Citizenship & Guild Fame Suggestion - IDEAS FOR RYZOM

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#1 Added by Appletini 1 decade ago [en]

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Forgive me for my ignorance but I'm trying to figure out how I can best participate in RP events regarding the nations even though I've not declared myself citizen of a nation. Doing so I have some suggestions.

I'm undeclared and I can't declare citizenship because the mechanics of the game don't allow for an undeclared guild to have citizens. I don't participate in the assembly meetings because of this very reason though, given recent events I'm wanting to participate even more so that I can be involved and up to date on what is going.

Why not allow a guild to have multi-citizens? As an individual I should be able to raise my fame individually with the nation of my choice and not be limited by my guild's Civ choice. Guild fame and Player fame should be treated differently.

Here is an example:

When I first came to mainland I joined a guild because friends I met in Silan joined the same guild. When my friends stopped playing I realized I was not happy and seek an active guild - I found a great guild, active, helpful players, one with members that have enhanced my game play immensely. To be honest that's what one seek from a guild. Faction and civilization fame had no bearing on my decision to join a guild.

Here is my ideas:

Allow a civilization undeclared guild, yet cult declared, to have citizens of the nations aligned to the guild's cult-faction - but still keep the undeclared civ-guild to a 50 fame limit.

So a Kami aligned guild can have members who are citizens of the Fyros and Zorai nations, and a Karavan aligned guild can have members who are citizens of the Matis and Tryker nations. This will allow for members to have the options of declaring to a nation and be able to participate in the political game of their chosen nation. And this way a player isn't blocked from declaring citizenship if their guild happens to be Civ-neutral.

You might be wondering what happens if a guild with multi-citizens declares to a nation, what happens then?

Well, a guild can only declare to one nation, so technically it should be allow to gain fame with the nation it has declared alliance with, and keep all other nation fame at their undeclared caps. But their members should be able to continue to raise citizenship fame individually with the nation they've chosen based on the two options of their guild's cult alliance (as explained above).

What happens when a guild is neutral/neutral?

If the guild happens to be neutral/neutral their guild members should have the option to seek citizenship with all nations individually, so a neutral guild can have citizens in all nations but still have both cult/civilization fame' cap at 50.

The idea is to work around the current setting that limits or practically forces a player into declaring or undeclaring to a nation due to their guild's stance on the topic. Right now we only have option A or B we need an option C - we need options that can involve everyone.

~This is not a complain but my 2c on what I think would improve the mechanics of the fame system we have now~

#2 Added by Jarnys 1 decade ago [en]

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What about the Karavan-Fyros and the Kami-Tryker relations?
There are people and guilds out their that don't follow the guidelines of what most people do and the combinations above don't have any RP reason for being prevented (Matis-Kami and Zorai-Karavan are very hard to explain as their civ-leaders are their religious leaders as well)

And you can always participate in the meetings even when not part of that nation.
There are even some situations where specific people got (restricted) access to voting rights or other RP-only advantages of a citizenship even without the ability to join the nation because of their guild's alignment.

Just visit the assembly of your language-city in the nation you want to participate in and ask the official people (Event-Team chars) if what the possibilities for participation in that nation would be for you.

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#3 Added by Appletini 1 decade ago [en]

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Jarnys (atys)

What about the Karavan-Fyros and the Kami-Tryker relations?
There are people and guilds out their that don't follow the guidelines of what most people do and the combinations above don't have any RP reason for being prevented (Matis-Kami and Zorai-Karavan are very hard to explain as their civ-leaders are their religious leaders as well)

I'm sorry but I don't quite understand your point?

You are using a Matis player aligned to Kami and a Zorai player aligned to Karavan as an example? I'm a Tryker aligned (soon to be aligned) to Kami - using my example my options would be seeking citizenship with the Fyros or Zorai nations - the point is I will have citizenship with a nation instead of remaining undeclared because of my guild's civilization-neutral stance. Then I will have the benefits and titles that declaring to a nation allows.

And you can always participate in the meetings even when not part of that nation.
There are even some situations where specific people got (restricted) access to voting rights or other RP-only advantages of a citizenship even without the ability to join the nation because of their guild's alignment.

Just visit the assembly of your language-city in the nation you want to participate in and ask the official people (Event-Team chars) if what the possibilities for participation in that nation would be for you.

Good to know. I hope to attend the next meeting for sure. :)

#4 Added by Jarnys 1 decade ago [en]

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Appletini (atys)

Jarnys (atys)
What about the Karavan-Fyros and the Kami-Tryker relations?
There are people and guilds out their that don't follow the guidelines of what most people do and the combinations above don't have any RP reason for being prevented (Matis-Kami and Zorai-Karavan are very hard to explain as their civ-leaders are their religious leaders as well)

I'm sorry but I don't quite understand your point?

You are using a Matis player aligned to Kami and a Zorai player aligned to Karavan as an example? I'm a Tryker aligned (soon to be aligned) to Kami - using my example my options would be seeking citizenship with the Fyros or Zorai nations - the point is I will have citizenship with a nation instead of remaining undeclared because of my guild's civilization-neutral stance. Then I will have the benefits and titles that declaring to a nation allows.

That was meant in response to this:

"Appletini"

So a Kami aligned guild can have members who are citizens of the Fyros and Zorai nations, and a Karavan aligned guild can have members who are citizens of the Matis and Tryker nations.

You want to open it up but restrict it in an other way instead ;-)

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#5 Added by Appletini 1 decade ago [en]

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You are right - already restricted. My suggestions are to add other options. Options to allow a player to declare citizenship in an undeclared guild, a neutral guild. But at the same time keep the limit to guild's fame tap as undeclared to civilization.

Leaving the guild to join another guild that is civ align is not an option - I love the people I play with, I love my guild. I'm voicing my suggestions to improve the current setting. Can you come up with other possible options?

#6 Added by Jarnys 1 decade ago [en]

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After thinking a bit about it here's something that might work but won't make it too easy:

Any member (except the leader) would be able to join the civs where these conditions are met:
1. The guild leader has to be neutral or alligned to the same civ
2. The guild fame has to be at least 45 (higher than normal for civ alignment)
3. The guild has to be civ-neutral

Lets say the guild has 47 fame for the Matis, 46 for the Zorai and the leader is neutral.
Then any member would be able to either become a Zorai initiate or a Matis vassal.

If the leader then chooses to become a Matis vassal as well any member that was a zorai initiate will lose that title and be "undetermined" (same as neutral but without the direct fame loss) and can thus decide to either join another guild, become neutral or a Matis vassal as well. (at this point the guild could just as well align itself with the nation as well though)

This would make it extremely hard to get enough fame for more than 2 nations (try to get the guild fame up if the player fame is capped at 0) but still give the freedom of multiple members with differing citizenship in a single guild but without the restriction of cult or only that specific pairing of nations.

Hope that makes sense

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#7 Added by Talkirc 1 decade ago [en]

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jarnys, i like what your sayin, but one thing, it takes forever to get a guild's fame up to 45, i have the best solution ever:

NO RESTRICTIONS what so ever for members of a non civ aligned guild, kami/karavan should not be part of the issue at all.
simple, in favor of 'FREEDOM' for everyone, not restrictions for the players in a guild with no civ alignment.

i really want to know why everyone want's to make things so complex with the simple things will allow everyone a little more freedom and choice in game.

but that's just me and my 2 dappers.

i'm all in favor for non-civ aligned guilds to have any member aligned to any civ, because the restrictions of the guild really hurts the friendships of ppl, i'd like to be aligned zora because i live and paly there most, but can't simply because my guild isn't, and that's not right to force my guild to do it, or to have to leave my amazing guild and all my friends just to be "zorai"

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Remickla (atys)

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#8 Added by Appletini 1 decade ago [en]

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I don't think you understood what I'm proposing or maybe I didn't explain my idea well enough. I'm talking about civilization fame and the possibility of allowing a guilded player still have the option to declare to a nation even if the guild is undeclared.

Allow a player to declare citizenship based on their guild's cult fame - to allow a player to aligned to a nation aligned to the same cult as their guild. The guild's fame should not be increased if civ-undeclared even if it has members aligned to a nation.

Civ-Neutral/ Kami guild - A player would be allow to seek citizenship with Fyros or Zorai nations. A players civ fame can reach 100 but their guild's fame remains at 50 with the nation because the guild is undeclared.

Civ-neutral/Karavan guild - A player would be allow to seek citizenship with Matis or Tryker nations. A players civ fame can reach 100 but their guilds fame remains at 50 with the nation because the guild is undeclared.

Civ-neutral/Cult-neutral guild - A player would be allow to seek citizenship with Matis, Tryker, Fyros, Zorai nations, but their guild's fame remains at 50 with the nation because the guild is undeclared.

A player or guild can only declare to one nation - so whatever fame they gain will only be to the nation they have aligned to, all others remain at their caps.

But given the current fame system I don't think any of this is possible unless it is reinvented.

#9 Added by Eruv 1 decade ago [en]

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please also see my old idea post: http://app.ryzom.com/app_forum/index.php?page=topic/view/17338/20 #20

in summary i wanted two race per guild that actually is supported by the fame page

a fyros guild has fame caps of: 100 fyros 75 zorai 25 tryker and 0 matis
this is for the RP reason that fyros/zorai are allied in the lore and fyros/matis are opposed

so a tryker guild would have fames like this: 100 tryker 75 matis (allied in lore) 25 fyros (because fyros and matis are opposed in lore) and 0 zorai (because zorai and tryker are opposed)

However I am very saddened by the VERY strong negative replies i got. it is my personal opinion that many people playing ryzom for years are too afraid to change anything. they will strongly oppose any change even if it is a logical change if it will make them personally uncomfortable i do not believe it is always in the best interest of the continuation of ryzom, for their opposition. i am sure i am not the only one with this notion

many will say "leave it how it is i like it how it is" and i say to them, is this not a reasonable change supported by the current lore and game mechanics?

the logical counter argument to this is.... okay so zorai/fyros are allies in the lore for now but previously there were other alliances or other wars.... suppose you make 2-civ fames per guild and then the roleplay changes? my reply to that is, so WHAT? :)

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#10 Added by Appletini 1 decade ago [en]

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I haven't read your post but I will as soon as I have time. (right now I'm playing the game) Some people don't like change but sometimes things need to change to improve.

I agree with Talk on the whole subject, but I thought voicing some options would get some interesting feedback from the players.

#11 Added by Talkirc 1 decade ago [en]

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Eruv (atys)

please also see my old idea post: http://app.ryzom.com/app_forum/index.php?page=topic/view/17338/20 #20

in summary i wanted two race per guild that actually is supported by the fame page

a fyros guild has fame caps of: 100 fyros 75 zorai 25 tryker and 0 matis
this is for the RP reason that fyros/zorai are allied in the lore and fyros/matis are opposed

so a tryker guild would have fames like this: 100 tryker 75 matis (allied in lore) 25 fyros (because fyros and matis are opposed in lore) and 0 zorai (because zorai and tryker are opposed)

However I am very saddened by the VERY strong negative replies i got. it is my personal opinion that many people playing ryzom for years are too afraid to change anything. they will strongly oppose any change even if it is a logical change if it will make them personally uncomfortable i do not believe it is always in the best interest of the continuation of ryzom, for their opposition. i am sure i am not the only one with this notion

many will say "leave it how it is i like it how it is" and i say to them, is this not a reasonable change supported by the current lore and game mechanics?

the logical counter argument to this is.... okay so zorai/fyros are allies in the lore for now but previously there were other alliances or other wars.... suppose you make 2-civ fames per guild and then the roleplay changes? my reply to that is, so WHAT? :)

here here, i'm one of those that feel this way too E.

further more, what's wrong with someone wanting to be "the peace maker" (a title to go with the idea) and getting fame with all civ's to 100, how would that hurt to have a truely respected long time player willing to do the work, for the RP posistion of being the players that try to work out conflicts between everyone, oh way, we can't try to be like the Swiss in real life, that would make the game more like real life and less like a game (though we don't get a seperation from rl and vl on other things in game)

since i'm open minded and a supporter to anything optional i'm sure sooner or later i'll be banned, but hey i'm an american and love my right to free speech.

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Remickla (atys)

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