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#23 Added by Eruv 1 decade ago Report | Quote[en] 

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hev i just wanted to say i have alot of respect for your prudence in editing your post =)

thanks

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#24 Added by Hevlaska 1 decade ago Report | Quote[en] 

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was only removing typos and some offesive comments.

However, here we go. This is what we are talking about.
Adiran (atys)



Here you can see there is supposed to be a max Limit for those resistances. Wich should not get beyond 31% Resist. However if you keep adding jewels with Resistance your Domain Resistance will get above those 31% wich you can see in the picture. Althought the client will not show it to you, but the real value will raise. And that you can test by yourself if you don`t believe it.

Edited 4 times | Last edited by Hevlaska (1 decade ago)

#25 Added by Icus 1 decade ago Report | Quote[en] 

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Hevlaska (atys)


1. First off - to do 1500 dmg in pvp you need a dual missile with time credit - the max you actually can do without time credit is a 250/225 spell.
One 250 nuke does 750 damage. With 100% amps (or 97%, almost the same), it is 1500 damage(or 1477dmg)
Hevlaska (atys)
2. WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT ABSORB -> NOT ABSORB IS NOT BUGGED, BUT RESIST IS !
And yet we are ; you are able to have a very high resist against 3 magic, so there is 2 domains where almost all your spells will do dmg. Tip : use poison spell, there is maybe 1% of PvP jewels with a high forest-resist.
Resist can bypass the given Limit of 275 wich is around 30% chance to RESIST a spell. ( pay attention im still not talking about absorb ) and if you equip enough jewels to get a total of 304 RESISTANCE (wich the client will not show you ) in one domain, it equals a 80+% chance to RESIST the spell according to that domain. Jungle = Elec / Desert = fire... etc ( did you get it now ... ?). now if you want you can add one 50% chance to ABSORB wich will cute the remaining 20% of the spells average damage by half. so the remaining AVERAGE damage equls 150.

so 304 resist = 80% chance to totally get NO DAMAGE from a spell
( i am still not talking about ABSORB, i hope you got that now)

so 1500 damage x 0,2 ( the remaining chance to hit ) x 0,5 ( an absorb for that spell wich you can see on the right ) x 10 (to show you that you need more than one cast in order to see the AVERAGE damage done) casts / 10 (in order to get the average damage PER SPELL ill divide it by 10 again= 150 ( average damage per spell)

1500 x 0,8 x 0,2 x 10 /10 = 150
Have you ever done a PvP jewel set ? If you have 304 resistance, you just can't have 50% protection in the same spell. Or you will have a spell with a low protection and a low resistance (except if you go for a prime/lake/whatever set, where you wil be able to get a decent protection too)

And don't use 10 spells, it just means nothing, in a probabilistic point of view. And using it the way you are doing it (*10/10) is just a multiplication per 1. So it's more like
1500*0.2=300(a little less, there is often some little protection in your high resistance) if you're focusing on the resistance
1500*0.3*0.91=409 if you're focusing on resistance (including the base 9% of resisting a spell)

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#26 Added by Casy 1 decade ago Report | Quote[en] 

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Tizona (atys)
Casy (atys)

You can not get "80-90%" resistance vs elemental magic.

You are wrong.
your post shows that you have clue what you re talking about.
Try it first before you write anything.
I tried it and i confirm it does work. [...]

I have a clue, yes, thanks. However i think you didn't mean that... just read icus' post for a more elaborate explanation, maybe you get it. there is no "80-90%" resistance vs elemental magic, only against some types of elemental magic, just as i said in the first place.

Combined with the red edit in the first post i can only conclude that you both did not consider limitations to jewel crafting. Bug reports should always be objective and not exaggerate the findings or their impact.

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#27 Added by Xatokar 1 decade ago Report | Quote[en] 

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"The natural resistance to magic increases when you enter a PvP zone."
http://forums.ryzom.com/archive/index.php/t-8930.html

Patch 2, part 2 of 2004

In order to increase, the cap would have to be removed in PvP areas.

Looks like this is by design, not a bug.

#28 Added by Tizona 1 decade ago Report | Quote[en] 

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No matter if you like this bug or not. It is a bug after all and those who use it have an unfair advantage over those who do not know it.

Edited 3 times | Last edited by Tizona (1 decade ago)

#29 Added by Nuno 1 decade ago Report | Quote[en] 

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Hi!

This "news" is old news. Most people that craft good jewels know that resists have no cap. It's one of the first "ryzom secrets" i learned.

The GMs/DEVs also know about it since forever. If they know about it, it's not a bug. (full stop)

Regarding the first post: you can only have 3 resists per jewel, not 5...

Anyway, without what most of us call the "resist jewels", magic would overpower every other skill in PvP. Mass PvP would consist of 2 mage pods bombing eachother 40m away. I'm fine with it, as long as it's the same for everybody...

Have fun,
Nuno

#30 Added by Auriga 1 decade ago Report | Quote[en] 

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Only that this bug is known by GMs / Devs doesn`t make it a secret Ryzom feature, what kind of ridiculous argumentation is that.
The server bypasses the values that are shown as maximum in the client, this actually is a bug, was a bug and will always be a bug, no matter if it`s known or how you want to call it. ... get serious

Edited 2 times | Last edited by Auriga (1 decade ago)

#31 Added by Nuno 1 decade ago Report | Quote[en] 

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Auriga (atys)
Only that this bug is known by GMs / Devs doesn`t make it a secret Ryzom feature, what kind of ridiculous argumentation is that.
The server bypasses the values that are shown as maximum in the client, this actually is a bug, was a bug and will always be a bug, no matter if it`s known or how you want to call it. ... get serious
The devs coded it on purpose, AFAIK. Yes, there's a bug, It's in the client that doesn't show the correct values while doing PvP.

There are many other cases where the correct values don't show up in the client, some that i consider more important than the jewel resists. But YMMV, ofc.

Regarding your (only?) argument that my argument is ridiculous, i find it ridiculous :-D

Have fun,
Nuno

#32 Added by Auriga 1 decade ago Report | Quote[en] 

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Sounds like you`re obviously using this bug on puprose and you seem to enjoy it, because it gives you an advantage over those who don`t know about it.

This is simply not fair towards players who don`t know about this bug and who dont use it because of that.

You can be considered as a "happy buguser" who doesn`t want to give up on his exploited achievement.


However i do think the normal resistances do work pretty well, even without exceeding the given values. I do have a normal set of jewels for pvp and i think they are more than enough. I have also seen those over resistance jewels in action and my opinion is that this bug makes it pointless to use magic against a target with such high resistances.

And yes, im not the only one who thinks like that.

Edited 2 times | Last edited by Auriga (1 decade ago)

#33 Added by Nuno 1 decade ago Report | Quote[en] 

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Auriga (atys)
Sounds like you`re obviously using this bug on puprose and you seem to enjoy it, because it gives you an advantage over those who don`t know about it.

This is simply not fair towards players who don`t know about this bug and who dont use it because of that.

You can be considered as a "happy buguser" who doesn`t want to give up on his exploited achievement.


However i do think the normal resistances do work pretty well, even without exceeding the given values. I do have a normal set of jewels for pvp and i think they are more than enough. I have also seen those over resistance jewels in action and my opinion is that this bug makes it pointless to use magic against a target with such high resistances.

And yes, im not the only one who thinks like that.

You continue with the name calling... I find it ridiculous, again :-D

(And now, to give you a taste of your own name calling) You didn't even read my post: i said i'm fine with a change of game mechanics. Does this make your whole post a troll? Well... YES!

You also chose to ignore a) that this is a bug in the client and b) that magic would overpower all skills in PvP, unbalancing the game IMHO.

Have fun!!
Nuno

#34 Added by Xatokar 1 decade ago Report | Quote[en] 

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I believe that the 2004 PvP patch attempted to provide as much balance as they could to PvP when they introduced it. Most Ryzom Patch Notes are brief descriptions of the changes, it is up to the players to discover and usually make the best use of the changes.

Considering the fact that a player may have weapon enchants on their weapon far greater than their own magic skill would allow, the increase in magic resistance in PvP areas is necessary for balance.

This feature also can be used with focus jewels to give foragers in the Lands of Umbra a little bit of added resistance to distant magic attacks.

#35 Added by Daomei 1 decade ago Report | Quote[en] 

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Nuno, one can defend that bug as a feature, but those who know the code know as well that a) it was not introduced intentionally to provide balance, but is a side effect from insufficient coding, and b) that it could be fixed.

I further on cannot buy the argument that this exploit is necessary or even helpful for balance. On contrary, it favors those guilds and alliances who collect most of the boss nails, spines etc. in question. Once more, PvP is getting more hierarchical, disadvantaging newcomers, and thus less interesting.

In case of the "horror scenario" that "packs of mages" could do what launchers do nowadays, this only would change tactics, probably allowing for more interesting and dynamic PvP, e.g. with dagger virtuosos incapacitating those pack by interruption and stun. Btw. such ele groups were still a perfect target for launchers.

Ok, not my business, just for the record.

Last edited by Daomei (1 decade ago)

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#36 Added by Virg 1 decade ago Report | Quote[en] 

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I have owned both sets of jewels- one set of resistance jewels and one pretending the cap was there. I wore one set whilst a friend wore the other and we had a lot of fights. If this "bug" was "fixed" then mages would be completely overpowering and tanks would be non existent.

To say this bug favors guilds who collect decent mats is just silly. Of course whoever can make decent recipes and collect the mats to make these well constructed recipes are going to have better gear. To kill the 210 and 260 mobs for a decent excel set takes 2 masters or even a master and a f2p (heck I have even solo hunted most of them).

I personally believe the values shown on the resistance should be fixed not the cap shown.

Oh and auriga it is possible to kill the people with resistance jewels using magic- its just a matter of thinking about it a little bit and forming tatics to win.

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#37 Added by Nuno 1 decade ago Report | Quote[en] 

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^^ what Virg said, and:

Daomei (atys)
Nuno, one can defend that bug as a feature

You can also say: that feature as a bug :-)
, but those who know the code know as well that a) it was not introduced intentionally to provide balance, but is a side effect from insufficient coding, and b) that it could be fixed.

AFAIK this "feature" is in ryzom for a very long time. At least 4 years, probably more.

Also, AFAIK someone contributed code that was meant to limit all the resists to 275. This code was NOT accepted. This tells me that the GMs/DEVs don't want the limit.
I further on cannot buy the argument that this exploit is necessary or even helpful for balance. On contrary, it favors those guilds and alliances who collect most of the boss nails, spines etc. in question. Once more, PvP is getting more hierarchical, disadvantaging newcomers, and thus less interesting.

Some players spend a LOT of time collecting good mats. It's not just for the fun of waiting 6h for the seeds to pop or run 40km scouting for bosses... :-D It's to craft the best possible gear.

I know it's not what you mean, but taken to the extreme, it looks like you want all gear to have the same stats.
Ofc the guys that search for tyrakoo get the uber HA, the ones waiting for the zun get the 97% amps. The same way, the ones searching for the jewel mats get the +8 jewels.
In case of the "horror scenario" that "packs of mages" could do what launchers do nowadays, this only would change tactics, probably allowing for more interesting and dynamic PvP, e.g. with dagger virtuosos incapacitating those pack by interruption and stun. Btw. such ele groups were still a perfect target for launchers.

Ok, not my business, just for the record.

The dagger virtuosos would be dead in 3 seconds... It would be harder to kill a gubani than a tank with boosted gear. IMHO that's why, after all these years, there's still no cap on resists.

(It was reported to me that a little before the wipe -- some call it the merge... -- the resist cap was introduced. At the time i was annoyed enough with the wipe news that i didn't even tested it. But i tested the resists after i started playing regularly again and there was no cap. So if the original report was true, it was reverted.)

Btw, i still don't understand why i'm beeing quoted. I was the one saying i wouldn't mind a change in game mechanics, as long as it's the same for everyone. That said, i also understand completely why there's no cap.

I think this topic needs clarification by the GMs/DEVs. If they do answer they'll answer in about 2 weeks, so sit back and relax :-)

Have fun,
Nuno
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