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#34 Added by Ingfarah 1 decade ago [en] 

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Well, then, I guess if only the french are guilty of anything... we'll just have to bear the cross and leave all those problems unsolved. After all, it's a linguistic community problem... No french guild has ever been fustigated by its faction for choosing the nation over the religion, after all. As an example of those things from which the french never are the victims.

Good night.

#35 Added by Feylin 1 decade ago [en] 

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Oh my ...

So this happened after the merge ? I thought it was something from before.
Now you confuse me.

But obviously, there was a mess : how can this be decided in your Hoï-Cho private german assembly and not ever announced and explained in the national assembly ? I don't think that i missed something like that, but this will be discussed IC, rather.

Thanks for your informations. (by the way, sorry if I didn't explained more what I expected, it was the case in my first written #20 post that has been lost, by timeout).
Having to accept a "honorary" title that the Event Team has clearly approved of for the new Server Atys, which is enabling more roleplayers to enrich political RP and leads to having more political representatives to play together with, cannot drive anyone out of a game.

I disagree, it can. Not because it allows more players to involve in political RP, of course, but this is not the only point here.

... I shouldn't end with this note ... erm, see you in game to sort all this out :)

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Fey-Lin Liang
Li'laï-ko
Talian-Zu

#36 Added by Daomei 1 decade ago [en] 

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Well. I think the mess and the number of misunderstandings is growing. As far as I understood, it is true that Hoi Cho may have more liberal rules for the city itself for accepting new participants. I did not understand and do not think that such can be binding for the national level unless accepted by all three communities.

With the title and function of Zhoi, things are different. Zhoi was official ambassador of the Theocracy before the merge, and most active representant of the Zorai community. As such she had the function of a representative of Hoi Cho after the fusion. And that is to my understanding what should have been respected from the beginning and had not been to some extent. That had caused irritations, but should be considered settled now to end the quarreling. Here especially Zhoi should moderate resentment and frustration, as there is no alternative to cooperation between the communities.

As Awakened Sartyrica mentioned (during the session at Hoi Cho and earlier in the forums), the original title has not been given lightly. Zhoi's function and title were earned by hard work, not just given for laxness.

Whether one should allow for more such titles for new participants in RP in the future and under which conditions is a different discussion. Personally I do not consider assuming citizenship as proposed by Feylin too high a threshold rather I consider a construction allowing even Trytonists to join Zorai RP quite open and reasonable.

I still hope for an end of the irritations and a constructive cooperation in the future.

Last edited by Daomei (1 decade ago)

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Daomei die Streunerin - religionsneutral, zivilisationsneutral, gildenneutral

#37 Added by Zhoi 1 decade ago [en] 

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Ingfarah (atys)
Well, then, I guess if only the french are guilty of anything... we'll just have to bear the cross and leave all those problems unsolved. After all, it's a linguistic community problem... No french guild has ever been fustigated by its faction for choosing the nation over the religion, after all. As an example of those things from which the french never are the victims.
Good night.
Never heard anyone talking about absurd things like that during political roleplay. And I never said "THE french" - instead I always made clear that I am talking about a small specific group of players and a small bunch being their self-acclaimed "leaders". Do not bend my words to make them seem rassistic :(

Also some Ex-Leanon-guilds have unusual alliances not regarding religion as the one and only factor of importance. And there is at least one Zorai-Karavan-guild that I know of, being very loyal to the Zorai, even though the few players left after the server-merge are not exactly fanatics in roleplay and have only visited regional Assemblies up until now.

Instead some French players were the first (at least according to my informations) to suggest to have all outposts in the desert officially lead by the Akenak and have all Fyros-guilds working together by political order to defend these outposts. German-speaking and English-speaking Akenak have agreed to that at first obligingly to keep up good relations to the other Akenak without thinking about the consquences. Fortunately the Sharükos Lykos remembered the peace treaties and prohibitted this nationalistic idea.

Of course I am aware that during Open-World-RP all kinds of illogical things will be said, especially concerning PvP and outposts. Sadly it is very common to use "RP-reasons" as flimsy excuses for inconsiderate actions. No community is without fault at this. And of course there are German-speaking jerks as well. Not to speak of everyone being human and of course making mistakes once in a while; me too.

Last edited by Zhoi (1 decade ago)

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#38 Added by Luth 1 decade ago [en] 

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One solution to resolve all this mess : Zhoi does the citizenship's rite !

All will be resolved in it, moreover we do see that Zhoi feels her like a Zorai, a proud representant of this people... so what's the matter ? Let's go to the rite !

And these she-zorais could fight them politically in the Witherings ! It will create a living roleplay which can seduce more people !

Luth who knows where is the door -->[]

#39 Added by Zhoi 1 decade ago [en] 

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Once again: this whole topic and problem is NOT about only one title! There have been many differences between Fey-Lin Liang and Zhoi, and all of this trouble can never ever be solved by merely finding a compromise or agreement over a single title.

Also this "solution" is exactly what Zhoi vehemently refuses to do!
First of all - Zhoi already IS an Initiate. Not accepting that is an insult to her.
So why should she be forced to do a rite; since she has done much, much, much more to gain her title?
A "honorary" one, true, but Zhoi is still already a citizen and even representative of the Theocracy.

This title was approved of by the Sages; just as the title "Awakened" also is given by the Sages.

OOC this title is a door I hold open for other players who want to take part at political RP. We desperately need more political roleplayers. At the last Assembly in Hoi-Cho a Zorai living in the lakelands has shown interest in this title now as well. And so it has become even more important now to keep and defend this title so we can have more players taking part in political roleplay.

We have not set special conditions for others to obtain this title yet and what it should enable wearers of this title politically since there sadly hasn't been any interest in that before that. But we will now because of the interest sparked - of course together with the Sages, aka the Event-Team. Sadly we can say anything definite about this topic only after the Sages have approved of certain conditions. It will take some time.

Edited 4 times | Last edited by Zhoi (1 decade ago)

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#40 Added by Feylin 1 decade ago [en] 

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Thanks for the obvious solution, Luth, but it's rather something to discuss IG, talking about this in this OOC thread is just too close to forcing the player to do something, regardless of the roleplay. I can't agree with that.
I think you share this opinion too :)
You really want to annoy Zorai, don't you ? :p

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Fey-Lin Liang
Li'laï-ko
Talian-Zu

#41 Added by Icus 1 decade ago [en] 

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Zhoi (atys)
We have not set special conditions for others to obtain this title yet and what it should enable wearers of this title politically

I suggest this :
-Beeing able to destroy the national RP a little more by allowing non-citizen to participate in national politics
-Beeing able to get all rites, all NH free TP, be friends with every tribe, and a lot less GP restriction because you don't have the citizen rite.
-Beeing able to do this in every national meeting, because if you can do this in Zorai land, why not in fyros land, tryker land, or even matis land ?
-Of course, you can be a ranger since you have no fame conflict
-So you can theoretically rules all the national politics (excepting marauders, but is it really a nation ?)
Seems fair to me.

Last edited by Elikwasa (1 decade ago)

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#42 Added by Daomei 1 decade ago [en] 

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I would suggest to close this thread as it seems to lead to flaming and trolling only.

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Daomei die Streunerin - religionsneutral, zivilisationsneutral, gildenneutral

#43 Added by Salazar 1 decade ago [en] 

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Feylin (atys)
So this happened after the merge ? I thought it was something from before.
Now you confuse me.

I think that, while the discussion Zhoi referred to was after the merge, her own Honorary Initiation was from before.

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Salazar Caradini
Filira Matia
Royal Historian
Member of the Royal Academy of Yrkanis
First Seraph of the Order of the Argo Navis

#44 Added by Zhoi 1 decade ago [en] 

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Salazar (atys)
I think that, while the discussion Zhoi referred to was after the merge, her own Honorary Initiation was from before.
I have already stated that Zhoi has become an Honorary Initiate in 2011, on March 31st to be precicely; after providing services for the Theocracy and serving for an additional RL-month in a commissary position during which she has proved herself worthy of this title - and also as an ambassador at the same time.

However the "details" about what defines the title of Honorary Initiate in the future - now that we have Circles of Cities as well additional to the national Circles - were reconsidered after the Servermerge. Such this title has become a part of the new Server Atys.

Do not ignore the fact that the Sages - aka the Event-Team - will be the ones to decide about all conditions for this title, even if city-representatives / players have the right to suggest some. If you suspect that these conditions are going to be unfair and unresonable, then this is showing distrust of the Event-Team.

Again I want to point out that the troubles between Fey-Lin Liang and Zhoi are not merely defined by a title. So nothing will really be gained when the specific disagreement about one title subsides. This issues will definitely be solved in the future with the help of the Event-Team. But the fight between Fey-Lin Liang and Zhoi will definitely not end if only Fey-Lin Liang or rather Feylins player is being pleased by addressing all of his/her concerns.

P.S.: about the claim of Feylins player that he/she has not been informed about the title "Honorary Initiate" : http://app.ryzom.com/app_forum/index.php?page=post/view/108028 I have taken the troubles to translate the records/minutes of the Assemblies of Hoi-Cho to English and to post them on the English-speaking boards, thinking of them to be the "international" boards. Feylins player has read this thread and has also posted in this thread already.

On January 30th I have already announced there:
Zhoi
The constitution of Hoï-Cho will integrate "Honorary Initiates". This title can be bestowed on homins for continued services and efforts in behalf of the Witherings, of Hoï-Cho and/or the Zorai-government/s. The title is meant especially for native Zoraï; other homins have to expect higher hurdles to gain this title. Honorary Initiates will be allowed to vote at regional referendums at Hoï-Cho. They might even become speakers of circles; however only as long as they are born Zoraï - this requirement was demanded by the Sages.

Sadly no players ever cared at all about these informations that have been given, and during all the months since then nobody has ever clearly phrased questions about these topics.

Edited 5 times | Last edited by Zhoi (1 decade ago)

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#45 Added by Feylin 1 decade ago [en] 

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Believe me or not, but I didn't read this whole topic. It is supposed to be your local assembly only, and not speak about national matters. So I clicked fast on this thread to have it considered "read" and not shown in the forum.
Then, checking fast new forum message, I found your proposal about the organisation of the assembly of Zora and then answered.
Who are you to decide what i know and what i (edit) do not know (initially wrote ignore, bad translation) ? Seriously ?!

Hell, you act like a Vogon : plans for the destruction of your planet were available on Alpha from Centaur since 50 years ago, it's no longer the time to protest !

These informations have not been given, they have been made available in a blackhole of the forum.

Last edited by Feylin (1 decade ago)

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Fey-Lin Liang
Li'laï-ko
Talian-Zu

#46 Added by Zhoi 1 decade ago [en] 

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You know that this is highly unfair. And this is what I really hate - being picked on OOC.

Facts are:
I have already informed the other communities about this topic.
Not at all in a "blackhole"! Instead in the second (!) post in one of the very few political RP-threads of mine in the English roleplay Forum. And it is a thread that is still active and is permanently updated.
I have taken the trouble to write all this in details in English, additional to the German minutes/records.
I am trying my best to be considerate, informative, communicative.

You have not used the search-function of the forum even a single time.
You didn't care at all, at least not enough to even try to inform yourself.
Instead you have falsely accused me that I have not informed anyone about this title. You can see now that you have been wrong about that.

Instead of appreciating all the troubles I took you are doing the exact opposite: you are verbally attacking and accusing me again!?
This is why I hate having OOC-fights more than anything else.
IC between characters this would not pose any problem at all.

You are telling me that I shall not decide what you can ignore!? Seriously?! What would you say if I did the same to you, by ignoring everything you say from now on - using this same "reasoning"?
And frankly, putting you on my ignore-list is what I really should consider after your last post :(
Feylin(Atys)
Believe me or not, but I didn't read this whole topic. It is supposed to be your local assembly only, and not speak about national matters. So I clicked fast on this thread to have it considered "read" and not shown in the forum.
Then, checking fast new forum message, I found your proposal about the organisation of the assembly of Zora and then answered.
Who are you to decide what i know and what i ignore ? Seriously ?!

Hell, you act like a Vogon : plans for the destruction of your planet were available on Alpha from Centaur since 50 years ago, it's no longer the time to protest !

These informations have not been given, they have been made available in a blackhole of the forum.

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#47 Added by Daomei 1 decade ago [en] 

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Sorry Zhoi, I did not see that Feylin blamed you. But I am sure she has a damn lot to do with all Jen Lai stuff, guild, RP, normal gameplay and not to forget fun in Ryzom. Maybe she overlooked that because she had a certain opinion, view or impression, even a bit prejudiced one. We all happen to have that at times, you too.

Btw. I seldom use the search function either, I don't want to pick on the devs, but it is neither the best working nor the most clearly arranged. And have in mind that english is not Feylin's native language as it is not yours.

I read that Feylin has now understood and seen things not clear to her previously. Why the <censored> can't you take that as a starting point for a new beginning and improvement of relations?

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Daomei die Streunerin - religionsneutral, zivilisationsneutral, gildenneutral

#48 Added by Zhoi 1 decade ago [en] 

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You forgot the [irony]-bracelets, Daomei.
Feylin(Atys)
This is simply because you come and say hey, i'm honorary intitiate. Nothing more, and several month later we discover what this means, and because time has passed we(actually I) should have nothing to say.
You don't really think that I am able to bear interpreting a post in such an offending tone, Feylins players denigrating my efforts, accusing me instead of hinting at an apology or at least a concession, as an "improvement"? I have been picked on by this person IC and also OOC over and over again; and there has not been a single time s/he has ever taken back any offending thing s/he said at all.

Last edited by Zhoi (1 decade ago)

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