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#39 Added by Zhoi 1 decade ago [en] 

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Once again: this whole topic and problem is NOT about only one title! There have been many differences between Fey-Lin Liang and Zhoi, and all of this trouble can never ever be solved by merely finding a compromise or agreement over a single title.

Also this "solution" is exactly what Zhoi vehemently refuses to do!
First of all - Zhoi already IS an Initiate. Not accepting that is an insult to her.
So why should she be forced to do a rite; since she has done much, much, much more to gain her title?
A "honorary" one, true, but Zhoi is still already a citizen and even representative of the Theocracy.

This title was approved of by the Sages; just as the title "Awakened" also is given by the Sages.

OOC this title is a door I hold open for other players who want to take part at political RP. We desperately need more political roleplayers. At the last Assembly in Hoi-Cho a Zorai living in the lakelands has shown interest in this title now as well. And so it has become even more important now to keep and defend this title so we can have more players taking part in political roleplay.

We have not set special conditions for others to obtain this title yet and what it should enable wearers of this title politically since there sadly hasn't been any interest in that before that. But we will now because of the interest sparked - of course together with the Sages, aka the Event-Team. Sadly we can say anything definite about this topic only after the Sages have approved of certain conditions. It will take some time.

Edited 4 times | Last edited by Zhoi (1 decade ago)

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#40 Added by Feylin 1 decade ago [en] 

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Thanks for the obvious solution, Luth, but it's rather something to discuss IG, talking about this in this OOC thread is just too close to forcing the player to do something, regardless of the roleplay. I can't agree with that.
I think you share this opinion too :)
You really want to annoy Zorai, don't you ? :p

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Fey-Lin Liang
Li'laï-ko
Talian-Zu

#41 Added by Icus 1 decade ago [en] 

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Zhoi (atys)
We have not set special conditions for others to obtain this title yet and what it should enable wearers of this title politically

I suggest this :
-Beeing able to destroy the national RP a little more by allowing non-citizen to participate in national politics
-Beeing able to get all rites, all NH free TP, be friends with every tribe, and a lot less GP restriction because you don't have the citizen rite.
-Beeing able to do this in every national meeting, because if you can do this in Zorai land, why not in fyros land, tryker land, or even matis land ?
-Of course, you can be a ranger since you have no fame conflict
-So you can theoretically rules all the national politics (excepting marauders, but is it really a nation ?)
Seems fair to me.

Last edited by Elikwasa (1 decade ago)

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#42 Added by Daomei 1 decade ago [en] 

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I would suggest to close this thread as it seems to lead to flaming and trolling only.

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Daomei die Streunerin - religionsneutral, zivilisationsneutral, gildenneutral

#43 Added by Salazar 1 decade ago [en] 

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Feylin (atys)
So this happened after the merge ? I thought it was something from before.
Now you confuse me.

I think that, while the discussion Zhoi referred to was after the merge, her own Honorary Initiation was from before.

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Salazar Caradini
Filira Matia
Royal Historian
Member of the Royal Academy of Yrkanis
First Seraph of the Order of the Argo Navis

#44 Added by Zhoi 1 decade ago [en] 

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Salazar (atys)
I think that, while the discussion Zhoi referred to was after the merge, her own Honorary Initiation was from before.
I have already stated that Zhoi has become an Honorary Initiate in 2011, on March 31st to be precicely; after providing services for the Theocracy and serving for an additional RL-month in a commissary position during which she has proved herself worthy of this title - and also as an ambassador at the same time.

However the "details" about what defines the title of Honorary Initiate in the future - now that we have Circles of Cities as well additional to the national Circles - were reconsidered after the Servermerge. Such this title has become a part of the new Server Atys.

Do not ignore the fact that the Sages - aka the Event-Team - will be the ones to decide about all conditions for this title, even if city-representatives / players have the right to suggest some. If you suspect that these conditions are going to be unfair and unresonable, then this is showing distrust of the Event-Team.

Again I want to point out that the troubles between Fey-Lin Liang and Zhoi are not merely defined by a title. So nothing will really be gained when the specific disagreement about one title subsides. This issues will definitely be solved in the future with the help of the Event-Team. But the fight between Fey-Lin Liang and Zhoi will definitely not end if only Fey-Lin Liang or rather Feylins player is being pleased by addressing all of his/her concerns.

P.S.: about the claim of Feylins player that he/she has not been informed about the title "Honorary Initiate" : http://app.ryzom.com/app_forum/index.php?page=post/view/108028 I have taken the troubles to translate the records/minutes of the Assemblies of Hoi-Cho to English and to post them on the English-speaking boards, thinking of them to be the "international" boards. Feylins player has read this thread and has also posted in this thread already.

On January 30th I have already announced there:
Zhoi
The constitution of Hoï-Cho will integrate "Honorary Initiates". This title can be bestowed on homins for continued services and efforts in behalf of the Witherings, of Hoï-Cho and/or the Zorai-government/s. The title is meant especially for native Zoraï; other homins have to expect higher hurdles to gain this title. Honorary Initiates will be allowed to vote at regional referendums at Hoï-Cho. They might even become speakers of circles; however only as long as they are born Zoraï - this requirement was demanded by the Sages.

Sadly no players ever cared at all about these informations that have been given, and during all the months since then nobody has ever clearly phrased questions about these topics.

Edited 5 times | Last edited by Zhoi (1 decade ago)

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#45 Added by Feylin 1 decade ago [en] 

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Believe me or not, but I didn't read this whole topic. It is supposed to be your local assembly only, and not speak about national matters. So I clicked fast on this thread to have it considered "read" and not shown in the forum.
Then, checking fast new forum message, I found your proposal about the organisation of the assembly of Zora and then answered.
Who are you to decide what i know and what i (edit) do not know (initially wrote ignore, bad translation) ? Seriously ?!

Hell, you act like a Vogon : plans for the destruction of your planet were available on Alpha from Centaur since 50 years ago, it's no longer the time to protest !

These informations have not been given, they have been made available in a blackhole of the forum.

Last edited by Feylin (1 decade ago)

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Fey-Lin Liang
Li'laï-ko
Talian-Zu

#46 Added by Zhoi 1 decade ago [en] 

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You know that this is highly unfair. And this is what I really hate - being picked on OOC.

Facts are:
I have already informed the other communities about this topic.
Not at all in a "blackhole"! Instead in the second (!) post in one of the very few political RP-threads of mine in the English roleplay Forum. And it is a thread that is still active and is permanently updated.
I have taken the trouble to write all this in details in English, additional to the German minutes/records.
I am trying my best to be considerate, informative, communicative.

You have not used the search-function of the forum even a single time.
You didn't care at all, at least not enough to even try to inform yourself.
Instead you have falsely accused me that I have not informed anyone about this title. You can see now that you have been wrong about that.

Instead of appreciating all the troubles I took you are doing the exact opposite: you are verbally attacking and accusing me again!?
This is why I hate having OOC-fights more than anything else.
IC between characters this would not pose any problem at all.

You are telling me that I shall not decide what you can ignore!? Seriously?! What would you say if I did the same to you, by ignoring everything you say from now on - using this same "reasoning"?
And frankly, putting you on my ignore-list is what I really should consider after your last post :(
Feylin(Atys)
Believe me or not, but I didn't read this whole topic. It is supposed to be your local assembly only, and not speak about national matters. So I clicked fast on this thread to have it considered "read" and not shown in the forum.
Then, checking fast new forum message, I found your proposal about the organisation of the assembly of Zora and then answered.
Who are you to decide what i know and what i ignore ? Seriously ?!

Hell, you act like a Vogon : plans for the destruction of your planet were available on Alpha from Centaur since 50 years ago, it's no longer the time to protest !

These informations have not been given, they have been made available in a blackhole of the forum.

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#47 Added by Daomei 1 decade ago [en] 

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Sorry Zhoi, I did not see that Feylin blamed you. But I am sure she has a damn lot to do with all Jen Lai stuff, guild, RP, normal gameplay and not to forget fun in Ryzom. Maybe she overlooked that because she had a certain opinion, view or impression, even a bit prejudiced one. We all happen to have that at times, you too.

Btw. I seldom use the search function either, I don't want to pick on the devs, but it is neither the best working nor the most clearly arranged. And have in mind that english is not Feylin's native language as it is not yours.

I read that Feylin has now understood and seen things not clear to her previously. Why the <censored> can't you take that as a starting point for a new beginning and improvement of relations?

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Daomei die Streunerin - religionsneutral, zivilisationsneutral, gildenneutral

#48 Added by Zhoi 1 decade ago [en] 

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You forgot the [irony]-bracelets, Daomei.
Feylin(Atys)
This is simply because you come and say hey, i'm honorary intitiate. Nothing more, and several month later we discover what this means, and because time has passed we(actually I) should have nothing to say.
You don't really think that I am able to bear interpreting a post in such an offending tone, Feylins players denigrating my efforts, accusing me instead of hinting at an apology or at least a concession, as an "improvement"? I have been picked on by this person IC and also OOC over and over again; and there has not been a single time s/he has ever taken back any offending thing s/he said at all.

Last edited by Zhoi (1 decade ago)

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#49 Added by Feylin 1 decade ago [en] 

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Thanks Daomei, fortunately I 've read your post before finishing my own answer :)

Zhoi, you imply that I know perfectly something that I have been asking for all along this thread. You clearly imply that I am of bad faith in this whole thing, do you think this is not verbally offensive ?

You put the informations somewhere, this is not the same as to give them. This somewhere is entitled "Assemblies of the Circles of Hoï-Cho" so you can't reasonnably expect that someone who don't feel concerned by Hoï-Cho will examine each message in this thread.

I didn't tell about deciding what I CAN ignore, but what I DO ignore. This is not about voluntarily ignoring something, or someone, sorry if you misunderstood that.

Please excuse me to call you a Vogon, I should have waited to hear some poetry from yours before making my mind. (by the way, I hope the "Vogon" translated name is not too different, but see Galactic HitchHickers Guide)

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Fey-Lin Liang
Li'laï-ko
Talian-Zu

#50 Added by Daomei 1 decade ago [en] 

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Actually, if Feylin now chooses to take offense from your post, she may answer once more in a bit polemic tone, causing you to take offense once more, et cetera ad infinitum. I fail to see much benefit in for political RP.

There have been problems. in communication, interpretation, understanding, probably even in conduct against one another. I simply do not see that it serves anything to distribute guilt or put blame on anybody.

I can read, anyway, that the facts about the rank of a honorary initiate, and even the proposals of further usage thereof in Hoi Cho now are known and communicated, and accepted as well. I consider that a lot of progress.

Even if everybody assumes guilt, takes the blame, apologizes without ending, I cannot see that it would change the past. Is there no possibility just to say ok, that point settled, let us go forward?

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Daomei die Streunerin - religionsneutral, zivilisationsneutral, gildenneutral

#51 Added by Feylin 1 decade ago [en] 

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Oh (just read Zhoi between our posts, Daomei and me) following was not meant to be ironic, but just a joke. I guess I rather precise.
Feylin (atys)
Please excuse me to call you a Vogon, I should have waited to hear some poetry from yours before making my mind. (by the way, I hope the "Vogon" translated name is not too different, but see Galactic HitchHickers Guide)

Picking IC and OOC over and over again ? Well, IC this has been reciprocal, and though i started it (i know it very well), I have the feeling (not saying it has to be the only truth) that Zhoi did more in answer.
I only acted IC, and never meaning to be griefing, if so I would have resume our private izam messages exchanges. On the contrary I stopped because it was beginning to be too heavy for me.

Because I argued on the honorary initiate title, which your are the only one so far to have, I understand that you could have felt this a personal attack, but as i said earlier, my purpose was just to give my point of view about the title, and its consequences.

(if anything else, sorry but i have to go, no time to examine everything else on this thread)

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Fey-Lin Liang
Li'laï-ko
Talian-Zu

#52 Added by Feylin 1 decade ago [en] 

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Huhu, I just realized I made a translation big mistake here
Feylin (atys)
Who are you to decide what i know and what i ignore ?

And repeated here :
I didn't tell about deciding what I CAN ignore, but what I DO ignore

In french there is the verb "ignorer" that can simply mean "not to know" something, as well as sometimes "voluntarily not paying attention to" (more like "ignore" in english).

Now i understand why Zhoi talked about ignore list. My apologize for this mistake leading to more useless tension.

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Fey-Lin Liang
Li'laï-ko
Talian-Zu

#53 Added by Ingfarah 1 decade ago [en] 

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My sincere thanks, Zhoi, for saying there are also german jerks.

***Fades in the background***
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