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People are posting saying they have seen campers. This is definite. You disagree with them and say you "doubt" it happens. A definite vs a doubt. I am sure you must have a quote or two about that?

Ok. Tell me how you do tell a camper from an idler. And tell me why so many boss spots are free from both, campers and idlers, though a camping epidemic is alleged.

I do not doubt that somebody says to have seen a camper, in most cases he may have seen somebody, in some of them his suspicion may have been founded while in others not. In many cases the camper spotting may even have been hearsay. There are studies about propagation of rumours. In this case much words are made around very thin evidence.

A word to Elvanae about my naivity: Yes I believe that the waste majority of all players, no matter whether Kami, Kara, Neutrals, or Marauders, whether Asylum, SA, Seve Noire, or any other, are good-willing, love the game and hate cheating and unfairness. And that is the base one should work along, not starting blame games and pillory, inciting hatred and resentment, and splitting along guild or alliance lines.

People log alt campers on and off when they want to check a boss.. Have you actually been listening to a word anyone says? People have said this many many times.

How do you prove that allegation? I did not see such popping up and down players around boss locations during my patrols, and I look at people I meet, in every region, I frequently do /who (have a macro for).

I did not deny the technical possibility of such, but it would only work efficiently with heavy scripting and botting, and would not even be camping in a strict sense. Botting and scripting are already illegal, no reason to emphasize camping as outlawing camping would not change anything under respect of such practice.

There is such a thing as trust you seem incapable of. Such as trusting many people who have even seen alts log on and off right in front of them. You don't ever check all the boss spawns so I won't expect you to have seen alts. Stop harping on about how you have ever seen any alts camping when you never actually go check boss spawns its getting tiring.

Why does such a thing need scripting? You can log on 4 characters easily at the same time with minimal effort. You can do this quite easily with 12 alts and check the 3 regions most important to you within 5minutes.

Problem with trust is it can't be scientifically proven, a bit like faith.

Don't know about now, when boss camping it was more than just one person from a guild involved and several bosses where being watched for.

Faith is more dependent on a belief that something is real rather than seeing it first hand.

Is trust really that much different?

You trust someone under the belief that they're trust worthy. The difference is that trust is formed from what you know about someone or what you believe you know about someone, you can easily get it wrong.

Although we are straying from the topic now.

At next kami meeting Virg we need the input from other guilds so it is not just a small number arguing stuff with Daomei.
Homins who are camping and feel they have been forced into this in order to get a "favoured" boss have seen the other campers
It is like Spetty said some time ago - all guilds end up placing campers about to even the playing field or the system of how bosses spawn gets vahnged and I have no idea at all about how difficult that is
Is we speak as a collective voice we can stop getting bogged down in one homin's view

Good point Bina lets just do that.

Unfortunately camping is already allowed...

So maybe you ought to update your post asking if it should be forbidden and punished or not.
Indeed it would be clearer and we would be able to answer correctly.

Many thanks in advance :)

I require some clarity on two points first:

1. Are you telling me directly that my post incites hatred and resentment?

2. Do you want to permit players to make alts who camp spots whilst they themselves carry on doing other activities. (Thus far, I have noted you sit on the fence about it and prefer to nitpick and focus on other issues.)

And to further my initial post:
To me, Atys is, like the real world, a society of homins who can each form opinions about issues and express them freely. Well, what happens in the real world? The people voice their concerns and the leaders listen.

Well, homins have voiced their concerns, whether you like it or not. Just look at the poll right now and the posts that have followed, not to mention previous threads that also deal with the issue of camping.

The devs clearly have not addressed this sufficiently.

Politeness goes both ways.
Since you saw fit to respond to my original post with a paragraph including:

" love the game and hate cheating and unfairness. And that is the base one should work along, not starting blame games and pillory, inciting hatred and resentment, and splitting along guild or alliance lines."

You therefore aimed it at me, with my name proceeding, and if you did not, then maybe structuring your post better would not have lead me towards the impression that you see fit to place yourself in the moral high ground and direct it to me specifically.

I did not say you are naive at all, where did you see this from? I'm sorry but it you response doesn't properly make sense to me... but never mind). I stated an obvious point of what the reality of the situation is, whether you know it to be so or not and for others who may also not regard what I pointed out as very important to the issue of camping and linked to it in terms of supply and demand.

And further, if you state that you require "facts and data" I would have thought that you would have welcomed a suggestion to name and shame and therefore screenshot the alts together with those responsible for using them.

Anyways, your last sentence is precisely what I was saying in my previous post. Although you regard it as 'not real large group' when it is in fact a majority view. Let's not play on the definitions of words now.

Your accusation is and was absurd and paranoic. It was clear that I addressed your assertion that expecting and searching for a consensus among the playerhood were naive and working only in an ideal world. I did in no way blame you in particular for anything else you interpreted in what I wrote. I advocated that all should work along consensual guidelines instead of vilifying one another with the expectable consequences of split, resentment, even hatred. That was in no way directed against a single player but indicated the alternative to working together.

I "therefore" aimed at nobody in particular. Learn to read. Andis not calling me naive? What else? And you blamed me to be "preaching", so much about initial politeness.

As to the facts and data, I would like to see some. Where are the alts and their mains at the boss spawns I am passing every day? Where were the campers when I spotted bosses?

Btw. I do not know the poll result and who voted for A or B and who for not (A or B), and do not see one. I read a lot of postings here and not at all a waste majority confirming the alleged camping epidemic. And I know that few active players I asked are even aware of this thread.

Maybe you convince the CSR to change rules or the devs to program something. I hope they will address real problems and more urgent changes instead.