IDEAS FOR RYZOM

ok, so NH has been around for around a year old now, and the one thing i still here players complain about (no to mention my doctor for my carpel tunnel getting so much worse so fast, from all the excessive and un-needed clicking) is the fact that we still only turn in one product at a time.

i can completely ware out any NH system in about 3 hours (i did it in zora already more then once already)

a player can do 3 occupations at a time, with 6 grades in each occupation, and with the 100% recipe you get 18 products, let's do some math: 3 * 6 * 18 = 324
that means that i can potentially get 324 products a day from my occupations as a SINGLE player

so i can turn in only 35 products a day on my main toon, that's 299 products i have to wait to turn in, why? and taking about 20 to 30 minutes to do a full turn in of 35 products with many clicks (at the very least if everything works on the first click or double click you much click 245 times to turn in a full 35 products {7 clicks per product if it works right})

i know there will be 20 people to say that the limit is to help the game, and that only turning in one helps to cut down on farming of NH, well, for some that might be true, but there are some of us (many of us, though some won't admit it) that will create army's of alts to do NH, for the dappers (because the ONLY way to make real dappers in game is to craft for missions, which doesn't happen over night, since it takes ages to get the crafts up where they pay good)

the system without the turn-in limit and adding the ability to turn in more then one product at a time, there's still a regulating system, the ware of the system. if someone wants to use NH and tp around long enough to turn in 100 products at a time (or even the insane 324 that could be reached in a day of occ grinding) why does it matter? how is that game braking? (please note that i have enough civ points to get stacks of anything i want, i just don't really use them, so don't come at me with anything related to civ points, because gen mat's are not trade-able, sap crystals have insane weight in large numbers, the picks are kool but not trade-able, and cat's are worthless for anyone that isn't free 2 play, so that will stop that angle right there because that's everything you can get with civ points)

so with all that said, please change the limit of help we can give in a day's time, and how many we can turn in at one time, even if it's only 5 products at one time (with current limit or unlimited) that's many less clicks, much less computer related injury as a direct result of over clicking for something that can be changed.

and a note to anyone that is going to say "if it hurts don't do it" until they give me another way to make dappers that's equal to crafting missions, NH is the only way to make dappers in decent amounts. (i'm a jewel crafter, and there are no high paying missions for jewels.)

and like i said in a few other posts, as soon as someone give's me 2,000,000,000 dappers i'm going to keep going on about the fact that making dappers as a non crafter is more then just a pain in the ____.

(it eats me up that someone with high craft skills already has over 100,000,000 dappers and only plays a few hours a day, i play for at least 4 hours a day, and often as much as 12 hours a day, and i can't even brake 1/4 of that.)

Another thing i would like to add/ask for is a Cooldown Timer for our daily qouta. Having a timer could help us determine if it's not time yet, or if I have to start teleporting around to wear him out. For most Teleporting around is not an Issue, but if your fame is low, it costs you. And if you don't have the dappers then it's tough luck.

The things that i think would be nice to change/add are:

- Increase the daily Limit, even if it's only increased to 50 or a 100 is still good. Being able to turn in 35 when you get 36 from 2x100% occupation recipes kinda don't make any sense.

- Increase the amount we can hand in at once. Maybe multi choice? 1x 3x 5x 10x ? Pay out in bulk.

- Add a cooldown timer for the turning in, or just change the message we get to "You have helped enough for one day. Come back later." and "We are currently overstocked. Let me transport some Homins first and then you may give us some products."

Talk --

It has already been stated in another thread that the reason for the one mat at a time is to prevent an exploit.

The Occupations are *supposed* to be there to make items that are sold on the open market for people to use, not to be ground into dappers by hungry meks.

Some of the other ideas don't sound half bad, but it would be much easier to get dappers if the devs merely modified the resale price at the vendors, and that wouldn't risk breaking the NH scripts by modifying them. Of course we don't want to make it too easy -- then NH would stop working and as a neutral I have to say I love NH.

I do agree that the dapper economy is broken.

-- Bitttymacod

P.S. Even high-level digger crafters don't have billions or even hundreds of millions of dappers. That would imply that all they have done since the merger is do craft missions, and I don't think we have anyone doing that. As it is, it takes a significant amount of time to get up to the 5M that a GH in an outlying town costs, and no one needs billions.

i personally know one player that's already been well over the 100m mark (this player allowed me to hold their fortune to trigger an achievement that with our current system would take me as a non crafter 20 years to reach) and the didn't do nothing but craft missions, they dig, they've helped to create at least 3 jungle dig masters, the player has bragged to me about making as much 5,000,000 dappers (roughly, give or take 250k) in a single day of craft missions. (granted they did only the missions that day, and did each mission more then one time, but 5m dapper in 24 hours, i can't make that much in a week hunting and selling mat's on the market)

bittty can you direct me to the thread that says turning in only one mat prevents an exploit? i would very much like to read this, to try to understand how it could be exploited by turning in more then one product at a time (i do think that you should only be able to turn in one type of product at a time (flowers, maps, tools, water), but that's already in place) and i can't for the life of me understand how a player can exploit turning in x number of products at one time, since you'd have to have the item (which is a line of hex code) in your bag, and that quantity of said item couldn't be greater then the number of items in your bag.

as for selling products on the open market, i'll toss a few flowers (NH food) up there if, and only IF, i can make more then 10k per product that way, but since most players only use them to grind NH with, that doesn't seam like it will be a likely alternative to feeding NH myself. and with the 35 product limit, i have stockpile now of products that otherwise are useless (which is easy to do when you can get 108 products a day from a single occupation, 6 grades at 18 products per grade with 100% recipe, thus you have 6 * 18 = 108, then if you do 3 occupations that's 324 products a day)

another feature that could work into this thread would be to have a "roll-over" where if you don't do a turn in one day, that days amount is carried over to the next, and so on, so that if someone didn't do it for a few days they would be able to make up for the lost time in a single turn in process.

but thank you bittty and fyranna for your thoughts and ideas on this.

(if it was more profitable to sell my junk jewels i make during craft grinds i would do that vs just drop crafting, but as it is now, i can't even brake even when you account for price of tp's to collect mat's and take the crafted items to a merchant, as well as tools, both a pick and a jewel craft tool.)

Let us transport more places using NH too. This could increase demand on the system. Perhaps even between lands...trekking is awesome, but carrying around a ton of TP Pacts seems cumbersome.

I won't be against getting Transported from Desert to Zora for 50K!

I have to agree, the NH system needs tweeking. Maybe if you could turn in 36 items per day max, but be able to do it all at once, then have a 24 hr cooldown. I know you may have hundreds of Occ items to turn in, but they are not worthless! They are intended to be used yourself, and can be sold, or given to guildies for triaining.
  I also would like to see a NH camp put, or built by Homins perhaps, in each of the q250 zones of each region. Make it a Homin project where they have to collect mats or kill a bunch of aggro from the region so to make it safe for the camp spot (roleplay). That way it will be easier for neutrals to get to the q250 zones. It may be the intent of the Devs to make it hard for homins to be neutral, so they may be limiting this on purpose. It would be the only explanation i could think of for not doing this yet.
 Already an edit: I would like to add, i hardly do any crafting anymore because it pays so little when turned into the merchants. Many are craft dropping. What a waste! Maybe this can be tweeked too, the only time i craft now is to do dapper missions, there is little motivation to improve otherwise. I know i need to, but i hate wasting items crafted.

NH does need tweaking alot I would say my daily turn in of 36 mats a day is just cumbersome and half the time the damm NH doesn't work. As a pure melee char with some magic skills it's the only way for me to make some honest dapper and to get the enchant crystals needed to grind my skills. Not everyone is a digger and a crafter and for those 350k and 7k enchant crystals a day is a big help but it could be refind masivly.

I would like to point out that the Taliari have broken loose with dappers to reward those who do the supply runs around Aeden Aqueous. 10K per station, AND Fame points. AND an end result worth having.

Tried this suggestion through both available channels.. e-mail got no answer. Assembly suggestion was of course discussed for months before the final answer came in the form of "can't do permanently, only if a special occasion should require it". Maybe at some point in the future this will be re-considered ..
Eats you up that someone who has put in the time and effort to better himself is able to reap a bigger reward that you?

I know Ryzom is mostly a socialist utopia, with the limitless resources and so on, but player time is still a limited resource and thus someone using his time productively should damn well be rewarded. A sysadmin gets paid handsomely for what others perceive as "sitting around and doing nothing"; until that moment when he uses his knowledge (acquired through countless hours of work), knowledge no one else in the company has.

Anyway. Sorry for digressing.

not at all mj, i'm all about working my craft, as stated in another thread, but i'm a jewel crafter, one of the hardest crafts to master, does that mean that my work on jewels is worthless because there are no high paying missions for them? no, but it's not fair to a dedicated jeweler like me to not be able to reap the same huge rewards as other crafts, and to point out a fact about the player i used as a reference, he's been playing alot less time in this game then me, but choose the best paying crafts to do first as advised by a very old high level player, i want a craft that is very useful, and jewels in my eyes is the one for me, because i've focused on jewels for over a year now, and only have one over 150 at this time, and the others close behind it, since i'm not out for the typical over-craft xp most crafters go for, i'm putting in even more work then others have, because i'm keeping them all close together, so when you speak of time and effort, please consider these fact's, because i'm dedicated to my jewel craft, all 6 of them at one time, keeping them all within 10 levels of each other. that means that my craft is going very slow as a result. i respect the long work that some players have put in, but i'm not using over craft to get super high xp, even after cat's i don't brake 3k xp per craft, ever, does that mean that i shouldn't be able to enjoy a little wealth?

i've had other player's i play with offer to craft items for me for missions to make the dappers, but i would rather be able to do it myself, without depending on another player.

perhaps they could create token similar to the occupation token (hidden with no bulk) that you would get from the NH guy in each capital, that would then allow passage between lands, so that like normal tp's you MUST trek at least once.

(Ok, I'll continue this in a separate suggestions topic, too long to do it here and not quite on-topic. The gist is that jewel missions do indeed need some rework too, but I believe in fixing problems upstream rather than downstream. That is, since jewel missions suck they need a do-over, however I don't support modifying other game aspects because of that - NH payouts and whatever else has been suggested in relation to the jools issues)

Speaking of the proposed roll-over feature - I'm thinking of a sort of contract between a homin and New Horizons. That is, the homin promises to deliver X products within the next week (35x7); this replaces the daily quota with a weekly quota, you can give them all at once if you're that patient. If you meet the quota you get a bonus on top of the normal payment, and if you miss the deadline you lose a numer of fame points with the nation.

I was talking about the supply runs, but they are not based on citizenship. (The New Horizons ones are.) I know this because I am not a citizen and yet I earn fame and dappers. I've only done the supply runs in Aeden Aqueous, so I was not aware of any pay out in other lands. Certainly no one has mentioned it in the Forums (EN).