IDEAS FOR RYZOM

I believe that marauders should be able to BUY marauder armour or EARN the marauder plans. Since it makes no sence for marauders to fight marauder bosses it would allow the marauders to have the same advantage that the karavan and kamis have.

I also believe that it should not be tradable to prevent people from making alts and therefore transfering it just to get armour easily without actually having to face the bosses. I propose that the prices be the same as that of the plans at a cost of 8 million dappers therefore making it not tradable and still a very expensive piece of armour.

Absolutely against this proposal for a couple of reasons.

1. NPC Boss fights are a PvE (OOC) challenge, everybody is free to form a multiteam alliance, be it based on factions or not. No player is excluded from that oppportunity by game mechanics. Every player is free to find roleplay reasons for taking part in such fights - or waive taking part. Roleplay is not meant to grant privileges.

Roleplay is the only reason why marauder players may feel uncomfortable with NPC boss hunts. But the choice of any faction, or neutrality, may be made by reasons of RP, PvE, or PvP, or a mixture of all. Everybody is free to become a Kami, Karavan, or Marauders' follower for pure PvE and/or PvP reasons without doing or wanting any Roleplay at all.

Clearly, RP justification for marauders to bash the NPC bosses may be not so easy. Yet as the marauders only accept strength there is no reason why they should not test the strength of those NPC marauders from a different clan. And as marauders are assumed to are their own lawmakers, why shouldn't they define their personal rules accordingly? Or, if regarding it too inconsequential to do so, accept that one cannot have everything at a time?

2. The proposal means an inflationary spread of marauder armours among all marauder players. This would severely disadvantage those who are recently winning the marauder/Eroukan gear on the normal path.

The NPC boss gear is not that easy to get. Every boss yields 1 piece of armor, 1/4 plan fragment, and 1 craft crystal. With 40-70 participants per round and at maximum 4, not seldom only 3 or 2 armour pieces, plan fragments, and craft crystals, rounds canceled due to OP fights, holidays etc., it takes a very long time of continuous hunt until a smaller guild, or much more a single player will be in possession of a full set of armour, which means further fragments for 1.5 plans, and 6 craft crystals (not enough for a single helmet, vest, or pants which require 7).

A sound estimate is that an average of 100 to 140 full boss hunts per year *) are taking part resulting in 70-90 HA sets per year which are distributed among about 150 or so participants in about 30 guilds. That means that at best half or bit more of the regular participants may receive a set of marauder HA during one year.

3. It would be new to me that the plans "cost" only 8 million dappers (maybe the price of the expert for recovering the plan has changed after the merge). To my experience, the service of reassembling the 4 plan pieces cost 15 million. The 4 plan pieces had still to be won. Even 15 million dapper are easily earned in a couple of days, a full set of plan pieces possibly not or barely in a year of continuous boss fight participation.

4. Personalizing the armor is not a sound solution. Still it would remain a high level armor with outstanding values (parry, dodge, bonus). And personalizing the craft plans makes no sense at all, after all, once one lets the plan pieces assemble and learns them, they are personalized anyway. No mention has been made about craft crystals.


*) during 365 days, there are theoretically 182 opportunities to get all 4 bosses. In fact, only about 2 to 2.5 encounters per week are taking place, not all of them covering all bosses (Lixie, then Pei-Ziao most frequently waived or failing due to insufficient number of participants).

For starters Daomi it is an mmoRPG meaning a ROLE PLAYING GAME. Meaning that not doing role play is completely against the logic of the game in its entirety. Secondly, you state that it would not be "fair" for MARAUDERS to have their own armour - which makes entirely 0 sence to me. In the matis, fyros, tryker, AND zorai cities you can by their race armour so why not be able to do so in the MARAUDER CITY?

Next: with the marauder plan one just needs to get the crystals over and over again to continue to craft it, which either if it is 8 or 15 million thats still more than a ONE USE MARAUDER ARMOUR. It is not like one can buy the armour once and then get it over and over again for free. Next i would like to address the fact that MARAUDERS should have MARAUDER ARMOUR - it makes zero sence that one should not considering it is their own faction - look at the amount of trykers who have tryker armour. You are also stating that marauders do not have their own armour and that the KAMI AND KARAVAN do. So why would they have it and marauders not even have their own armour????

And given the dappers that you have suggested I would like to point out that it is harder for marauders to get dappers since they are unliked by all the races and cannot do their missions. This makes a lot of the tribes hate them too and not all of the tribes match what crafts the marauder can do. We can not simply go into Avendale and do the 400k crafting missions that are there.

Also, like you said many hunts go on all the time. But these hunts are preformed privately by the Karavan and if the marauders started doing hunts with Chanchey's group you cannot deny that less people would be doing them still. This makes it even harder to do the hunts that you stated above.

Also I would like to point out that being a marauder is harder than that of being a Kami or a Karavan, so wouldn't it make sense that the marauders would at least get to use their own armour? But you say that you absolutely disagree against it still.

Toak, let us not mix up things.

As far as you think there should be a marauder armor like there is a fyros, matis, tryker, or zorai armor, ok, I can understand that to some extent though I am not sure whether that is not going too far. Should there also be special armor skins for the other third factions, for trytonists and rangers, and if not, why not? And should not everybody then be able to learn marauder armor plans like marauders know zorai, tryker, matis, and fyros (and can learn them if they are able to enter the cities)? So generally, I am not strictly opposed against a marauder armor skin, but see many open questions.

But to emphasize again: A different armor skin is one thing, special armor with outstanding attributes given out in an inflationary manner is another one. To the first, I am not definitely opposed, to the second, I am.

As to the boss hunts, I do not understand your argument. Granted, some karavaneers, more seldom some kamists do their hunts though not always. If marauders would organize their own ones they would have to negotiate dates with others as karavaneers are doing with Chanchey's round recently, or risk quarrel usually resulting in failure for everyone. If marauder players would participate in the open round the share would be smaller for all, sure, but what is the point? That is the way it is, the largely visited rounds have smaller, but steadier yield, the smaller may have better yield but also higher risk of failure or cancellation.

As to the crystals, you need 7 for one set of ha to be crafted. If there are 70 sets of armor per year no more than 60 Eroukan armors may be crafted in the same time. If craft crystals could simply be bought, masses could be crafted.

And the money, well, marauder is considered a higher level challenge. But I could yield several million dappers a day in the scorched corridor, at the Fraiders and the Scorchers, both tribes not adverse to marauders (though Scorchers to all non Trykers). The Fraiders in particular have well paid missions, and the Zinuakeen is the most convenient TP in that region. Similar goes for Ancient Dryads and Sap Slaves in GoC, and in the 200 regions are good overseer missions, too.

I would like to point out to you from a role play point of view that marauders invented this armour in the old lands and i am not opposed to trytonists and rangers having armour that they invented. The marauders invented the armour with special materials that are not known to the regular factions - this would give reason that marauders can buy the armour that the marauders know how to make.

My point to the NPC hunts is that if a marauder presence is there then the other factions wont want to play with the marauders and will show up less and less. This would make there not enough people to do the NPCs such as Sergio and Pei.

As to your comment about the Scorchers and Fraiders not all marauders have the same fame. Some marauders have less fame in some things than other marauders due to base templates.

You say that marauder is a high level challenge which is true, but that does not mean a high level pike crafter for example would be able to make Q250 armour for certain NPCs which they actually have the right fame for.

As to your statements about the armour and how it is crafted i am well aware how it works - but seeing how it is a marauder invention you would think that the marauders would be the ones to use it. Due to role playing reasons - which is the point in the game - we are not supposed to kill Aen Pei and those because they are Melkiar's first commanders.

Toak --

Marauder armor from the Marauder NPCs has significantly higher stats inherent in it than the normal plans for Zorai (Tryker/Matis/Fyrk) armor, which are just skins on a single armor that can be made by anyone with better or worse materials for different effects.

Marauder armor is a skin, true, but it is a skin on a different base set, only achievable through PvE against the Marauder NPCs and beset with difficulties in obtaining that Daomei has pointed out and which you have acknowledged. To make it so much easier to obtain for Marauders (i.e. costing only dappers) is not balanced in terms of gameplay. Now, if the armor you propose can only be made with materials that are as difficult to obtain as the NPCs are difficult to take down, and with techniques that yield as few pieces as the NPC's do... Well, that's different than what you are asking for.

Your arguments about this being an MMORPG fall flat, given that roleplay is optional. If someone is so dedicated to the Marauder RP that they won't attack Aen, that is their choice. It is equivalent to refusing to craft Matis plans because they enslaved your Tryker ancestors, or to dig the easy-to-get excellent mats in Void because you are Karavan. It's a choice, and one that not very many people will make.

I find your comments on the boss hunts interesting, but then the people I hang out with would go for a boss hunt and not give a flying fart about who else was on the teams unless those people were screwing up the strategies. Are there really people who care about the Marauder suits who would not go for a chance at pieces because of Marauders on the team? If so, that's their choice, too.

Inflationary amounts of extra-ordinary armor will not be good for the game.

-- my thoughts
-- Bittty

As you have stated Bittty - the stats may be unfair - but when did i once state that the stats and to be the same as that from the NPC bosses? In my opinion I believe that the stats on my idea should be good - but not as rediculous as that of say Lixie or Sergio. As for the plans it could be made so that way only say PR mats are used or so on - I did not give any specifics and therefore my point probably came unclear.

I agree that the stats being the same as that of Pei is rediculous and I dont think it would be fair to get the best of all worlds - but it would be atleast nice to get the skins and to use specific mats or dappers to use so. I was proposing that the purchased armour be good - not rediculous.

(my emphasis)

That statement, to most people, would imply the NPC armor itself, not just armor that looked like it. You may not have said it, but that's the first impression.

Both Daomei and I have already expressed support for marauder skins on regular armor. However, purchasing? Trykers cannot purchase high level Tryker armor from a vendor; why should Marauders be able to?

--- Bittty

This post was just to state that marauders should be able to buy marauder armour which they invented. If the Trykers want their own gear like i suggested for marauders feel free to go make your own post about it. And you say that Trykers cannot buy "High-level armour" but as i recall there are some good ol' crappy pieces of q250 up for sale.

I'm just stating my own opinion that marauders should be able to craft and buy their own armour.

The fact that they invented it doesn't mean they control it. This, incidentally, gives marauds a RP reason to hunt the maraud NPCs - they stole and hold something all the marauders should have access to.

Besides, consider marauders are an organization, not a nation in itself. One is born a fyros or tryker, but one is not born a marauder; from this point of view, having readily-available armor plans does restrict their availability to marauders only, whereas a crafter can learn from all 4 nations their plans. What would happen when the person decides to stop hating, and stops the marauding? Would they forget the maraud crafting plans?

Btw, this has been tangentially discussed already in a much larger thread, which has earned a response from Tamarea: http://app.ryzom.com/app_forum/index.php?page=topic/view/16643/1

Remember - this was just an IDEA for Ryzom. The crafting plans may not work but for the armour plans they could at least make it so you need -100 fame in all - making it so people wont do it just to get the armour and then back out since -100 is hard to recover from.

And one's race may be Fyros or Tryker from birth - but their alignment may not be. One may be born Zorai but still be Karavan.

It's been discussed 2years ago in here: http://app.ryzom.com/app_forum/index.php?page=topic/view/8120/1#1
Pretty sure I asked it on a later date aswell specifically but I seem to have misplaced that thread.

I can see them implement a 'skin' for the armor or something but I got so much promised as a marauder on aristople that never came true that I wouldn't dream of them giving these armors away easy.

There are some roleplay things to take in account:
the marauders are several groups,clans,individuals, ... not all gouverend yet by one 'boss', when I and some others where building the marauder camp where I asked Akilia "Cinder" Ash Storm why some marauders kept attacking us when we walked to close to their camps and her answer was in the lines of 'not every marauder is believing in our cause and our beliefs' or something
=> so if these "marauders" that got these armors are not belonging to your clans, you can even see em as real a real threat, maybe they stole all these crystals (matoxia?) or the power to make em or ... > could even go the route of the enemy of my enemy is my friend and help kara/kami kill them


ps. I'm pretty you read the marauder lore on the wiki wich isn't much but still this one is a great read aswell:
http://atys.ryzom.com/projects/4/wiki/C_Stabre_Sicco
> Did Melkiar found the Marauders?
Melkiar…? Melkiar the Black Varinx…? (Sniggering) I don't think you really understand what Marauders are… Melkiar is only one leader among many. He proved through valour that he was a good leader in war, but we are a free people. Melkiar may lead the Marauders as a whole, but he has no authority inside our clans. We have remembered the lesson taught to us by our late, dearly-beloved leaders. We can't rely on anyone but ourselves.

ps. Since it's fairly easy to grind fame in this game you would see alot off ppl dropping guild get the armor rejoin guild and regrind fame since alot off ppl would like such an exclusive item. So the untradable thing wouldn't hold up

And I forgot something else your some tribes don't like you argument is kind of stupid I've grinded from 'no trade possible' to positive in a week or 2 with some tribes. There is always atleast 1 mission you can do from a wandering tribe member that gives fame so don't be lazy and do those missions you wont get dapper but after some weeks hard work you will. => you said it's a roleplaying game so play the role of a kiss ass trying to suck up to a new tribe and do what their outside guys tell you to do

You say that Melkiar is not the leader of the marauders yet he is - he is the War Lord of the marauders. For the rules of the marauder one must follow what MELKIAR says and THEN his cheiftain - making your arguement about Melkiar having no pull in guilds invalid.

Also - I had stated that the stats would not be as good of either that of Aen Pei Sergio or Lixie, it could be simple as a regular set of HA MA or LA. AND last i checked you are not a marauder still - you are in a KAMI guild, so why do you keep using the term "we"?

And for another point - if one is willing to do the alignment, get all the fames to -100, just to buy the incredibly expensive armour - thats a massive waste of time for something that - like i said - should be just normal. Plus to come back from the very bottom just for some normal armour would be a waste of one's time and dappers.

if i refer to "we" then i mean from back on aristople.
And yes during marauder rp on aristople melkiar was refered to as the boss but there was always said there are other marauder clans not folowing him when we talked about the npc HA bosses and this was the rp team talking.

Marauders are free ppl check some of the stuff on the rp site.
I can only tell you what was told us on aristople if they add different story's on the rp website then it's gl figuring it out.

I lived for some years by what was said on http://atys.ryzom.com/projects/4/wiki/C_Stabre_Sicco
but i see now they added http://atys.ryzom.com/projects/puben/wiki/L_BeingMarauder wich states:
"His lieutenants are Marauders known by the name of their exploits. Among them include Aen, Sirgio, Pei-Ziao, and Lixie. His daughter, Akilia Ash Storm," => so good luck explaining why they still attack you

ps. didn't know marauders needed all -100 now in the old days it was -50 all wich was a decent grind but could get it positive in a week or so again. -100 all fames yup hard grind to get it up again but if it still was -50 i would see myself doing it 1month and you are back with the good looking gear at +100 whater you want to.
ps2. it's a game guy everything in here is a waste of dappers and time

You completely neglect the fact that I had ALREADY stated the -100 in all, and as i have already read that you may also want to check your ingame lore too. Now is not -100 and infact -42, but like I said, I propose that the one who gets it needs all -100s.

As to them attacking us that can be interpretted in different ways - such as they are protecting their own territory.

P.S. This isnt aristople anymore.