.

My point was that, if OP mats were abundant, trading (RL) hours of ingame activity like digging grind mat or occupation certs/produce would be a valid currency for trade. Playtime is possibly the most valuable resource for many players: e.g. all who do not love digging or cert grabbing grind and have limited time to play the game, maybe PvP or similar.

Therefore, I conclude that there is no abundance of OP mat. There is rather shortage, not only by higher numbers of players, but also by the devaluation of rubbarn and armilo OPs after merge.

Hope it is clearer now. Greetings.

Gkr (atys)

Lets make this clear once and for all... people dont use forum to trade OP mats, they use IG /tell - this is not a big world where we need to use forums.. we all know each other... and things dont change so often in this game to need a forum to reach people that have OP mats...
Let me make this even more easier: Dont use forum trade for any kind of statistics.

Well, this simply means: There is no abundance of OP mat. I lived in a world where there was, extreme abundance for some classes, though not for all. The world, by population, was even smaller than ours today, people knew one another even better, spoke the same language, and the vast majority logged in the same timezone.

So, normally, there should not have been trade of OP mats over forums, especially as it was really easy, then, to get OP mats by asking, and there was an additional channel (a special event guild) distributing OP mat to guildless players and guilds without OP and faction/alliance.

Indeed, there was trade over forums, to some extent. Moreover, it was easy to obtain the more abundant classes of OP mat that way, while widely unlikely to get those in short offer.

The question is: Why placing a WTB in forums? I read people asking for OP mat in universe channel. Beneath that they were much mocked and derided by some, they only reached readers of unverse at that time. A forum post may be found for a longer period, in any timezone, and is easily translated in different languages. Even Goo translate suffices most times if needed at all.

And a trade offer is communication among peers, without personal, roleplay, or allegiance matters interfering too much. Trade is a link even between enemies, for mutual advantage. And it is not that the trade forums do not work at all, though they are not working well, lamentably. The reasons for are manifold, and exceed the scope of this discussion.

Hey there... I totally respect you as a player and all that... but... all this coming from you, as a neutral player not engaging in any PvP... welll it's kinda dry...

You have almost no real experience when it comes to OP and PvP (that's my understanding, sorry if I'm assuming wrongly) and I'm only attacking your statements because I have seen this pattern before, ie:

people with no PvP/OP war interest telling what is good and what is bad... but you dont know how it feels when you are 30 vs 80 - once you do PvP, once you get involved I'm sure your perspective will change because you will realize some things the way they are right now, make a lot of other futile.

So if I were you I would keep my statements a bit more general than saying "this is horrible idea" - Why? we are trying to find a way here to make the OP wars more interesting as in, divide the armies - and by that I mean, each fraction have equal opportunity.

So please join the conversation but be realistic about what you can put on the table and what not...

Bitttymacod (atys)

Mjollren -- I am not interested in acting to "create the right climate for the powerplayers" (whatever that might mean).  I just want to keep the possibility open that a social person like my GL might score a piece of armilo or two from time to time. Drastically reducing the number of OP mats means that will never happen.

--B

Bah, so in the end you dont mind about the way is implemented right now because "it works for you (tm)". that is very, very selfish.............. but then again... I wont judge you... fight for your interest.. and I appreciate that you made it clear that is just a personal reason why you dont agree with Mjollren's idea.