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IDEAS FOR RYZOM
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#22 Added by Gkr 1 decade ago [en] 

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Virg (atys)
As I have said before I believe it is a good idea except it would turn OP wars elitest and remove a vital aspect of the game that introduces people to PvP.

Yricl the issue with OP wars for karas and marauders is not numbers it is tactics. People have won against worst odds just after the merge- the only thing preventing them winning now is that they aren't thinking tactically enough. Kami have fought hard to be in the position they are in- it wasn't handed to them because of numbers. Don't expect that without similar work you are going to walk in and win an OP war.

I'm sorry but I'm going to challenge this statement, not trying to start a flame war, but the difference between kamis and the others are that, while the "elitist pvpers" might be the same at numbers, you guys have +100 healers (which we could consider new to pvp) - which is fine, and keeps you on top, the ultimate winner - but I believe this is the reason some people want to change the mechanics, to get the chance of a fair fight, and once we fight 50 vs 50, we can prove that too much quantity makes quality irrelevant, as it is right now.

But I understand why this might be a bad idea, on the long run it would become a limit/restriction rather than something useful/fun.

So bottom line is, let it be the way it is, if players leave so be it, kamis at some point will get bored of winning and leave and probably someone else will take their place..

Last edited by Exodus (1 decade ago) | Reason: cant spell

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#23 Added by Casy 1 decade ago [en] 

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Waiting for people to get bored is what worked well on leanon and arispotle, sadly... It will eventually work but i don't think that's the best way to go.

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Casy * Foreign Secretary * Alliance of Honor
Intensive Care Bear

#24 Added by Suboxide 1 decade ago [en] 

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but banning low lvl and new ppl from op's will work?

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#25 Added by Virg 1 decade ago [en] 

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Gkr (atys)
I'm sorry but I'm going to challenge this statement, not trying to start a flame war, but the difference between kamis and the others are that, while the "elitist pvpers" might be the same at numbers, you guys have +100 healers (which we could consider new to pvp) - which is fine, and keeps you on top, the ultimate winner - but I believe this is the reason some people want to change the mechanics, to get the chance of a fair fight, and once we fight 50 vs 50, we can prove that too much quantity makes quality irrelevant, as it is right now.

I have had many chats with leaders of different factions and I stand by my statement. Marauders have beaten other factions with a lot less numbers before and I don't see why they can't do it again. In fact I can see why they can't- because kami have improved their tactics. Marauders and kara need to up their game pure and simple and I really hope they do- the 2 main reasons I wanted to own the top OPs was because of mats (of course) and also because of the wars they would generate.

Numbers do help- but I would rather have tactics over numbers any day. Just so happens right now we have both.

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#26 Added by Alric 1 decade ago [en] 

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@Tumbleweed :

We want fun greats wars. OP battle can't do it now. A 20vs20 is never seen in Arena, seems you are rookie to say this stuff.

@Keldun

We don't cry, we have go through this situation since 2 years. What the point to have Op if no one can't take them ? If we ally with karas, what the point to have 3 factions ?

@Virg

You are wrong ^^ I chat with you and I know all leaders of pvp guilds who are used to fight. The max we have do to win an OP is : 16 against 40 ( on a 50 OP so PNJ are fine ) on Aniro,in the merge, we were 54 vs 80 today some french and german maras stop or get banned but now, Kamis are still the same but Maras not ( some players stopped or banned, english players just came Maras now, before there wasn't any ).

Our tactics are fine. Really, they don't need improvements? For instance last OP, I don't reveal all, but we were 25 against 80. And we had like 6 healers. So we had 19 people to crush 80, it's impossible.

Please consider this new idea to bring more fun emotions ^^

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Ser Alric Courtisan à temps plein.


Kiriga
Pour moi Alric est le Matis Noir par excellence. Terriblement beau et attachant, manipulateur, menteur, la totale quoi.

#27 Added by Afriel 1 decade ago [en] 

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There was a story I heard before in Ari that there is this one guild who almost if not all own all important OPs and it was also stated in that story that they attacked both Kami and Kara OPs. Basing from that story this guild is always out numbered in OP battles yet they succeded in almost OP battles. Even the CSR, I'm not sure if this is true is asking that guild to distribute their OPs.

When I heard this story at first I don't believe it but when I started to join OP battles I started to learn that in OP battles, the one who will win is the one who knows the technicalities of OP battles meaning the objective of the OP battles.

I started to do pvp (tag) or whatever it called a few days ago, this one is very different in OP battles in this type of pvp you just need to kill all the enemies then you win on the other hand in OP battle you don't need to kill all the enemies to win you just need to meet the objective of the OP battle.

Conclusion: changing the current setup in OP battle is not the solution.

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#28 Added by Suboxide 1 decade ago [en] 

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Yup true Afriel guilds like TI where able with GREAT tacktics and a VERY good organisation to win op battles where they where greatly outnumbered in.
And ppl like me would love to see more op wars (tagged pvp isn't my thing) but regulating it would mean the end for me to show up at one and would probably for alot of ppl.

Btw. Why not organize a 20v20 tagged fight it's a sandbox it's possible to do will take some time and organisationn, and you'll probably need to drop in a price since I've found out most ppl don't come if there is no incentive.

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#29 Added by Tumbleweed 1 decade ago [en] 

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There was a story I heard before in Ari that there is this one guild who almost if not all own all important OPs and it was also stated in that story that they attacked both Kami and Kara OPs. Basing from that story this guild is always out numbered in OP battles yet they succeded in almost OP battles. Even the CSR, I'm not sure if this is true is asking that guild to distribute their OPs.

Success of the guild you are referring to has nothing to do with them being pro at OP battles. First, they had LOTS of healing alts. Someone claimed they had over 90 accounts while there were about 30 actual players. Second, and most important part, that guild actively used (and they admitted that) third party software, allowing them to manage multiple characters at once, which granted them advantage in battles other players couldn't compete with. I believe changes in official policy concerning use of alts, namely prohibition of third party software and multiple alts at OP battles and boss hunts, were made after owners became aware of this situation.
We want fun greats wars. OP battle can't do it now. A 20vs20 is never seen in Arena, seems you are rookie to say this stuff.

Actually on Arispotle there used to be a couple of PvP tournaments at Arena with rules, prizes and such. Also there was regular event - battle over L50 Outpost near FH, with two proxy guilds declaring on each other. Everyone could come and join either side to fight for fun and giggles. Guilds and faction alignments didn't matter, people fought over useless OP just to have fun. It seems exactly like what you ask for. 

Our tactics are fine. Really, they don't need improvements? For instance last OP, I don't reveal all, but we were 25 against 80. And we had like 6 healers. So we had 19 people to crush 80, it's impossible.

I agreed. Every time someone mention that some guild or faction won because of awesome tactics, i laugh. Pile in as much 250's as you can, add a bunch of launchers, that's all you need. Yeah, right. Tactics own.

Say, we have Side A - 100 players with team of launchers, and Side B - 50 players, no launchers. Say, all stats, gear and levels of characters are equal. NPC guards are non-factor. Please, Virg, enlighten me, i'm dying to know what tactic should use Side B to beat Side A in this given situation? Except for common tricks, like multiple attacks, aggro dragging, aggressing tribes and such.

#30 Added by Suboxide 1 decade ago [en] 

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about your tacktics thumbleweed well there are quite alot like lure ppl away from their healers (one kami are really bad in at time), so you can sloughter one by one then when a healer tries to get close enough to heal that person then kill the healers (I've seen this be used alot and don't understand ppl still falling for it) => a 50player faction could easly kill a 100 player faction this way.
Another one as a defender defend away from the guards and hope the attackers forget about guards and just wanna kill the defender (great tacktic used loads of times with success)
=> There are alot more that can give a smart small group the upper hand at op's (don't forget an op is not about killing ppl at all it's about getting treshold you don't need to kill a single kami/kara/mara you only need to kill guards or keep them alive)

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#31 Added by Suboxide 1 decade ago [en] 

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Good luck finiding an q50 op atm a faction wants to give up thumbleweed cookies tried hard but nobody wanted for some reason give an op to cookies to be used for this purpose (wich is sad).
It really heated some intence RP stuff one op had to stay in kara hands because of waterboy roleplay another op had to stay in kami hands for another roleplay story only one guild roleplays aroyund and so on, infact every q50 op sounded like the most important roleplay op in game so cookies gave up on trying to get an op for this kind off fun.

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#32 Added by Afriel 1 decade ago [en] 

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Tumbleweed, What I heard is that they are greatly outnumbered still they won OP battles. So even if they have millions of alts but during OP battle they are greatly outnumbered. As what you said during those time that they use 3rd party software to coordinate/manage toons to achieve one goal. I believe this coordination/manage toons can be done among actual players to achieve one goal without using 3rd party software. It is hard since each of us have different play style but it is not impossible.

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#33 Added by Casy 1 decade ago [en] 

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Now... don't compare Asylum with the old TI adversaries... I played some Aris OPs. Yes, you could crush those 100 people with 20. They were that bad. Ask Virg or some other Asylum if they think that the current kami force with Drezar's leadership is as bad? Beware, he might kill you for that question.

Fighting in a ratio above 3:1 depends entirely on the adversary to act totally out of line. We appreciate that there are some Kamis now who do a better lead. We have won any op below 3:1 so far.

All the attack we did in the recent past were way above 3:1. It's not only one faction we are facing, everyone wants to punish the players that play the evil side. So we might just leave, as very many marauders already left because of it. 

Sit it out and you'll get your 80 people server back, and no trouble at all.

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Casy * Foreign Secretary * Alliance of Honor
Intensive Care Bear

#34 Added by Suboxide 1 decade ago [en] 

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Casy (atys)
 It's not only one faction we are facing, everyone wants to punish the players that play the evil side.

=> isn't the evil side the kittins and the '3' factions a choise of beliefs you make and try to defend?

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#35 Added by Casy 1 decade ago [en] 

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It's not my decision to make. Kitin are of course on my kill list and i don't cooperate with other factions above a very low level unless it's Kitin to kill. I can't force anyone to not see marauders as the prime evil and group up to fight us together. I can't force anyone to obey the lore of the factions they are playing and not help their enemies. 

On the other hand, cooperation is so easy. The whole game gets very easy and boring. The people who want ryzom to be a chat platform with peaceful mini game will always win cause they can simply wait for the others to be fed up and leaving.

It's the same with most CSR and Devs. I was told by a high ranking CSR any maraud stuff is of low priority because we have gotten so few in numbers. A self fulfilling prophecy of course. While everyone else gets free stuff (NH, kitin camps) and pve activity until they can't take it anymore (governments) we are left alone with an unfinished camp and worse than defunct guards. Wait it out, and the complaints will cease.

Yes it's bitter. It has been a year now.

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Casy * Foreign Secretary * Alliance of Honor
Intensive Care Bear

#36 Added by Gkr 1 decade ago [en] 

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Casy (atys)
.

It's the same with most CSR and Devs. I was told by a high ranking CSR any maraud stuff is of low priority because we have gotten so few in numbers. A self fulfilling prophecy of course. While everyone else gets free stuff (NH, kitin camps) and pve activity until they can't take it anymore (governments) we are left alone with an unfinished camp and worse than defunct guards. Wait it out, and the complaints will cease.

Not to mention some of CSR(s) have no idea how marauders work and they are suppose to offer us support! :-)

And I agree with Casy, I've seen this happening, I used to be Karavan and now Im Marauder and both kamis and karas, when they feel threaten they join their forces against us!

From the RP point of view, this is really, really, but i mean, really, really sad for the Karavans, as Kamis basically took most of their OPs - I always see karavan's actions as slavery. (ie someone takes over your OPs yet, you fight for them against other threat, but not for your own freedom?!).

But anyhow, I dont think this is a working solution on the long run (the one provided in this thread), if you have low numbers to begin with, you cant do much/ask for much.

The solution is to actually find a way to make karavan and kamis hate each other, be truly different factions that do actually fight each other.

Im just a dreamer..

Last edited by Gkr (1 decade ago)

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