English

Thanks Daomei, fortunately I 've read your post before finishing my own answer :)

Zhoi, you imply that I know perfectly something that I have been asking for all along this thread. You clearly imply that I am of bad faith in this whole thing, do you think this is not verbally offensive ?

You put the informations somewhere, this is not the same as to give them. This somewhere is entitled "Assemblies of the Circles of Hoï-Cho" so you can't reasonnably expect that someone who don't feel concerned by Hoï-Cho will examine each message in this thread.

I didn't tell about deciding what I CAN ignore, but what I DO ignore. This is not about voluntarily ignoring something, or someone, sorry if you misunderstood that.

Please excuse me to call you a Vogon, I should have waited to hear some poetry from yours before making my mind. (by the way, I hope the "Vogon" translated name is not too different, but see Galactic HitchHickers Guide)

Actually, if Feylin now chooses to take offense from your post, she may answer once more in a bit polemic tone, causing you to take offense once more, et cetera ad infinitum. I fail to see much benefit in for political RP.

There have been problems. in communication, interpretation, understanding, probably even in conduct against one another. I simply do not see that it serves anything to distribute guilt or put blame on anybody.

I can read, anyway, that the facts about the rank of a honorary initiate, and even the proposals of further usage thereof in Hoi Cho now are known and communicated, and accepted as well. I consider that a lot of progress.

Even if everybody assumes guilt, takes the blame, apologizes without ending, I cannot see that it would change the past. Is there no possibility just to say ok, that point settled, let us go forward?

Oh (just read Zhoi between our posts, Daomei and me) following was not meant to be ironic, but just a joke. I guess I rather precise.
Picking IC and OOC over and over again ? Well, IC this has been reciprocal, and though i started it (i know it very well), I have the feeling (not saying it has to be the only truth) that Zhoi did more in answer.
I only acted IC, and never meaning to be griefing, if so I would have resume our private izam messages exchanges. On the contrary I stopped because it was beginning to be too heavy for me.

Because I argued on the honorary initiate title, which your are the only one so far to have, I understand that you could have felt this a personal attack, but as i said earlier, my purpose was just to give my point of view about the title, and its consequences.

(if anything else, sorry but i have to go, no time to examine everything else on this thread)

Huhu, I just realized I made a translation big mistake here
And repeated here :
In french there is the verb "ignorer" that can simply mean "not to know" something, as well as sometimes "voluntarily not paying attention to" (more like "ignore" in english).

Now i understand why Zhoi talked about ignore list. My apologize for this mistake leading to more useless tension.

My sincere thanks, Zhoi, for saying there are also german jerks.

***Fades in the background***

hay ingy if no one mentioned the english jerks , (mentions) ta-da!
honestly the cartoon in the respect post is right, most of the loud people are jerks the ones who talk the most, the quiet ones are usually quite nice but you never know they exist so it's easy to feel like you are only surrounded by jerks =)

I guess it's pretty hard to do RP with a mute character, even if he/she is nice, and I guess political RP would even be harder if the politician stays quiet ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAA1xgTTw9w

Okay, it's time to exhume this thread.

Daomei, you are boring with your assumptions about me, here : double standards.
There is a difference between such comments InGame and here, in OOC thread, about me as a player.
Let me tell you something : each thing that you will try to make me change my way to play just tends to have me do the exact opposite, so just leave me alone !

Act in a roleplay manner if you believe it is right, or just keep your paranoid thougths for yourself.

Um... Feylin?  If you are commenting in an EN thread, it might be nice if further references could be included, even if in FR or DE so that those of us who are interested might be able to follow a reason *why* you feel that Daomei is attacking you as a player. 

Looking at the link you provided, I see no further way to figure out what the *bleep* is going on.  If the matter is one that is limited to the FR forums, then comment in this thread is not relevant.  If it is relevant to this thread, then allowing those of us who care to follow the matter to do so would be appreciated.

Note, I am NOT asking for EN translations of all relevant material, but rather that EN speakers like myself be pointed at least to the posting that we might put into Goo-trad, since the search function isn't all that good and the search function in a foreign language will be less so.

Thank you -  Bittty.

Post scriptum -- I found some of the EN postings (my connection at the moment is very poor), but still don't understand.

I want to shortly explain what I felt to be double standards.

Feylin expressed sadness about an in her opinion misfitting comment in the English forum "Events (Arispotle)". From the context (if I was wrong I appreciate standing corrected) I figured that the comment by Arfur was meant
#3

My mildly sarcastic comment about possible double standards referred to comments on the according French forum "Events (Aniro)" , in particular
#3

The latter was longer and contained strong accusations against the rangers' event and its participants.

I fail to see that Arfur's short comment was not in character and not roleplay. As far as the event announcement is seen as a chronicle article which must not be disputed (a notion I strongly contradict) it is true for both threads.

Therefore, either both comments are inappropriate or none of them. In my opinion both are perfectly on topic, and appropriate. That I strongly disagree to Ridditch's comment for a couple of reasons does not change anything with that.

So I indeed suspect double standards when attempting to educate Arispotle roleplayers while accepting the same thing with Aniro roleplayers, even under the identical topic. If it is boring, I regret.

What i guess is that you understand "comment" as "answering to the thread", this is not the same, at least in my mind.
I didn't think about Arfur's post only, but all the forum chat that followed beginning with it, and commenting the quote from the text. Thus excluding last posts from Salazar and Daomei, and excluding Ridditch's post as well.
[edited correction : Salazar and Daomei last post are discussing the same quote as well, and find no mercy in my eyes]

The title indicates it is a chronicle. The referrence indicates a long span of time for its writing. So it is more than probable that in the year 2574 that our character live in, this is not written yet, or at least not published, so nobody can quote a text that is not written and published.

Now the thing that make it absolutely clear is not available in the forum, sadly, but was written in chat InGame :
29/07/2013 00:47:24 * Tao Sian dit : [OOP: You can find the Tao Sian chronicles, writed in a lot of cycles, on your forum.. in a few minutes]

With original bad english language (we excuse you, french animator^^), let me correct like this : [OOC: you can find the Tao Sian chronicles, written a lot of cycles later, on your forum ....]

I take back the paranoid adjective for myself though. But who is not a little bit :p

First of all, i want to apologize for the (really) long post who will follow, who will be, as every long post, boring to read. I'll try to keep it as short and interesting as possible !

Before speaking about IC/OOC comment and the way to do them, i will do a quick explanation about IC/OOC.

1]IC

IC stands for "In character" (in french we usually use RP, for "role play"). It is everything that concerns your toon, as a living person. When Icus says to celiakos "oren pyr Abycus", it is IC. The only IC channel on ryzom is the around channel (everything on this channel is expected to be IC, unless you explain clearly that something isn't) : precisely, the standard speak and shout (/s and /sh), the action-emote (if there is something like "Icus bows to Abycus Zekops", your toon will of course see it), and the action-speaking emote (in a similar way, if you read "Icus turns to Bardor and says : what do you think about that ?", your toon will see Icus turning to bardor and saying "what do you think about that?"). I won't speak of though-emote and related stuff, there is already a thread about it (as a player, i think they are OOC cause i don't see how toon can read mind).

On other channel, everything is expected to be OOC ; but you can use them IC if you say it clearly to people and explain why you are doing this. Some examples : you can use tell sometimes (you are whispering to someone who is near you and people around you can't hear it : you do it in a private tell. They can hear you : use /em whispers to "YourToonName" : don't you think Icus is a fat useless fyros ?), and team channel (for multi-whispering in example ; or in hunt because of the short distance of /s, people moving a lot ... sometime i use it).

On the forum, there is one IC-section, which contains the event, roleplay, bazaar & guild registry forum (and the ambassade one on aniro forum). So everything on this forum is expected to be IC, like around chat, except if it's precised it's OOC. The nation / faction are supposed to be IC too, though they are often used as OOC (as long as it's explained, no problem). The event (ooc) forum is a bit special, used only for OOC stuff, so nothing IC should be in it.

2] OOC

OOC stands for "Out of character" (in french we usually use HRP, for "hors role play", which could be translated in "out of roleplay"). It is everything that isn't IC, who doesn't concern your toon. A server reboot will be IC ; if you says to someone "sorry, my internet connection crashed and i had to wait for relog", it is OOC. When we are using OOC in an IC-channel, we are usually using bracket/square bracket ()/[], eventually adding a "OOC" in the beginning of the sentence to be sure everybody understand it's OOC. In the forum, more or less the same, except you will almost always find the "OOC" indication.
To resume it shortly : what is said/done IC is what your toon think/do/see ; what is said OOC is what you, as a player, think.

3] Why there should be a strict IC/OOC separation.

There is a lot of reason to have a really strict IC/OOC separation. The first is : don't believe that what my toon think is what i think. Like almost any other fantasy (video)game, ryzom IS racist. You can play different races ; and based on your race people will attack you freely (the fyros/matis or zorai/tryker war you can find in the lore, for example), slave you (hi trykers !), have prejudice on you (you're a tryker, so you're an alcoholic), or disallowing you to do things (in the Lore, a matis noble HAVE to be a matis by sap, and it's very hard to be akenak/awakened if you aren't fyros/zorai).

So you will find racist toon, nothing strange to that. (my main toon is really racist, for example). But it doesn't mean that the player playing this kind of toon are racist ; and some people do the confusion. And playing with people that you think are racist is hard to do (well, playing or speaking or staying with them), because IRL(In Real Life) the racist thing doesn't have a sense. I've take a specific example to explain it, but this apply to everything : it's not because my toon hates you that i, as a player, hates you (as a player). So we NEED a strict IC/OOC separation to avoid this kind of misunderstanding.

Another good reason is what Feylin pointed out : immersion. I will take another example : you go to theater to see "Romeo and Juliet". If in the middle of the act, Romeo says to Juliet "There is no more light, i think the lamp just blew up", you will most likely find it awkward, and says "man, i'm here to see a tragedy, not you speaking about your lunch". This is the same in ryzom : when 2 toons speaks, you don't expect it to see in the middle of the conversation an OOC intervention. This is why we need to clearly say it (if someone come and says "i'm sorry spectator, we are having some problem with the light, please don't pay attention to the technician", you will understand it and this won't be awkward).

If you don't explain that your post (or a part of it) is an OOC-one, people will get confused. "Is that OOC or IC ? does my toon have knowledge of that ?" and you will have to step out of the subject, think of it as a player (and not as toon) : the immersion will be destroyed. Another thing is that if there is too much OOC post in a IC-thread, you will wonders why is it still an IC-thread ; so Event (OOC) is perfect for long, OOC discussion who won't disturb an IC-thread. But i'm the first one doing big OOC intervention in IC-thread, so i know that is it hard to put everything in the OOC forum.

Of course, the contrary is true : if you speak about the recent storm in Florida and someone suddenly says "And, awakened fey-lin, what do you think about the termit mound solution to destroy the Kitin path ?", this will be awkward too.

4] How to do a good introduction to an IC post

A single post in a IC-thread/forum isn't enough ; the most important thing when you use forum, is to explain (shortly) where the action is taking place. To let the player see if his toon will know about what is said in the post. If it's a private discussion (like the post from Riditch), it is better to explain that is it ; for example, "Eeri and Icus, alone in the building, were speaking about ...". In this case, your toon will definitively not know what it's said (except, of course if it is Eeri or Icus).

If it's public, like an letter (consider every letter on the forum as public ; if you need to send a private letter, send a mail to events@ryzom.com), just say it "letter from XX to YY" ; if it's a public sign, says it too (and say where you can find it) : "On the wall of the fyros academy, a new sign with the following text could be found".

There is a last case, the "chronicle one" : mainly used by the event team, it's main purpose is a sort of summary of an event. The action that will take place in the text was probably public ; so everyone can know about this part. Though, if there is some though part in it (like "At this time, i was wondering why the matis were so damn silly about this"), or private action, then your toon won't know about it.

If you look carefully, you will see that (almost ? but it's all of them ithink) every IC-text posted by the event team will be introcuded in some manner. You won't find a thread just describing an event, or though, or anything else. So please, do the same, so we can know if our toon can know about it :). But if your toon don't know about what is in the text, don't react (or at least, don't do it IC !). This create odd situation where people are answering to other people thoughts ...

5] A little note, about IRL and IG knowledge

I will finish with a short point ; i think this is clear that for everyone of us, no toon will ever speak about Jesus and christianity, cause homin living on Atys just don't know about it. This is obvious for a lot of subject (the historic one, especially) ; and so we don't use a lot of word in IC conversation.

There is, though, a subject where it is harder to make the difference between what we know IRL and what our toon (might) know : science. If you read carefully the Lore, you will see that the homin'science isn't really advanced, mainly due to a lack of good material (as Feylin pointed out, they probably don't have any way to see thing on a cell-level for example). So using words/notion like genome is strange ; in a similar way, things like "biomass" are more likely to be unknown to homin. So excepted if it's stricly necessary, try to avoid using this sort of thing :)

Don't forget too, that some things IRL can't be applied on atys ; for example, nothing says to us that the magnetism as we know is the same as the magnetism we know on atys (they are probably two differents things ; IRL magnetism is heavily metal-related, when there is no metal on atys ...). Don't forget it is a fantasy and magical universe, so things from here can't always be the same as IRL. (though there is of course some things who will be the same as IRL)

If you read until here, congratulations and thanks !

I think this particular post should be pinned at the begining of every topic in the IC section of the forum. Just for educational purposes.

+1.

Well, knowing that my little comment, in retrospect, found no mercy in Feylin's eyes ;), I'd like to point out that while the first comment to the thread should not be there at all, it does not need to quote from Sian Tao at all; it could be, for all it's worth, be a writing on one town blackboard commenting on current well-known matters, as it was not uncommon on Leanon before the merge, and most likely not on Arispotle either. So it might have been evil that Arfur started it, and that Daomei and Rollocks and finally me jumped on the band wagon (Me! Once insulted as an "RP Nazi" because of the strict handling of RP rules even into OP battles!) with own comments, but it is not damaging to RP, for all comments, lax or not, are strictly in an RP fashion. I imagined this as the mentioned public blackboard, to which Salazar simply attatched a signed note. You might have realised that I only commented on the discussion, not on Sian Tao's writings. Happenings like that, though, I often thought make RP a little bit more lively, for people join in, if for short, you usually don't read in the RP forums - and that is a good thing, isn't it? So I take that much more relaxed than Feylin and probably Icus, although the latter - quite rightly - suggested that the whole affair would not worth a mention at all if the first posting by Arfur had referred to, say, a public blackboard, as implied, instead to Sian Tao's writings. Arfur, of course, could correct that in less than a minute and the whole bunch of comments could be - if neccessary - moved into its own thread. Then, in just a whiff, any harm would be undone and the comments would still be there to see, read, and to add. ^^

Having said (or rather written) that, indeed there's nothing to criticise about Riditch's commentary in the French forums, for it's an RP account, taking place in private (and in thought). One could argue about the fact that it ruins the timeline to which Feylin refers - that Sian Tao's writings were from much later than Riditch's in time description - and that it should be in it's own thread; but that would probably be an effort to be holier than the Pope. ;)