English

Faith is more dependent on a belief that something is real rather than seeing it first hand.

Is trust really that much different?

You trust someone under the belief that they're trust worthy. The difference is that trust is formed from what you know about someone or what you believe you know about someone, you can easily get it wrong.

Although we are straying from the topic now.

At next kami meeting Virg we need the input from other guilds so it is not just a small number arguing stuff with Daomei.
Homins who are camping and feel they have been forced into this in order to get a "favoured" boss have seen the other campers
It is like Spetty said some time ago - all guilds end up placing campers about to even the playing field or the system of how bosses spawn gets vahnged and I have no idea at all about how difficult that is
Is we speak as a collective voice we can stop getting bogged down in one homin's view

Good point Bina lets just do that.

Unfortunately camping is already allowed...

So maybe you ought to update your post asking if it should be forbidden and punished or not.
Indeed it would be clearer and we would be able to answer correctly.

Many thanks in advance :)

I require some clarity on two points first:

1. Are you telling me directly that my post incites hatred and resentment?

2. Do you want to permit players to make alts who camp spots whilst they themselves carry on doing other activities. (Thus far, I have noted you sit on the fence about it and prefer to nitpick and focus on other issues.)

And to further my initial post:
To me, Atys is, like the real world, a society of homins who can each form opinions about issues and express them freely. Well, what happens in the real world? The people voice their concerns and the leaders listen.

Well, homins have voiced their concerns, whether you like it or not. Just look at the poll right now and the posts that have followed, not to mention previous threads that also deal with the issue of camping.

The devs clearly have not addressed this sufficiently.

Politeness goes both ways.
Since you saw fit to respond to my original post with a paragraph including:

" love the game and hate cheating and unfairness. And that is the base one should work along, not starting blame games and pillory, inciting hatred and resentment, and splitting along guild or alliance lines."

You therefore aimed it at me, with my name proceeding, and if you did not, then maybe structuring your post better would not have lead me towards the impression that you see fit to place yourself in the moral high ground and direct it to me specifically.

I did not say you are naive at all, where did you see this from? I'm sorry but it you response doesn't properly make sense to me... but never mind). I stated an obvious point of what the reality of the situation is, whether you know it to be so or not and for others who may also not regard what I pointed out as very important to the issue of camping and linked to it in terms of supply and demand.

And further, if you state that you require "facts and data" I would have thought that you would have welcomed a suggestion to name and shame and therefore screenshot the alts together with those responsible for using them.

Anyways, your last sentence is precisely what I was saying in my previous post. Although you regard it as 'not real large group' when it is in fact a majority view. Let's not play on the definitions of words now.

Your accusation is and was absurd and paranoic. It was clear that I addressed your assertion that expecting and searching for a consensus among the playerhood were naive and working only in an ideal world. I did in no way blame you in particular for anything else you interpreted in what I wrote. I advocated that all should work along consensual guidelines instead of vilifying one another with the expectable consequences of split, resentment, even hatred. That was in no way directed against a single player but indicated the alternative to working together.

I "therefore" aimed at nobody in particular. Learn to read. Andis not calling me naive? What else? And you blamed me to be "preaching", so much about initial politeness.

As to the facts and data, I would like to see some. Where are the alts and their mains at the boss spawns I am passing every day? Where were the campers when I spotted bosses?

Btw. I do not know the poll result and who voted for A or B and who for not (A or B), and do not see one. I read a lot of postings here and not at all a waste majority confirming the alleged camping epidemic. And I know that few active players I asked are even aware of this thread.

Maybe you convince the CSR to change rules or the devs to program something. I hope they will address real problems and more urgent changes instead.

no option for MEGA ZOANNS! im disappointed :o}

Tell us of these urgent changes daomei. You talking about how mektoub killing was bad then went ever so silent when i asked you why..

Please ignore ***'s baiting, we will gather the thoughts of as many homins as we can through the channels of Kami/Karavan and civic meetings
Will those who belong to particular civilisations please bring up the subect of boss camping and gether the thoughts and feelings of as many homins as we can
You cannot "win" an arguement with certain homins so need to ask "What do I want my outcome to be?" and it will not include any homins in it

Don't know whom you meant with the ***, but I second your proposal, and particularly welcome to ask Kami and Karavan, all guilds and nations. Those who feel so pressed by camping should learn others' views about. This discussion is running in circles

Assuming she meant you. Everyone knows your views Daomei- it is to attempt to windup others and shove your view point down other peoples throats whilst completely ignoring what they have to say.

and you still once again havent answered my question. I can only assume you have no answer.

From what I understood earlier, I get the feeling Daomei doesn't really care about the issues as such, but cares more about the effect the issues have on the community.

If I understood that right or not is another matter.